The Sixth Seal

Lost4words

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Problem i see, Keras, is that you only think that 'you' are correct or know the truth. You interpret scripture with your own individual opinion as to what it is telling you.

Like i have stated before, the Bible is the most misinterpreted and misunderstood book in the whole world.
 
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Douggg

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This belief is anomalous. Luke 21:34-36 says that the Lord's wrath will fall upon everyone, no one can escape it. Then you and most 'rapture to heaven' deceived people, stupidly think verse 36 means removal.
This idea totally contradicts the many verses that plainly say we must endure until the end.
It says right in the text, accounted worthy to "escape".

Luke 21 (KJV):
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
 
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Douggg

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That warning applied to the Christian Jews in 70 AD. Past history.
When they see Jerusalem surrounded by armies. In 70AD.

Differently, in Matthew 24:15, it is end times, and for a different reason to flee to the mountains.

When the abomination of desolation is standing in a holy place.

Matthew 24 (KJV)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
 
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Douggg

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Who was that vile person, then? Please support your opinion with scripture or historical facts.
Daniel 11:21 is not end times. Transition to time of the end
is in Daniel 11:35. The king in Daniel 11:36 is the beast.
Correct.
As for your chart, you probably wouldn't like a critique of it, as it is more error than truth. The 2300 days, for example was fulfilled in 167-164 BC.
My chart is correct.

The vision of the transgression of desolation of Daniel is time of the end in the text. KJV.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
 
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tranquil

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Christians will escape God's wrath, but that doesn't mean being 'whisked away'.

1 Thess 5
2 For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

5 For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. 6 So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

That 'salvation' is what is occuring in Revelation 7 with the 144,000 & the 'great multitude' 'coming out of the great tribulation'. And is the 'gathering' by the messengers ('angels') of Matthew 24:31

Once the day of the Lord starts, the wrath starts, ensnaring the unwary into the great tribulation & into the mark of the beast.
 
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Douggg

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@ tranquil

Christians will escape God's wrath, but that doesn't mean being 'whisked away'.

9. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Once the day of the Lord starts, the wrath starts, ensnaring the unwary into the great tribulation & into the mark of the beast.
__________________________________________________________
tranquil, you stopped two verses short. Verses 10 and 11, refer back to 1Thessalonians4:15-18, the rapture for them wake (alive at the time), and resurrection for them who are sleep (who have died in Christ). It is all the same letter that Paul wrote (which didn't have the chapter divisions).

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1Thessalonians4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 
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mkgal1

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Luke 21:25-28 is plainly an unfulfilled end time prophecy. It does not refer to a rapture or a change of the body.
It means our liberation from the wiles of Satan.
So the cross, Jesus' resurrection, and ascension *didn't* change anything? You're waiting for all these changes to be in the future? I'm of the belief that we have been (past tense - completed) liberated from "the wiles of Satan" already.

Jesus' followers were expecting *something* to happen after His death and resurrection and ascension - do you not agree? Otherwise - what would cause the early church to continue in their faith? What hope were they clinging to in all the persecution? Without Jesus demonstrating that He fulfilled Scripture - He would just be another victim of the Roman's cruel crucifixions (and not their Messiah).
 
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keras

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o the cross, Jesus' resurrection, and ascension *didn't* change anything? You're wanting for all these changes to be in the future? I'm of the belief that we have been (past tense - completed) liberated from "the wiles of Satan" already.
But the fact is that Satan is still around; roaring like a hungry lion....1 Peter 5:8
Faithful Christians can resist Satan, even some of them fail and fall away. We must be very strong to resist temptations and when things get really difficult, as they will during the last days, our faith must hold or we will lose our Salvation.
Only during the Millennium, will Satan be locked away. Then; once again he will deceive many, Revelation 20:7-10
It says right in the text, accounted worthy to "escape".
My REBible says: ...pray for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming.....
Your idea of 'escape' by removal, is wrong as that is a direct contradiction of verse 35.

You haven't said who the 'vile person' is in Daniel 11:21.
I contend that it is the Anti-Christ and all of Daniel 11:21-45 refers to the end times.
 
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mkgal1

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I'll ask again (because you seem to still be suggesting that nothing changed in Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension into heaven):


So the cross, Jesus' resurrection, and ascension *didn't* change anything?
 
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mkgal1

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Luke 21 in more context (I believe this is all fulfilled, BTW)....but why would there be a warning to "be on your guard" and to "be alert".....and "pray you may have strength" if it were pointless anyway and God's wrath would fall on them anyway? And why would Jesus be warning an entire generation of things that didn't even apply to them?:


The Need for Watchfulness
34 "Be on your guard, so that your minds are not dulled from carousing, drunkenness, and worries of life, or that day will come on you unexpectedly.

36 But be alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place and to stand before the Son of Man."​
 
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mkgal1

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Quoting Douglas Kelly:
According to what Christ says in the Gospels, Satan lost that privileged access to the heavenly courts as a result of the incarnation and work of Christ. In Luke 10:18–19, the seventy disciples return with great joy from their successful mission in preaching the gospel, healing the sick, and casting out demons. Christ then explains how they were able to accomplish these wonders: “He said to them, ‘I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven’” (v. 18). Jesus explains Satan’s fall in terms of Christian ministry: “Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you” (v. 19).

It is significant that the first beings to recognize the incarnate Christ, according to the gospel of Mark, were demons. Mark 1:24 and Luke 4:34 are among the passages that show the demons crying out in terror that the Holy One of God has come to torment them. Jesus explained that when He cast out demons by the Spirit of God (Matt. 12:28–29), it meant that the kingdom of God had come. In His work, He was binding the strong man (that is, the devil), who formerly had been keeping people in the dark and painful prison of unbelief, sin, and certain judgment.

After the Lord’s crucifixion and resurrection, and immediately before His ascension back to the Father, He commissioned the church to “go … and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (28:19). They would be able to do this because of Christ’s victory over Satan, who had long blinded the nations, for Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me’ (v. 18). Satan’s illegitimate power over the nations has been wrested from him, and placed into the hands of the legitimate Lord and Savior of the world.

Revelation 12:11 testifies of the embattled saints that “they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.” Hence, on the foundational truth of Satan’s having been bound from blinding the nations, the church may daily pray, “Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven” (Matt. 6:10), and find comfort in God’s assurance: “Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage, and the ends of the earth your possession” (Ps. 2:8). ~ The Binding of Satan by Douglas Kelly
 
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keras

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Believe Douglas Kelly, that's your prerogative.
I believe in the atoning sacrifice of Jesus for my sins, but I am as susceptible as anyone to fall from the faith and have my name blotted out of the Book of Life. Psalms 69:28

What is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns, will be our test of faith. 1 Peter 4:12
Those who have no idea of God's plans for His people, or have gripped onto false theories and beliefs such as the 'rapture' and preterism, will be surprised and shocked. Many will fail these tests to their eternal discredit.
 
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mkgal1

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Believe Douglas Kelly, that's your prerogative
He isn't alone in that theology - I just appreciate the language he uses. AFAIK.....what he is presenting is the entire basis of Christianity - the Good News. I honestly haven't run across someone that identifies as "Christian" but yet finds opposition to that. I'm not accusing you of not being Christian - I'm just saying that's a new understanding that I've never come across before, to dispute that as accomplished.
 
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keras

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He isn't alone in that theology - I just appreciate the language he uses. AFAIK.....what he is presenting is the entire basis of Christianity - the Good News. I honestly haven't run across someone that identifies as "Christian" but yet finds opposition to that. I'm not accusing you of not being Christian - I'm just saying that's a new understanding that I've never come across before, to dispute that as accomplished.
What is being discussed on this thread is forthcoming events, not the basis of Christianity.
It seems that you and many others either want Jesus to Return as the next thing to happen, or for Him to secretly come and take you to heaven, while the earth gets Tribulation.
Neither is what is told to us by the Bible Prophets. We WILL have to go through hard times, testing and trials, or as Hebrews 12:7-8 says; those who want to avoid the Lord's testing of our faith, are not His children at all.
 
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Douggg

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keras

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Antiohcus. Verse 35, transitions to the end times. The king in verse 36 is the beast.
Antiochus; A4E, is described in Daniel 11 before verse 21. Verse 14 refers to the Maccabean revolt, at first defeated in 167 BC, then successful as per verse 19. In 164 BC; exactly 1150 days later. That is; 2300 evening and morning sacrifices, fulfilling Daniel 8:14.

Daniel 11:21 plainly describes another king who does things that have not happened yet. Such as breaking the treaty with the people in the holy Land; Daniel 9:27

However; these prophesies are not the important issue at present.
It will be the Day the Lord takes action to destroy His enemies, who will attempt to destroy Israel by firing nuke missiles and thousands of rockets at the Jewish State of Israel.
The Lord will strike them at the moment of attack with a powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse, which will cause all their weapons to explode on the launch pad. Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 7:4-6, Habakkuk 3:14, Joel 3:4, +
 
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Douggg

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Antiochus; A4E, is described in Daniel 11 before verse 21. Verse 14 refers to the Maccabean revolt, at first defeated in 167 BC, then successful as per verse 19. In 164 BC; exactly 1150 days later. That is; 2300 evening and morning sacrifices, fulfilling Daniel 8:14.
The stopping of the daily sacrifice is necessary for both the transgression of desolation in Daniel 8:12-14, a time of the end event in the text..

...and for the abomination of desolation in Daniel 12:11-12, also a time of the end event in the text.

I show on my chart, the stopping of the daily sacrifice. Then the transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8 and 2Thesslalonians2:4. Then the person mortally wounded but healed. Then the abomination of desolation - from which are 1290 days and 1335 days.

The stopping of the daily sacrifice is the first step in shattering the peace and safety at the time.



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Douggg

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Is the Coronavirus the sixth seal?
No. The sixth seal event is the second heaven - i.e. the stars, the universe, parting like the curtain on a stage - and the world will see Jesus before the throne of God, sickle in hand, prepared to execute judgement on the wicked of the world who will have been persecuting the saints for the last 42 months of the 7 years forthcoming.

Your screen name, btw, no one can argue against, nor deny. :clap:
 
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