LDS LDS Jesus Could Have Lost His Godhood

Peter1000

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I, nor SDA's, do not believe that when we die we go directly to heaven or hell. When Jesus comes we will be resurrected and then we get our reward of eternal life. After the 1000 years the wicked are resurrected and they get their punishment. We believe that Christians do not die, we sleep until the resurrection. Moses was resurrected, as it is alluded to in Jude. Enoch and Elijah were translated. So--no---we do not believe that Peter, James and John are in heaven now.
You do know that when a scripture refers to sleeping during the resurrection, it is only referring to the dead body, which verily does sleep, sort of.

But the spirit does not sleep, it continues to live, just like Jesus's spirit during the 3 days that his body lay slumbering in the tomb. Then the 2 entities reunited after 3 days and he was resurrected alive again.

The same thing will happen to us, exactly how it happened for Jesus, except our bodies will sleep longer in the grave than his did. At the resurrection our eternally alive spirits will enter our sleeping bodies and we will reunite in a perfect resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Just like Jesus has today. The exact same, as soon as our bodies are exalted from God.

So nobody on this forum, even your friendly Christians believe we go to sleep until the resurrection. If I am wrong, other Christians speak up.
 
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mmksparbud

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You do know that when a scripture refers to sleeping during the resurrection, it is only referring to the dead body, which verily does sleep, sort of.

But the spirit does not sleep, it continues to live, just like Jesus's spirit during the 3 days that his body lay slumbering in the tomb. Then the 2 entities reunited after 3 days and he was resurrected alive again.

The same thing will happen to us, exactly how it happened for Jesus, except our bodies will sleep longer in the grave than his did. At the resurrection our eternally alive spirits will enter our sleeping bodies and we will reunite in a perfect resurrected body of flesh and bone and spirit. Just like Jesus has today. The exact same, as soon as our bodies are exalted from God.

So nobody on this forum, even your friendly Christians believe we go to sleep until the resurrection. If I am wrong, other Christians speak up.

You are not going to change my mind on what sleep means. I do not believe in the soul going anywhere -- it is the power of God's breath that goes back to Him. I do not believe in the dead souls in hell or heaven. At the resurrections is when we are given our reward.
Rev_22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I do not believe we get our reward--or punishment--until the resurrection of the saved (1st resurrection), and the resurrection of the lost (2nd resurrection). Most on this website believe otherwise. However, we are not the only denomination that believes in "soul sleep." I've been on countless threads about it, and that, and the Sabbath, are the most hotly debated. I don't go by what is the most popular believe held by the most Christians. I just go by what I believe the bible says.
 
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He is the way

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You really don't know the difference between knowing something and believing something, do you? It's quite bizarre.
Yes I do know the difference, but it has been proven to me that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is Jesus Christ's true church and therefore I can not deny it.
 
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He is the way

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Yes you are somewhat correct , but I'd say there are tares among the wheat. There are unsaved that consider themselves Christians that are within Christendom, those that have not followed the true Jesus who is revealed in the Bible, not anywhere else, that is not what I'm referring.
Please, Joseph Smith has you believing his false teachings. He taught Another God and Another Jesus Another heaven , and Another gospel and that makes Mormons idolaters because they worship not the real Holy eternal God who revealed Himself to Abraham.
Repeating bible verses does not mean you are a Christian.
You have been told fables.
I believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ are as described in the Book of Mormon:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.
 
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Rescued One

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According to the Bible we are to fear God and keep the commandments of LOVE. That has never changed:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

(New Testament | Matthew 5:18 - 19)

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

(New Testament | Matthew 7:21)

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

As it is written so let it be done.

I never in all my years heard a Mormon say, "I'm afraid of God." Are you afraid?
 
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Rescued One

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You really don't know the difference between knowing something and believing something, do you? It's quite bizarre.

Mormons are taught from childhood to say "I know this church is true." During fast and testimony meeting (first Sunday of each month) several members of their church stand up and share a testimony that either begins or ends with "I know..."

Moroni 10
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

If you don't have a testimony, guess whose fault it is.
 
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Rescued One

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I believe that God the Father and Jesus Christ are as described in the Book of Mormon:

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 31:21)

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

Do you believe that or do you know that?
 
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Rescued One

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Paul also teaches this:

1 Corinthians 13:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Can you tell me what charity is? Paul tells us it is greater than 'faith', which you think is the key to eternal life, which it is, but only if you have charity.

If you don't have charity, then your faith is nothing. So we better study up on what charity is, right?

There is no faith in Christ that lacks charity! Faith in Christ means we have been set free from the power of Satan.

Bible read-bible.gif

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were (past tense) sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Unbelievers are described:
Titus 1
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
 
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He is the way

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I never in all my years heard a Mormon say, "I'm afraid of God." Are you afraid?
There are reasons to fear God. The first is because of His power. The second is because of His judgement. And third there are many scriptures that tell us to fear God:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


(New Testament | Matthew 10:28)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

(New Testament | Luke 12:4 - 5)

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

(Old Testament | Psalms 31:19)

19 Oh how great is thy goodness, which thou hast laid up for them that fear thee; which thou hast wrought for them that trust in thee before the sons of men!

(New Testament | Acts 10:34 - 35)

34 ¶ Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

(New Testament | Philippians 2:12 - 16)

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 1:16 - 25)

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
 
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twin.spin

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If the bible verse proves that JS told the truth, then you need to listen.
But since the all the Bible is God's revealed truth proves that JS didn't tell the truth … then you need stop listening since your fate will be that of outer darkness.
 
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He is the way

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But since the all the Bible is God's revealed truth proves that JS didn't tell the truth … then you need stop listening since your fate will be that of outer darkness.
No one who keeps the commandments of LOVE will be in outer darkness. That is Gods promise
 
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Peter1000

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There is no faith in Christ that lacks charity! Faith in Christ means we have been set free from the power of Satan.

View attachment 262367

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were (past tense) sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Unbelievers are described:
Titus 1
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
IOW you don't believe Paul. Only when Paul agrees with you. I see.
 
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dzheremi

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Mormons are taught from childhood to say "I know this church is true." During fast and testimony meeting (first Sunday of each month) several members of their church stand up and share a testimony that either begins or ends with "I know..."

Moroni 10
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

This is a very good point and one that I sometimes forget when dealing with Mormons. Thank you.

If you don't have a testimony, guess whose fault it is.

The Home Teachers'? :sorry:

(Just kidding; I know it's the Mormon individuals'/laity's fault.)
 
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Peter1000

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But since the all the Bible is God's revealed truth proves that JS didn't tell the truth … then you need stop listening since your fate will be that of outer darkness.
That is where you have a problem. The whole bible actually confirms that JS is right.

For instance you believe that no man has seen God. You believe that because of 1 scripture, and that scripture is:
John 1:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

But the bible also says that men have seen God:
Genesis 32:24-30 King James Version (KJV)
24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.
26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me.
27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob.
28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

How interesting is this encounter with God? Jacob wrestles with God and holds him down until daybreak and then God blesses Jacob and gives him a new name.


AND

Genesis 18 King James Version (KJV)
18 And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

Notice Abraham not only sees the Lord (God), but the Lord (God) did eat and drink and had his feet washed. Interesting don't you think.

So, far from just seeing God, these incidents tell us that God is like a man in all ways, but He is also the Eternal God of heaven.

This is exactly what JS teaches from the bible, is that what you teach? Or do you teach another doctrine?
 
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Peter1000

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This is a very good point and one that I sometimes forget when dealing with Mormons. Thank you.



The Home Teachers'? :sorry:

(Just kidding; I know it's the Mormon individuals'/laity's fault.)
I was once a small child, who came up to the microphone and bore my testimony that I knew that Jesus was the Christ and the real Son of God and that he died for my sins.

I knew this because I had learned from my father these things, and had heard my father stand up and testify of these things many times.

Later, when it was time to go on a mission, I had to know for sure myself. So I started a study and prayer program and learned for myself these thing to be true. Then my mission just reinforced everything I had learned and I know by the Holy Spirit that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that he died for my sins. I learned that I must remain faithful to my covenants at baptism and endure to the end and I will receive Eternal Life with God and Jesus Christ.

That is a process that all born-in-the-church members go through. Some do not make it to the level that I have reached, where they can stand on their own strength and through the administration of the Holy Spirit that these things are true. But it is a life-long journey, and we never say never.
 
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Rescued One

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There are reasons to fear God. The first is because of His power. The second is because of His judgement. And third there are many scriptures that tell us to fear God:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.


(New Testament | Matthew 10:28)

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

(New Testament | Luke 12:4 - 5)

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

(Old Testament | Psalms 31:19)

19 Oh how great is thy goodness, which thou hast laid up for them that fear thee; which thou hast wrought for them that trust in thee before the sons of men!

(New Testament | Acts 10:34 - 35)

34 ¶ Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

(New Testament | Philippians 2:12 - 16)

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 1:16 - 25)

16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Answer the question, please. Are you afraid of God? I'm not.

1 John 4
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us.
 
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Rescued One

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No one who keeps the commandments of LOVE will be in outer darkness. That is Gods promise

The only people worthy of eternity with the 2 Mormon gods are Mormons who have been married for eternity and kept all their covenants. That is Joseph Smith's promise.
 
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mmksparbud

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Answer the question, please. Are you afraid of God? I'm not.

1 John 4
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 19 We love him, because he first loved us.


The word fear, depending on it's context, also means---awe, wonder, filled with amazement and reverence. Quite the opposite of wanting to go up and shake His hand! I think it was BY that made the comment that he wanted to shake His hand---that totally floored me. How utterly arrogant.
 
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Rescued One

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There is no faith in Christ that lacks charity! Faith in Christ means we have been set free from the power of Satan.

View attachment 262367

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were (past tense) sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

Unbelievers are described:
Titus 1
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I'm a believer.

The Epistle of Paul to Titus, usually referred to simply as Titus, is one of the three Pastoral Epistles (along with 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy) in the New Testament, historically attributed to Paul the Apostle.Epistle to Titus - Wikipedia


IOW you don't believe Paul. Only when Paul agrees with you. I see.

Blind people can't see.
 
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