UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson calls on Germany and France to compromise on Brexit

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,050
9,608
47
UK
✟1,141,465.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
That's your system ... apparently democratic in some fashion.

Ours is democratic in some fashion as well. Ours is technically a republic, some say that's to slow down the tendency toward 'mob rule' exhibited by pure democracies. It seems that the system in the UK must have similar safeguards, judging from the brakes having been applied to Brexit. Despite those brakes though, the push to Brexit has continued unabated.

Looking at things from this side of the pond, it appears that the UK will soon sever its bonds with the EU. Good on ya'.
There are very few breaks on a British pm, if he has a majority in the house. The thing is he has no majority for no deal brexit in the house, and has prorogue parliament to get his way against the wishes not just of parliament but according to polling 75% of the population. Remember the referendum asked a general question do you want to leave the EU, not how do you leave the EU. The how was left to parliament.

Oh and yes I'm sure the USA is rubbing its hands in glee at the possibility of asset stripping the uk, since the idea that the UK will be able to negotiate a favourable trade treaty is just nonsense.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: LionL
Upvote 0

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,050
9,608
47
UK
✟1,141,465.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
8D8618C7-5295-4C35-8A6E-8CC1B50EC7F6.jpeg
 
Upvote 0

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,050
9,608
47
UK
✟1,141,465.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
That statement makes sense particularly when applied to Tory ministers. This is what they have said before regarding proroguing parliament:

Nicky Morgan: “A mad suggestion”

Matt Hancock: “Undermines democracy”

Michael Gove: “Not true to the best traditions of British democracy”

Amber Rudd: “Outrageous”

Sajid Javid: “Trashing democracy”

It seems that to them, their careers are much more important than respecting parliament, the voice of the people.
WellMichael Gove today indicated that the govt will ignore laws passed by parliament to stop no deal.
 
Upvote 0

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,997
19,443
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟489,034.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
WellMichael Gove today indicated that the govt will ignore laws passed by parliament to stop no deal.
Good on them. Time for you guys to take back control! (Might include temporary or permanent total loss of control)
 
Upvote 0

cow451

Standing with Ukraine.
Supporter
May 29, 2012
41,108
24,128
Hot and Humid
✟1,120,276.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Kentonio

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2018
7,467
10,458
48
Lyon
✟266,564.00
Country
France
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
That statement makes sense particularly when applied to Tory ministers. This is what they have said before regarding proroguing parliament:

Nicky Morgan: “A mad suggestion”

Matt Hancock: “Undermines democracy”

Michael Gove: “Not true to the best traditions of British democracy”

Amber Rudd: “Outrageous”

Sajid Javid: “Trashing democracy”

It seems that to them, their careers are much more important than respecting parliament, the voice of the people.

Not to mention the letter Boris sent during the leadership election saying he wouldn’t prorogue parliament.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: LionL
Upvote 0

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,050
9,608
47
UK
✟1,141,465.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Not necessarily - to quote John Berkov just now, "Shutting down Parliament would be an offence against the democratic process and the rights of Parliamentarians as the people’s elected representatives,"

“Surely at this early stage in his premiership, the prime minister should be seeking to establish rather than undermine his democratic credentials and indeed his commitment to Parliamentary democracy."

Also, Labour MP for Edinburgh South Ian Murray says MPs and peers will consider seeking an interim interdict to stop prorogation.

According to BBC political editor Laura Kuenssberg, "This fight is going to be legal as well as political in next few weeks."

Tory MPs are also saying that this is a shameful move and parliament will not stand for it.

I can see how the far-right are trying to take over our democracy. They have been on the rise ever since that referendum. Thankfully, we are still democratic and Johnson, Farage and their ilk will be prevented from dragging us out of the EU against our will.
Sadly the courts are supporting Boris and proroguing parliament. Indeed even if the govt loses today, there is now no longer time for the bill to pass the House of Lords, brexiters have ensured brexit cannot legally be delayed.
Tory peers accused of wrecking tactics over bill to delay Brexit
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Nithavela
Upvote 0

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,997
19,443
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟489,034.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
  • Haha
Reactions: LionL
Upvote 0

LionL

Believer in God, doubter of religion
Jan 23, 2015
914
645
51
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland
✟29,536.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Sadly the courts are supporting Boris and proroguing parliament. Indeed even if the govt loses today, there is now no longer time for the bill to pass the House of Lords, brexiters have ensured brexit cannot legally be delayed.
Tory peers accused of wrecking tactics over bill to delay Brexit
Although there is an appeal scheduled. plus, there are cases in England, Wales and Northern Ireland too. perhaps one of them will stop proroguing?

Regarding the delaying tactics in the House of Lords - I have heard some Lib Dems lords saying they will remain in parliament until the debate is over, even if that takes until next week.

In fact, parliament cannot b prorogued if a debate is still continuing. So Boris' plan to delay the bill might backfire.

We will prevent Brexit - the majority will not let a PM with such disregard for parliament ride roughshod over democracy.
 
Upvote 0

Nithavela

our world is happy and mundane
Apr 14, 2007
27,997
19,443
Comb. Pizza Hut and Taco Bell/Jamaica Avenue.
✟489,034.00
Country
Germany
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Single
Although there is an appeal scheduled. plus, there are cases in England, Wales and Northern Ireland too. perhaps one of them will stop proroguing?

Regarding the delaying tactics in the House of Lords - I have heard some Lib Dems lords saying they will remain in parliament until the debate is over, even if that takes until next week.

In fact, parliament cannot b prorogued if a debate is still continuing. So Boris' plan to delay the bill might backfire.

We will prevent Brexit - the majority will not let a PM with such disregard for parliament ride roughshod over democracy.
I think this might be the first time I hear of a fillibuster outside of the USA.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LionL

Believer in God, doubter of religion
Jan 23, 2015
914
645
51
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland
✟29,536.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
I think this might be the first time I hear of a fillibuster outside of the USA.
Don't know about over there, but over here it's used quite often as a low down trick to prevent dmocracy being enabled. It will not work - Brexit will be stopped
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,625
81
St Charles, IL
✟347,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
How do you rationalize away the fact that "democracy" already has spoken and chose Brexit?
LOL! Democracy chose Brexit (with a little help from Russian fiddling) but not a "no-deal" Brexit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LionL
Upvote 0

Tom 1

Optimistic sceptic
Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
12,212
12,526
Tarnaveni
✟818,769.00
Country
Romania
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Boris & co might actually get some parliamentary support if they would just lay out their plan clearly and honestly. That’s assuming they have a plan, in the absence of any evidence that they do. They aren’t doing themselves any favours by continually lying and by failing to present any kind of coherent plan.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

LionL

Believer in God, doubter of religion
Jan 23, 2015
914
645
51
The United Kingdom of Great Britain and N. Ireland
✟29,536.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
How do you rationalize away the fact that "democracy" already has spoken and chose Brexit?
Quite easily - the referendum was 'won' on lies and false promises. Now we know the truth, a clear majority now want to remain.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Speedwell
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

SoldierOfTheKing

Christian Spenglerian
Jan 6, 2006
9,223
3,039
Kenmore, WA
✟276,939.00
Country
United States
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Lion L said:
Indeed - why else would Johnson deny our elected MPs a voice?

Because over three years after the referendum, Parliament still hasn't negotiated a deal.

Oh and yes I'm sure the USA is rubbing its hands in glee at the possibility of asset stripping the uk, since the idea that the UK will be able to negotiate a favourable trade treaty is just nonsense.

Surely not as absurd as the idea that the UK can negotiate a favorable treaty with EU without no deal still on the table.
 
Upvote 0

wing2000

E pluribus unum
Supporter
Aug 18, 2012
20,775
17,082
✟1,389,831.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This just in.... President Donald Trump has requested permission from the Queen to dissolve the House of Representatives. God Save the Queen!

Maybe Pelosi can petition the Queen to have a vote of no confidence.....
 
  • Haha
Reactions: cow451
Upvote 0

Tom 1

Optimistic sceptic
Supporter
Nov 13, 2017
12,212
12,526
Tarnaveni
✟818,769.00
Country
Romania
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Surely not as absurd as the idea that the UK can negotiate a favorable treaty with EU without no deal still on the table.

A negotiation tactic that blows off your own foot while causing some inconvenience to the other party isn’t a particularly good one.
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
8,524
9,496
✟236,499.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
How do you rationalize away the fact that "democracy" already has spoken and chose Brexit?
The Brexit that was chosen was on the basis of an orderly exit from the EU and a substantial financial benefit to the NHS that was a lie. Had the facts that have since emerged been widely known at the time it is likely the Remain vote would have been the larger.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,138
33,258
✟583,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The Brexit that was chosen was on the basis of an orderly exit from the EU and a substantial financial benefit to the NHS that was a lie. Had the facts that have since emerged been widely known at the time it is likely the Remain vote would have been the larger.
Perhaps, but kind of rationalization can be used to sidestep just about any popular vote, right? ;)

The idea that underlies democracy is that the people choose, not that they choose well.
 
Upvote 0