Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder?

Seder meaning the passover meal itself?

You're probably aware of this. In general,

EO---adheres to John's view, using leavened bread for their DL. The Last Supper was a men's get together the evening before the passover.

RC---adheres to the Synoptic view, using unleavened bread for their Mass. The Last Supper was the passover.

P---follows the RC modeling.

Without looking at your references, I do not think it could be a passover meal because there was no meat served that I'm aware of. I do not see mention of the four glasses served with at a passover meal as the Jews practice it. I also do not see use of unleavened bread nor matzah. However, the feet washing is a step above hand washing, something done as part of the meal.

I find interesting that the wedding supper of the lamb in revelations could be a repeat of the last supper.

I think it probably was a kind of Passover, but done a day early.

SolomonVII said:

The Synoptics seem to point to the Last Supper being a Passover meal; John doesn't.

Scott Hahn made a book on the Fourth Cup in comparing the two, although most historians tend to note that what is true for Jewish celebrations today most likely would not have been true for Jewish celebrations in AD33. The one link does tend to get into that part of the discussion. Moreover, even today there are a wide variety of different practices in Judaism.
Scott does tend to view Revelations as well as a description of the Mass. Certainly the Catholic Mass celebrates the Eucharist as the Last Supper Passover. Apparently EO does not.

Actual Jewish Passover customs then or now themselves don't seem to me to be the bigger problem though.

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What's the bigger problem?

Many of the key identifiers of a Seder meal are missing from all of the gospel accounts. The only reason anyone would think this is that it is called the passover meal. So, if someone invited you to Thanksgiving dinner on Wednesday night (something we are all extremely familiar with - eat lots of turkey, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, then watch the Detroit Lions play football on the TV), but instead they served you bread and wine and gave thanks as one should - what was that? They called it Thanksgiving dinner, but it wasn't in the traditional understanding of the term - although giving thanks was central to the meal, it was something different, something perhaps new.

Now, if someone told you this story, that they had this "Thanksgiving dinner", would there be any confusion on your part that it wasn't really a Thanksgiving dinner as we know but something else?

SolomonVII said:

Is the Last Supper a Passover Meal?

Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review

The three synoptics seem to suggest that it was, on the first day of Unleavened Bread. (Mark 14:12)
The Fourth Gospel has the Last Supper on the day of Preparation for the Passover” (John 19:14)

Which account is correct?
Or is the discrepancy more apparent than real?

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It is most likely either a Passover deliberately celebrated a day early or a Passover celebrated by using a different calendar.

However, there remains no doubt (from John's account) that Christ was crucified on Friday, the 14 of Nisan and died about 3 PM on the 14 of Nisan. Note that 6 PM would have been the start of 15 of Nisan, which resolves any confusion about Friday being the "15 of Nisan" (since Friday is both the 14 and 15 of Nisan per the Jewish calendar).

Kristos said:

Many of the key identifiers of a Seder meal are missing from all of the gospel accounts. The only reason anyone would think this is that it is called the passover meal. So, if someone invited you to Thanksgiving dinner on Wednesday night (something we are all extremely familiar with - eat lots of turkey, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, then watch the Detroit Lions play football on the TV), but instead they served you bread and wine and gave thanks as one should - what was that? They called it Thanksgiving dinner, but it wasn't in the traditional understanding of the term - although giving thanks was central to the meal, it was something different, something perhaps new.

Now, if someone told you this story, that they had this "Thanksgiving dinner", would there be any confusion on your part that it wasn't really a Thanksgiving dinner as we know but something else?

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Really? How are they missing?

Lk. 22:11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?

v13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.

You think they thought they'd have fish from the Sea of Tiberius?

SolomonVII said:

In my mind, the bigger problem is the scriptural discrepancy, be it real or apparent. I know that there are ways to resolve this either way, but Scripture themselves lend support to either side.

Customs come and go. Thanksgiving once was turkey;now it is turducklin, or tofu turkey for the vegans. and really the absence of a lamb is no problem in my mind, because Jesus identifies himself as the lamb to be eaten.

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Not at my house

The discrepancy has stood as a riddle for near 2000 years.

John was written later than the other books.

christianmomof3 said:

John was written later than the other books.

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Which means what? Luke says Jesus told John and Peter to prepare the Passover.

Christ called it HIS Passover... and it was a new institution the night before the Sedar meal.

The reason they had to take Christ down off the cross... so they could hurry to the Sedar meal.

We are commanded to celebrate HIS Passover.

Forgive me...

SolomonVII said:

Is the Last Supper a Passover Meal?

Was Jesus’ Last Supper a Seder? - Biblical Archaeology Review

The three synoptics seem to suggest that it was, on the first day of Unleavened Bread. (Mark 14:12)
The Fourth Gospel has the Last Supper on the day of Preparation for the Passover” (John 19:14)

Which account is correct?
Or is the discrepancy more apparent than real?

Click to expand...

SolomonVII,
The article that you posted can now be accessed here:
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...storical-jesus/was-jesus-last-supper-a-seder/

The same author, Jonathan Klawans, has a follow up article here:
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...-jesus/jesus-last-supper-passover-seder-meal/

Klawans' theory is that the Last Supper wasn't a Seder. While he writes

And indeed, according to the Gospel of Mark 14:12, Jesus prepared for the Last Supper on the “first day of Unleavened Bread, when they sacrificed the Passover lamb.” If Jesus and his disciples gathered together to eat soon after the Passover lamb was sacrificed, what else could they possibly have eaten if not the Passover meal?

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, he never seems to interpret Mark 14:12 differently. In the comments section, Gary Harper writes about Luke 22:7:

This states unequivocally that it was the Day of Preparation wherein the Upper Room was obtained, and that the Paschal “meat” was consumed at the proper hour.

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There seem plenty of reasons to me suggesting that the Last Supper was not a Passover meal, but the hardest obstacle for me to say that it was not held at the time of the Passover is Mark 14:12, which runs:

Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb, His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare, that You may eat the Passover?”

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For those who don't believe that the Seder was the same night as the Last Supper, how would they explain verse 12 above?

SolomonVII said:

In my mind, the bigger problem is the scriptural discrepancy, be it real or apparent. I know that there are ways to resolve this either way, but Scripture themselves lend support to either side.

Click to expand...

It seems hard to me to resolve this regarding Mark 14:12. It's hard to get that verse to mean that Maunday Thursday in the daytime before the Last Supper was NOT the day when they killed the lambs.

OrthodoxyUSA said:

Christ called it HIS Passover... and it was a new institution the night before the Sedar meal.

The reason they had to take Christ down off the cross... so they could hurry to the Sedar meal.

We are commanded to celebrate HIS Passover.

Forgive me...

Click to expand...

Hi, the Lord spoke of His great desire to eat this Passover if we understand why that might be it is beautiful. The Lord added that He would not eat of it again until it finds fulfillment in heaven. Everyone I know or who has preached or taught on it seems to believe that it found its full net when Christ sacrificed Himself as our Passover Lamb. But we have the Passover Lamb teaching it’s complete fulfillment will be in heaven. There is only one meal revealed as being eaten and that is the Wedding Supper of the Lamb.

When a wedding took place the Bridegroom would make all the promises that he would do for her. Then the Bridegroom places a cup of wine before the Bride and she signals her belief and acceptance of her Groom. The men came and asked the Lord why don’t your disciples fast when it’s time to fast. The Lord said while the Bridegroom is with the bride she could not fast. The Lord spoke of the time when the Bride would fast when her husband would be gone. The Passover is areal feast and in the midst of that He took the Cup of Redemption and placed before His Bride and the apostle signaled their belief in Him and acceptance all His promises. This is the Lord’s Supper served with a piece of bread. We, His Bride, are in our about 2,000 year fast and just about in most churches the Bride is still signaling in His return for her to take Her to the Father’s house. The fast looks like its coming to an end with the return of Christ. For His Bride to take her to the Father’s House for the Wedding Suppernof the Lamb and the Passover will finally be fulfilled.