JOSEPHUS-70AD JERUSALEM-CITY, WALLS, TOWERS, TEMPLE, SANCTUARY AND DESTRUCTION

LittleLambofJesus

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Titus sieges Jerusalem on Feast of Passover/Destroyer in Revelation

Matthew 24 Mount of Olives and Titus' 10th Legion on Mt Olives 70ad

==================================
THE PROPHECY


Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple. And His Disciples approached Him to show to Him the buildings of the Temple.
Mark 13:1 And He going forth out of the Temple, one of His Disciples is saying to Him “Teacher! behold! what manner of stones and what manner of buildings”
Luke 21:5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>

Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye, not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”
Mark 13:2 And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>
Luke 21:6 “These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
[Luke 19:44]

Matthew 24:3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us! when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and consummation<4930> of the Age?
Mark 13:
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be? and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be consummated<4931>.
Luke 21:7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher! when then shall these be being? And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?


"Ye will hear of battles and rumors of battles" 1st century concluding in Judea/Jerusalem 70ad
===============================

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)


PREFACE

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ; together with the impressive and terrific grandeur of the events themselves -- are circumstances which must always insure to the subject of the following pages more than ordinary degrees of interest and importance....................................
=====================================
THE WALLS AND MAGNIFICENT TOWERS

The prophecies of our Lord, as well as his miracles, were many, and of great variety...............

Of the prophecies which have already been fulfilled, few, perhaps, are so interesting in themselves, or so striking in their accomplishment, as those which relate to the destruction of Jerusalem and its Temple, and the signal calamities which every where befel the Jewish nation.
The chief of our Lord's predictions, relative to these events, are contained in Matt. 24 ch. Mark, 13 ch., Luke 21 ch., Ib. 19 ch. 41-44 ; Ib. 23 ch. 27-30 : and we may with confidence appeal to the facts which verify them as conclusive and incontrovertible proofs of the divinity of his mission.
Before, however, we enter upon this illustration, it may be gratifying to the reader, and add considerably to the interest of many of the subsequent pages, to give in this place a brief description of that renowned city and its temple.

Jerusalem was built on two mountains.
Three celebrated walls surrounded the city on every side, except that which was deemed inaccessible, and there it was defended by one wall only.
The most ancient of these walls was remarkable for its great strength, and was, moreover, erected on a hanging rock, and fortified by sixty towers.
on the middle wall there were fourteen towers only ;
but on the third, which was also distinguished by the extraordinary merit of its architecture, there were no less than ninety towers.

The celebrated tower of Psephinos,
before which Titus at first encamped, was erected on this latter wall, and even excelled it in the superior style of its architecture : it was seventy cubits high and had eight angles, each of which commanded most extensive and beautiful prospects. In clear weather, the spectator had from them a view of the Mediterranean sea, of Arabia, and of the whole extent of the Jewish dominions.

Besides this there were three other towers of great magnitude, named Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne. The two former, famed for their strength and grandeur, were nearly ninety cubits high ; the latter, for its valuable curiosities, beauty and elegance, was about fifty five cubits. They were all built of white marble ; and so exquisite was the workmanship, that each of them appeared as if it had been hewn out of an immense single block of it.
Notwithstanding their great elevation, they yet must have appeared, from the surrounding country, far loftier than they really were. The old wall, it has just been remarked, was built upon a high rock : but these towers were erected upon the top of a hill, the summit of which was itself thirty cubits above the top of the old wall !
Such edifices, so situated, it is easy to conceive, must have give to the city a very great degree of grandeur and magnificence.
Not far distant from these towers stood the royal palace, of singular beauty and elegance. Its pillars, its porticoes, its galleries, its apartments, were all incredibly costly, splendid and superb ; while the groves, gardens, walks, fountains, and aqueducts, with which it was encompassed, formed the richest and most delightful scenery that can possibly be imagined.
The situation of these structures was on the north side of Jerusalem. Its celebrated temple, and the strong fort of Antonia, were on the east side, and directly opposite to the Mount of Olives. This fort was built on a rock fifty cubits in height, and so steep as to be inaccessible on every side ; and to render it still more so, it was faced with thin slabs of marble, which, being slippery, proved at once a defense and an ornament. In the midst of the fort stood the castle of Antonia, the interior parts of which, for grandeur, state, and convenience, resembled more a palace than a fortress.
Viewed from a distance it had the appearance of a tower, encompassed by four other towers, situated at the four angles of a square.
Of these latter, three were fifty cubits high, and the fourth seventy cubits.

The tower last mentioned commanded an excellent view of the whole temple, the riches grandeur, and elegance of which it is not in the power of language to describe. Whether we consider its architecture, its dimensions, its magnificence, its splendor, or the sacred purposes to which it was dedicated, it must equally be regarded as the most astonishing fabric that was ever constructed.
It was erected partly on a solid rock, which was originally steep on every side. The foundations of what was called the lower temple were 300 cubits in depth, and the stones of which they were composed, more than sixty feet in length, while the superstructure contained, of the whitest marble, stones nearly sixty-eight feet long, more than seven feet high, and nine broad.
==========================

Isa 30:25
There will be on every high mountain And on every high hill Rivers and streams of waters,
In the day of the great slaughter,
When the towers fall.

Isa 32:14

Because the palaces will be forsaken, The bustling city will be deserted.
The forts and towers will become lairs forever,
A joy of wild donkeys, a pasture of flocks—

Isa 33:18
Your heart will meditate on terror:
“Where is the scribe? Where is he who weighs?
Where is he who counts the towers?”

Eze 26:4

‘And they shall destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers;
I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

Eze 26:9
‘He will direct his battering rams against your walls, and with his axes he will break down your towers.
Eze 27:11

Men of Arvad with your army were on your walls all around, And the men of Gammad were in your towers;
They hung their shields on your walls all around; They made your beauty perfect.


Isa 2:
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
12 For the day of the LORD of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up—And it shall be brought low—
13 Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are high and lifted up, And upon all the oaks of Bashan;

14 Upon all the high mountains, And upon all the hills that are lifted up;
15 Upon every high tower,
And upon every fortified wall;

Zep 1:16
A day of trumpet and alarm Against the fortified cities
And against the high towers.


==========================================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

In a short time, however, the walls of the higher city were demolished by the Roman engines and the Jews, lately so-haughty and presumptuous now, trembling and panic-struck, fell on their faces, and deplored their own infatuation. Such as were in the towers, deemed impregnable to human force, beyond measure affrighted, strangely forsook them, and sought refuge in caverns and subterraneous passages ; in which dismal retreats no less than two thousand dead bodies were afterwards found. Thus, as our Lord had predicted, did these miserable creatures, in effect, say "to the mountains, 'Fall on us;' and to the rocks, ' Cover us." (Luke xxiii. 20.)
The walls of the city being now completely in possession of the Romans, they hoisted their colours upon the towers, and burst forth into the most triumphant acclamations.

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"
After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers; Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory.
There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.
==========================
jerusalem 70 ad walls and towers pictures - Google Search:

jerusalem_model_israel_mus30.300x0-is-pid38915.jpg

Jerusalem_Modell_BW_10.JPG


Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com,

THE JEWISH WARS AND SURROUNDING OF JERUSALEM IN 70AD

.........................
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Jerusalem was built on two mountains. Three celebrated walls surrounded the city on every side, except that which was deemed inaccessible, and there it was defended by one wall only.

Thus they cut the very sinews of their own strength. At this critical and alarming c onjuncture, intelligence arrived that the Roman an army was approaching the city. The Jews were petrified with astonishment and fear ; there was no time for counsel, no hope of pacification, no means of flight:-- all was wild disorder and perplexity :- nothing was to be heard but "the confused noise of the warrior, " -- nothing to be seen but garments rolled in blood," -- nothing to be expected from the Romans but signal and exemplary vengeance........... Such was the horrible condition of the place when Titus and his army presented themselves, and encamped before Jerusalem ; but, alas ! not to deliver it from its miseries but to fulfill the prediction, and vindicate the benevolent warning of our Lord :

While famine continued thus to spread its destructive rage through the city, the Romans, after many ineffectual attempts, at length succeeded in demolishing part of the inner wall, possessed themselves of the great tower of Antonia, and advanced towards the Temple, which Titus, in a council of war had determined to preserve as an ornament to the empire, and as a monument of his success ; but the Almighty had determined otherwise ; for now, in the revolution of ages, was arrived that fatal day, (the 10th of 8th mo.) emphatically called " a day of vengeance," (Luke xxi. 21.) on which the Temple bad formerly been destroyed by the king of Babylon.
-------------------------------
Titus' Siege of Jerusalem - Livius
The city as a whole consisted of four parts.
  • The Old Town was situated on a steep plateau in the south; its walls, which faced the Valley of Hinnom in the west and south, were old but almost impossible to assail. Here, Simon was in charge; he commanded 10,000 Jewish warriors and 5,000 Idumeans.
  • In the east was the Temple complex, occupied by Eleaser's Zealots, 2,400 in number, but since the Passover massacre, they were controled by John. This inner bulwark was next to the Kidron ravine, which prevented any attack. Part of the Temple complex was a lofty castle called Antonia.
  • West of the Temple complex was the New Town, which had walls of its own, built in the forties. It was occupied by the 6,000 men of John's militia.
  • More to the north was a quarter named Bezetha (which also means New Town). Bezetha had only recently been added to the city; it had not many inhabitants and old graves could still be seen between the houses. Since the siege started at Passover, half a million pilgrims were trapped inside the city, and were forced to live in tents in Bezetha. Its walls were high and a series of sixty feet high towers dominated the scene, but for the Romans there was at least one advantage: there was no valley in front of them. It was the logical place to attack Jerusalem.
======================================
FIGHT FOR THE WALLS

.......................
 
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nolidad

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Isa 32:14
Because the palaces will be forsaken, The bustling city will be deserted.
The forts and towers will become lairs forever,
A joy of wild donkeys, a pasture of flocks—

Isa 33:18

Well this hasn't happened yet!

So when did the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel stand in the holy place?

When did Jews flee to Petra after that?

Are you really saying the murder of teh 1.2 million Jews is and will be the worst tribulation teh world saw and will ever see?

Teh six million Jews murderd in WW 2 and the 22.5 million killed and Two continents nearly destroyed was not as bad?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Well this hasn't happened yet!
So when did the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel stand in the holy place?
When did Jews flee to Petra after that?
Are you really saying the murder of teh 1.2 million Jews is and will be the worst tribulation teh world saw and will ever see?Teh six million Jews murderd in WW 2 and the 22.5 million killed and Two continents nearly destroyed was not as bad?
You can discuss that on the plethora of threads on CF concerning the WW2 Holocaust
God ordained the destruction and holocaust of 70ad.................

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&source=hp&ei=2wlsXYi3BI7AsAXc46XgDQ&q=holocaust+christian+forums+site:www.christianforums.com&oq=holocaust&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.35i39l2j0l8.2041.4765..8795...0.0..0.1349.5439.1j2j1j7-4......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i131.nYAokaKR7uc

A discussion going on concerning the holocaust:
Everyone should be watching developments in Israel


The Holocaust: Was it the wrath and judgment of God?
Was Gods punishing the Jews because in the holocaust because they killed? Jesus
WHY did God allow Jews to suffer the Holocaust?
neo nazi get arrested for saying "Holocaust is hoax and all jews are liars"
Oh oh...Did God ordain the Holocaust?
 
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nolidad

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Well I am not debating teh horrors of WW 2 and the holocaust, I am asking you directly if they were worse than the events of 66-70 AD.

YOu declare that the Titus siege and destruction of Jerusaslem fulfilled:

Matt. 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

I asked you who was the abomination of desolation Jesus warned of

Do you believe that the destruction of Jerusalem was and is the worst tribulation the world will ever see?

Please answer those!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Well I am not debating teh horrors of WW 2 and the holocaust, I am asking you directly if they were worse than the events of 66-70 AD.

YOu declare that the Titus siege and destruction of Jerusaslem fulfilled:
Please answer those!
We will have to wait till we get to that part of Josephus.

1st century Jerusalem is that great City/harlot/Queen in Revelation. Just ask the Jews......

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Luke 19:
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side. 44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Luke 21:

5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly<2570> stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.Shall be coming days in which
not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>

Matthew 23:

35 - “that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! your House is being left to desolate<2048>

Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! Your House is being left desolate<2048>,

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her,
that to one hour She was desolated/hrhmwqh <2049> (5681)

===================================
302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg


Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE) - Wikipedia

Titus began his siege a few days before Passover, surrounding the city, with three legions (V Macedonica, XII Fulminata, XV Apollinaris) on the western side
and a fourth (X Fretensis) on the Mount of Olives to the east.
If the reference in his Jewish War at 6:421 is to Titus' siege, though difficulties exist with its interpretation, then at the time, according to Josephus, Jerusalem was thronged with many people who had come to celebrate Passover.[

302812_bd3c4a55a2acc9d0f36c50211f02864f.jpg
 
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Vicky gould

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We will have to wait till we get to that part of Josephus.

1st century Jerusalem is that great City/harlot/Queen in Revelation. Just ask the Jews......

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Luke 19:
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side. 44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Luke 21:

5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly<2570> stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.Shall be coming days in which
not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>

Matthew 23:

35 - “that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! your House is being left to desolate<2048>

Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! Your House is being left desolate<2048>,

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her,
that to one hour She was desolated/hrhmwqh <2049> (5681)

===================================
302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg


Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE) - Wikipedia

Titus began his siege a few days before Passover, surrounding the city, with three legions (V Macedonica, XII Fulminata, XV Apollinaris) on the western side
and a fourth (X Fretensis) on the Mount of Olives to the east.
If the reference in his Jewish War at 6:421 is to Titus' siege, though difficulties exist with its interpretation, then at the time, according to Josephus, Jerusalem was thronged with many people who had come to celebrate Passover.[

302812_bd3c4a55a2acc9d0f36c50211f02864f.jpg

Just to be clear in my own mind. Josephus tells us that not every stone was cast or throne down as foretold by the Lord. Josephus records that many stones fell because of the fires set by the Roman soldiers.

Also I was under the impression the word the Lord used meant the entire temple complex in which case the Western/ Wailing wall would have been destroyed by the Roman army instead of a bivouac site.
 
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nolidad

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We will have to wait till we get to that part of Josephus.

1st century Jerusalem is that great City/harlot/Queen in Revelation. Just ask the Jews......

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Luke 19:
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side. 44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

Luke 21:

5 and of some saying concerning the Temple, that to goodly<2570> stones and votive-offerings<334> it has been adorned<2885>
6 “These which ye are beholding.Shall be coming days in which
not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>

Matthew 23:

35 - “that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
37 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
38 Behold! your House is being left to desolate<2048>

Luke 13:
34 - “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Behold! Your House is being left desolate<2048>,

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried out, lamenting and mourning, saying "woe! woe! the City, the great, in which are rich all the ones having the ships in the sea out of the preciousness of Her,
that to one hour She was desolated/hrhmwqh <2049> (5681)

===================================
302660_c2760f5cc7d57e7088338ce451af705b.jpg


Siege of Jerusalem (70 CE) - Wikipedia

Titus began his siege a few days before Passover, surrounding the city, with three legions (V Macedonica, XII Fulminata, XV Apollinaris) on the western side
and a fourth (X Fretensis) on the Mount of Olives to the east.
If the reference in his Jewish War at 6:421 is to Titus' siege, though difficulties exist with its interpretation, then at the time, according to Josephus, Jerusalem was thronged with many people who had come to celebrate Passover.[

302812_bd3c4a55a2acc9d0f36c50211f02864f.jpg

Well I have read Josephus- have His book. I am asking you! BTW do you have permission to recopy his book here page by page???

Also you err in your comparison of the destruction of Jerusalem with the destruction of Babylon the great in Revelation 18: 19.

vses 10:19

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

this does not describe Jerusalem in 66-70 AD any where close!
 
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Vicky gould

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Well I have read Josephus- have His book. I am asking you! BTW do you have permission to recopy his book here page by page???

Also you err in your comparison of the destruction of Jerusalem with the destruction of Babylon the great in Revelation 18: 19.

vses 10:19

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16 And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

this does not describe Jerusalem in 66-70 AD any where close!
mainly because it did not happen in 70 a.d. it will not b fulfilled until anti-Christ has come. But that is what happens if we turn prophecy that has clearly not been fulfilled. It then becomes a woefully inaccurate history book.

Identity of the Great City where the final two witnesses are slain is the same city where their Lord was crucified. Nowhere between the here and the great city mystery Babylon are we told the identity has changed. We are then told the three spiritual conditions of the great spiritual Sodom, Egypt and Babylon. This is the spiritual condition of the city of Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord. Read the prophecies Isaiah 1- 5 that take place when the Lord comes in His Splendor and it has to do with nothing but the apostate condition she is in. She will have amassed great wealth, power etc. This wealth will have been acquired when anti-Christ is present and no man may buy or self without his mark. Maybe he makes an exception for Israel?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Also you err in your comparison of the destruction of Jerusalem with the destruction of Babylon the great in Revelation 18: 19.
vses 10:19
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
this does not describe Jerusalem in 66-70 AD any where close!
You are of course entititled to your own view and opinion.

I have Reve17, 18 and 19 on this thread.

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19


A thread on 70ad Jerusalem.
Josephus, Olivet Discourse and Revelation go together like white on rice........

Is the GREAT CITY in Revelation symbolizing the LAKE OF FIRE?

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD


The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover
Nevertheless, the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison, preparatory to the execution of the Divine vengeance ; and, according to Josephus this event took place suddenly ; thus, not only fulfilling the predictions of our LORD, that these calamities should come, like the swift-darting lightning" that cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the West," and " as a snare on all of them (the Jews) who dwelt upon the face of the whole earth " (Matt. xxiv. 27, and Luke xxi 35,).............

Finding it impossible to restrain the impetuosity and cruelty of his soldiers, the Commander in chief proceeded, with some of his superior officers, to take a survey of those parts of the edifice which were still uninjured by the conflagration.,,,,,,,,,,,,Meanwhile the Temple continued burning, until at length, vast as was its size, the flames completely enveloped the, whole building; which, from the extent of the conflagration, impressed the distant spectator with an idea that the whole city was now on fire. The tumult and disorder which ensued upon this event, it is impossible (says Josephus) for language to describe. The Roman legions made the most horrid outcries ; the rebels, finding themselves exposed to the fury of both fire and sword, screamed dreadfully ; while the unhappy people who were pent up between the enemy and the flames, deplored their situation in the most pitiable complaints.

Those on the hill and those in the city seemed mutually to return the groans of each other. Such as were expiring through famine, were revived by this hideous scene, and seemed to acquire new spirits to deplore their misfortunes. The lamentations from the city wore re-echoed from the adjacent mountains, and places beyond Jordan.
The flames which enveloped the Temple were so violent and impetuous, that the lofty hill. on which it stood appeared, even front its deep foundations, as one large body of fire. The blood of the sufferers flowed in proportion to the rage of this de structive element ; and the number of the slain exceeded all calculation.
=========================

Revelation 18:
8 Thru this in one day shall be arriving<2240> Her blows,
death and sorrow and famine.
And in fire She shall be utterly burned<2618>,
that strong Lord the GOD, the One judging Her.
10 From afar<3113> having stood because of the fear of the tormenting<929> of Her saying "Woe! woe! the great City Babylon! the strong City!

That to one hour came the judging<2920> of Thee.
18 And they cried<2896>, observing the smoke of Her burning<4451>, saying, "What like to the great City?"
19 and they cast dust upon their heads, and cried<2896>, lamenting<2799>, weeping and mourning<3996>, saying, "Woe! woe! the great City! in which are rich all those having ships<4143> in the sea, out of Her preciousness<5094>,
for to one hour was She was desolated<2049>.

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee

and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee,
and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".

 
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nolidad

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mainly because it did not happen in 70 a.d. it will not b fulfilled until anti-Christ has come. But that is what happens if we turn prophecy that has clearly not been fulfilled. It then becomes a woefully inaccurate history book.

Identity of the Great City where the final two witnesses are slain is the same city where their Lord was crucified. Nowhere between the here and the great city mystery Babylon are we told the identity has changed. We are then told the three spiritual conditions of the great spiritual Sodom, Egypt and Babylon. This is the spiritual condition of the city of Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord. Read the prophecies Isaiah 1- 5 that take place when the Lord comes in His Splendor and it has to do with nothing but the apostate condition she is in. She will have amassed great wealth, power etc. This wealth will have been acquired when anti-Christ is present and no man may buy or self without his mark. Maybe he makes an exception for Israel?

This is incorrect.

Mid way through the 70th week of Daniel (the tribulation) the antichrist is killed, rises from the dead, the false prophet orders the mark, and Jerusalem is ransacked and Israel has to flee for its life! It simply does not have time to become a world center for trade !

Just because Jerusalem is called a great city in Rev. 11 does not mean it is "that great city" in REv. 18. I hold to a rebuilt Babylon. Hussein rebuilt a 1/7th scale of ancient Baqbylon and there is a reason why the world has such a focus in the middle east and Iraq.
 
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Vicky gould

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This is incorrect.

Mid way through the 70th week of Daniel (the tribulation) the antichrist is killed, rises from the dead, the false prophet orders the mark, and Jerusalem is ransacked and Israel has to flee for its life! It simply does not have time to become a world center for trade !

Just because Jerusalem is called a great city in Rev. 11 does not mean it is "that great city" in REv. 18. I hold to a rebuilt Babylon. Hussein rebuilt a 1/7th scale of ancient Baqbylon and there is a reason why the world has such a focus in the middle east and Iraq.

Hi good to be able to discuss with a brother. I don't want to shock you but sadly I disagree. Anti- Christ will indeed counterfeit Christ and after suffering a head wound he appears to come back to life and the world wonders after The Beast. All we are told is that in the middle of the week and what we are being shown here anti-Christ is trying to change times and seasons. Anti-Christ who counterfeits as well as opposes the Lord Jesus. He is seeking to change the time of the Passover. His fake death probably was a few days before this and he will rise on First Fruits at least these things he is creating trying to change time and seasons. I don't know what to call because when he does this turning, trying to, Two and a half years after this from his counterfeit Passover the time for the Feast of Passover seeking the true time for Passover will come and with it the Return of the True Passover Lamb

Only a remnant will be saved on that day.

Let me ask you this what if a being who is a fallen angel comes down out of heaven and declares himself to be God what kind of investment money would flow into that country? Think it could effect Tourism? What aspect of life would this not spill over into? Take a look at Isaiah I-5 to see what the apostate portion of Israel, not the remnant, rich, powerful and so on All this during the time no one may buy or sell without the mark. Maybe anti-Christ gives Israel an exemption, right. They are shown running from Him and seeking caves to escape to they ask the caves to fall on them because of the returned Lord.

Why would both Daniel and John be surprised and horrified when they saw who she is. Why would they be surprised and saddened for any of the cities supposedly suggest from the Gentile world ? They shouldn't all those countries are pretty like mystery Babylon already. Would they be surprised to see "How the Holy City has become a harlot. " Bet the house on that its a winner
 
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nolidad

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Hi good to be able to discuss with a brother. I don't want to shock you but sadly I disagree. Anti- Christ will indeed counterfeit Christ and after suffering a head wound he appears to come back to life and the world wonders after The Beast. All we are told is that in the middle of the week and what we are being shown here anti-Christ is trying to change times and seasons. Anti-Christ who counterfeits as well as opposes the Lord Jesus. He is seeking to change the time of the Passover. His fake death probably was a few days before this and he will rise on First Fruits at least these things he is creating trying to change time and seasons. I don't know what to call because when he does this turning, trying to, Two and a half years after this from his counterfeit Passover the time for the Feast of Passover seeking the true time for Passover will come and with it the Return of the True Passover Lamb

Only a remnant will be saved on that day.

Let me ask you this what if a being who is a fallen angel comes down out of heaven and declares himself to be God what kind of investment money would flow into that country? Think it could effect Tourism? What aspect of life would this not spill over into? Take a look at Isaiah I-5 to see what the apostate portion of Israel, not the remnant, rich, powerful and so on All this during the time no one may buy or sell without the mark. Maybe anti-Christ gives Israel an exemption, right. They are shown running from Him and seeking caves to escape to they ask the caves to fall on them because of the returned Lord.

Why would both Daniel and John be surprised and horrified when they saw who she is. Why would they be surprised and saddened for any of the cities supposedly suggest from the Gentile world ? They shouldn't all those countries are pretty like mystery Babylon already. Would they be surprised to see "How the Holy City has become a harlot. " Bet the house on that its a winner

Hi Vicky:

As far as the antichrist dying a real death, let us look at Scripture.

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

This is Jesus! See: "as it had been slain".

Now the antichrist.

Revelation 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

See: "as it were wounded to death".

SLAIN AND WOUNDED ARE BOTH THE WORD "SPHAZO" which means slain.

Thjey are both in the perfect passive participle which means whatever happened to the lamb, happened to the head of teh beast.

It makes the accurate counterfeit.

Now as for Jerusalem becoming a massively rich city. Remember the antichrist does not take Jerusalem until mid way through the 70th week of Daniel. When He enters the temple declares HImself God and declares genocide against Israel and Christians.

At a minimum we have had the 7 seals and at least half of the bowls take place when He makes Jerusalem His city. NOt much time to make it a wealthy city considering the rest of teh bowls and trumpets judgments are to ensue!
 
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Vicky gould

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Hi Vicky:

As far as the antichrist dying a real death, let us look at Scripture.

Revelation 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

This is Jesus! See: "as it had been slain".

Now the antichrist.

Revelation 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Revelation 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

See: "as it were wounded to death".

SLAIN AND WOUNDED ARE BOTH THE WORD "SPHAZO" which means slain.

Thjey are both in the perfect passive participle which means whatever happened to the lamb, happened to the head of teh beast.

It makes the accurate counterfeit.

Now as for Jerusalem becoming a massively rich city. Remember the antichrist does not take Jerusalem until mid way through the 70th week of Daniel. When He enters the temple declares HImself God and declares genocide against Israel and Christians.

At a minimum we have had the 7 seals and at least half of the bowls take place when He makes Jerusalem His city. NOt much time to make it a wealthy city considering the rest of teh bowls and trumpets judgments are to ensue!

Hi, good stuff, I can only go by the accounts of the prophets. Isaiah 1-5 shows the condition of Israel when the Lord rises in His glory to shake the world. There is only one prophecy in Scripture that reveals shows Israel's unlikely rise as well as the Church age. Of course the same teaching is contained from her beginning to her end. We are shown her taking a "rock" who is not like our Rock who is anti- Christ small "r" and the Christ large "R"

We are told that the delusion that is coming upon the world who is anti-Christ suffers what appears to be a satanic counterfeit that it could almost fool the Elect. Think of the things this delusion would have to be for you to almost be deceived. Born in Europe no. This being must be born in Israel Bethlehem to be exact. We are told of this satanic counterfeit of his wound that will appear to be deadly and appear to be Resurrected. The world will wonder after the Beast. The Beast we are told:

"Was, is not now, and will be again. "Anti-Christ the perfect counterfeit of the Christ we are told "He was, is and will be again. Anti-Christ as the Lord has also done come into the world many times. In the Garden of Eden this "guardian cherub" according to Ezekiel. Not only that we see another counterfeiting of the Lord when anti=Christ dressed as the High Priest as our Lord is the Great High Priest. This is the anti-Christ who is being sent to apostate in the fulfillment of the Last Week of years. Anti-Christ will be the High Priest and halfway through the Week He declares the Millennial he will claim to be the Messiah. Anti-Christ is going to be able to understand 'dark things" men want to know." about the mysteries about life.

Hope we can continue this and other topics as well.
 
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nolidad

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Hi, good stuff, I can only go by the accounts of the prophets. Isaiah 1-5 shows the condition of Israel when the Lord rises in His glory to shake the world. There is only one prophecy in Scripture that reveals shows Israel's unlikely rise as well as the Church age. Of course the same teaching is contained from her beginning to her end. We are shown her taking a "rock" who is not like our Rock who is anti- Christ small "r" and the Christ large "R"

We are told that the delusion that is coming upon the world who is anti-Christ suffers what appears to be a satanic counterfeit that it could almost fool the Elect. Think of the things this delusion would have to be for you to almost be deceived. Born in Europe no. This being must be born in Israel Bethlehem to be exact. We are told of this satanic counterfeit of his wound that will appear to be deadly and appear to be Resurrected. The world will wonder after the Beast. The Beast we are told:

"Was, is not now, and will be again. "Anti-Christ the perfect counterfeit of the Christ we are told "He was, is and will be again. Anti-Christ as the Lord has also done come into the world many times. In the Garden of Eden this "guardian cherub" according to Ezekiel. Not only that we see another counterfeiting of the Lord when anti=Christ dressed as the High Priest as our Lord is the Great High Priest. This is the anti-Christ who is being sent to apostate in the fulfillment of the Last Week of years. Anti-Christ will be the High Priest and halfway through the Week He declares the Millennial he will claim to be the Messiah. Anti-Christ is going to be able to understand 'dark things" men want to know." about the mysteries about life.

Hope we can continue this and other topics as well.

HI Vicky:

Teh Isaiah 1-5 passages are describing the Millenial kingdom! After Jesus returns and established His Kingdom and Israel is the central point of all the world!

During the first half of the trib there may be peace and safety- but the last half of the trib- the bowls and trumpet judgments are being poured out! This is the time of Israels attempted annihilation and Jerusalem is desolate because the Antichrist fulfills Matt 24:

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The antichrist has not always existed. He is Satans physical son as prophesied in Gen. 3. He is the counterfeit Son of the counterfeit Trinity.

Satan as pseudo father
HIs Son as pseudo son
and the "false Prophet" as the pseudo Holy Spirit!
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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HI Vicky:

Teh Isaiah 1-5 passages are describing the Millenial kingdom! After Jesus returns and established His Kingdom and Israel is the central point of all the world!

During the first half of the trib there may be peace and safety- but the last half of the trib- the bowls and trumpet judgments are being poured out! This is the time of Israels attempted annihilation and Jerusalem is desolate because the Antichrist fulfills Matt 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Matthew 24 was fulfilled on the 1st century Jews as prophecied by the OT Prophets and the Lord Jesus and verified by Josephus........;)

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:6 Wars rumors of Wars
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:15 Abomination desolation....desolating of Jerusalem.
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized
Matt 24:16 those in Judea flee

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tidings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>
===========================
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see:
Rapture refuted

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com,
CAST OF CHARACTERS:
Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
================================
Preterist Perspectives on Josephus' Wars of the Jews @ PreteristArchive.com,

MAY, A.D. 66 - JERUSALEM
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
 
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joshua 1 9

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Josephus tells us that not every stone was cast or throne down
The stones were moved to Rome and used in the Building of the Coliseum. The Arch of Titus in Rome tells the story about Solomon's treasure.
312581_6dd43185d170969b337bc00ffae766c7.jpg
 

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Vicky gould

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The stones were moved to Rome and used in the Building of the Coliseum. The Arch of Titus in Rome tells the story about Solomon's treasure.
312581_6dd43185d170969b337bc00ffae766c7.jpg
Josephus tells us the Roman soldiers used the western retaining wall as part of their bivouac and he also tells us the stones were not "all cast down" as foretold the Lord many fell down on their own due to the fire, nice picture.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The stones were moved to Rome and used in the Building of the Coliseum. The Arch of Titus in Rome tells the story about Solomon's treasure.
Josephus tells us the Roman soldiers used the western retaining wall as part of their bivouac and he also tells us the stones were not "all cast down" as foretold the Lord many fell down on their own due to the fire, nice picture.
Yes, I agree............

I believe Jesus was speaking more of the Temple and Sanctuary than Fort Antonia and the other walls around the City.

Matthew 24:2
And Jesus said to them, “ are ye not seeing all these?
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be being left here stone upon stone, which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>.”

Mark 13:2
And Jesus answering said to him, “thou are beholding these, the great buildings.
Not no may be being left here stone upon stone which not no may be being thrown-down<2647>

Luke 21:6
These which ye are beholding.
Shall be coming days in which
not shall be being left stone upon stone here which not shall be being thrown-down<2647>
[Luke 19:44]

Luke 19:
39 Some of the Pharisees from the multitude said to him, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples!"
40 He answered them, "I tell you that if these were silent, the stones would cry out."

41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward peace of Thee, now yet it was hid from Thy eyes. 43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee, and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee and shall be encompassing Thee, and pressing Thee from-every-side.
44 And shall be leveling Thee and Thy offspring in Thee, and not shall be leaving stone upon stone in Thee,
stead which not Thou knew the season of the visitation<1984> of Thee".


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Before their final demolition, however, Titus took, a. survey of the city and its fortifications ; and, while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF. "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations, and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?"

After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations, excepting only the three lofty towers Hippocos, Phasael, and Mariamne, which he suffered to remain as evidences of its strength, and as trophies of his victory.
There was left standing, also, a small part of the western wall; as a rampart for a garrison, to keep the surrounding country in subjection.

The "Wailing Wall" and "..not stone upon stone left.." Matt, Mark and Luke
There appears to be arguments concerning the Temple/Jerusalem Discourse about the wall that remains in Jerusalem from the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem.
Most theologians believe the Wailing Wall is either part of the Temple wall or that it is the western wall of Fort Antonia.
In either case, since a stone wall is still standing, does that make the 70ad Jerusalem/Temple Discourse concerning "stone upon stone being thrown down" a false prophecy by Jesus?.
New Evidence that "The Temple Mount" is the remains of Roman Fort Antonia
Revelation 16:21 "..great HAIL fell on men as a talent weight.." Josephus


 
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