Yes to love, No to submission

Jesus_loves_us_all said:

you missed all the discussion and took only one point? True, there is nothing to talk about

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Jesus_loves_us_all said:

For long time I was questioning the Christianity of Paul as I see it very different from the Christianity of Jesus.

Before writing this blog. I sought the help of many priests and pastors and I was more shocked of what I was told

One told me, without Paul, we would not be saved. One told me, without Paul there would be no Christianity. One told me, we read the bible as a package, which means that Jesus’s bible has no value without Paul’s bible or Jesus bible is not complete with Paul’s letters. One told me that one day we might understand why Paul said something different from Jesus. One told me that one day we might understand why the blood of Jesus is not enough for the women’s salvation.

Why should we follow Paul’s letters, which are random texts and directed to specific groups at specific time? Why are we so desperate to follow humans instead of following God?

Do we never question Paul’s writings and blindly follow?

Christianity was the religion of Jesus. Early Christianity (before Paul changed it) was based around the teachings of Jesus regarding love, forgiveness, morality, values , how to be of a good nature and how we should love each other as Jesus loved us. Christianity of Jesus was about values while the Christianity of Paul is about doctrine.

Jesus built people while Paul built churches.

You can really see the differences in the two teachings when you read Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels then contrast them with Paul who never even quoted Jesus once.

For all Christians, study the Bible with your heart and mind and do not just blindly follow.

No one wants to stand ashamed before God in the resurrection because of following church fathers blindly who most of them were no even able to read.

Paul and women

As a woman, I believe that the demeaning language of Paul about women is not from the Holey spirit. The woman since she is born until the end of her life, she carries so many crosses without the extra crosses Paul wanted to add.

Marriage as per Paul’s instructions is a prescription for failure, the marriage will not be blessed and be successful simply because the wife is submitting and the husband is leading, regardless of who is better suited for what. The marriage as per Jesus is built on love and unity, marriage is blessed when husband and wife love each other (not one love and one submit), respecting each other, sacrificing for each other, praying together, discussing and deciding everything together.

• God is love. God who loves me will never degrade me.

• God who asked me to call him my father will never ask me to call my husband my master.

• Jesus, who never silenced a woman, will never silence me.

• Jesus, who never asked me to submit to him, will never ask me to submit to a man.

• Jesus, who did not condemn the adulterer for her own sin, will not ask Paul to condemn and punish me for Eve’s sin.

• Jesus, who do not allow authority among us, will not allow my husband to use authority over me.

• Jesus, who encouraged Mary to learn directly from him, will not ask me to learn only through a human (my husband).

• Jesus who answered all the Samaritan woman questions will not ask me not to ask questions in the church allowing me only to ask my husband who might pass wrong teachings to me.

• Jesus never used the word “submit” as Christianity is about love not submission; Jesus said, “love each other as I loved you” not “submit to each other or for a gender to submit to the other gender because Christianly is not about the flesh.

• Jesus who said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh” (Jesus repeated the one flesh twice. Which means you cannot separate the one flesh into male and female )

• Jesus who said, “Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” Will not let Paul and churches separate them into master and slave (even if the master loves the slave)

• Jesus who said, “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?” will not assign the husband to be the spiritual leader of his wife. The husband is not Jesus he is a human with limitations and sins and if he will spiritually lead his wife, who might be far more spiritual than him, they will both fall into a pit.

• Jesus, who is a fair God will not punish the woman for Eve’s sin and forgive the man for Adam’s sin.

• Jesus appeared to a woman (Mary Magdalene) first and asked her to deliver the good news to his “men” disciples and to instruct them to go to Galilee to see him (apostle to the apostles).

Paul denied that Jesus appeared first to Mary, Paul never even mentioned Mary when he confidently listed the order of the lord’s appearing after resurrection.

• Jesus refused to interfere between 2 brothers Luke 12:14

If the son of God did not appoint himself judge and executor between tow brothers, will he appoint Paul or church leaders to be the judge and the executor between and husband and wife whom God counts as one?

• It is not the feminism movement that bothers church leaders and men; it is the loss of power, authority and headship that bothers them.

• Where did Jesus ask the disciples (or Paul) to punish the women for Eve’s sin? Where did Jesus assign the disciples (or Paul) to separate the husband and wife by setting up set of roles for each? Where did Jesus ask the disciples to assign each man a slave (wife)?

• God ordered Abram to do as his wife said. Why I never hear this in a wedding ceremony or a sermon. Church leaders took the part where Sarah called her husband my master and ignored God’s instruction to Abram to do what his wife said.

• Paul and churches assigned the married woman a nun role but with more crosses to carry, they think that submitting to the man is the crown for the woman(of course crown of thrones)

• The message for women is that if they do not submit they are not obeying God and for sure, they will go to hell. Please read Jesus words about salvation, did it include anything that says that women will not be saved if they do not submit to their husbands?
• In the miracle of the 5 loaves and 2 fish, did Jesus say to feed the men first because they were created first? Did he order the women to clean and collect the left over because this is the role of women?
• One of the roles set up by churches is that the man provide for the woman (so that he will have authority over her, leaving her cornered in a very weak spot). Jesus allowed women to provide for him and follow him like the disciples
• For priests and pastors who try to make Paul’s instructions to women sound Christian, it is like adding spice to rotten food.

“No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak, for the patch pulls away from the cloak, and a worse tear is made. Neither is new wine put into old wineskins; otherwise, the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins are destroyed; but new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved” (Matthew 9:16–17, NRSV).

For all pastors, priests, bishops, servants or anyone who preach Paul’s rules for the roles of women and men in marriage and in the church. If these rules are not from God for each woman and man for our time and until end of days, you are committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

In addition, if Paul’s rules for the roles of women and men in marriage and in the church, which is applied by all churches, have caused a woman or a girl to stumble in their faith or a man to stumble with pride then this verse is for you.

“If anyone causes one of these little ones — those who believe in me — to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.”

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Jesus_loves_us_all said:

The 4 gospels. I believe that Jesus is the son of God, he assigned the disciples to spread the word and not to create a new doctrine. I believe that Paul and Peter are saints that died for the name of Jesus, but not to call what they said as "Christ" said. the holey spirit can give different messages to people depend in the environment and the situation they are in, only Jesus words are eternal and not limited by time or environment.

Click to expand...

Jesus_loves_us_all said:

The 4 gospels. I believe that Jesus is the son of God, he assigned the disciples to spread the word and not to create a new doctrine. I believe that Paul and Peter are saints that died for the name of Jesus, but not to call what they said as "Christ" said. the holey spirit can give different messages to people depend in the environment and the situation they are in, only Jesus words are eternal and not limited by time or environment.

Click to expand...

Jesus_loves_us_all said:

For long time I was questioning the Christianity of Paul as I see it very different from the Christianity of Jesus.

Before writing this blog. I sought the help of many priests and pastors and I was more shocked of what I was told

One told me, without Paul, we would not be saved. One told me, without Paul there would be no Christianity. One told me, we read the bible as a package, which means that Jesus’s bible has no value without Paul’s bible or Jesus bible is not complete with Paul’s letters. One told me that one day we might understand why Paul said something different from Jesus. One told me that one day we might understand why the blood of Jesus is not enough for the women’s salvation.

Why should we follow Paul’s letters, which are random texts and directed to specific groups at specific time? Why are we so desperate to follow humans instead of following God?

Do we never question Paul’s writings and blindly follow?

Christianity was the religion of Jesus. Early Christianity (before Paul changed it) was based around the teachings of Jesus regarding love, forgiveness, morality, values , how to be of a good nature and how we should love each other as Jesus loved us. Christianity of Jesus was about values while the Christianity of Paul is about doctrine.

Jesus built people while Paul built churches.

You can really see the differences in the two teachings when you read Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels then contrast them with Paul who never even quoted Jesus once.

For all Christians, study the Bible with your heart and mind and do not just blindly follow.

No one wants to stand ashamed before God in the resurrection because of following church fathers blindly who most of them were no even able to read.

Paul and women

As a woman, I believe that the demeaning language of Paul about women is not from the Holey spirit. The woman since she is born until the end of her life, she carries so many crosses without the extra crosses Paul wanted to add.

Marriage as per Paul’s instructions is a prescription for failure, the marriage will not be blessed and be successful simply because the wife is submitting and the husband is leading, regardless of who is better suited for what. The marriage as per Jesus is built on love and unity, marriage is blessed when husband and wife love each other (not one love and one submit), respecting each other, sacrificing for each other, praying together, discussing and deciding everything together.

• God is love. God who loves me will never degrade me.

• God who asked me to call him my father will never ask me to call my husband my master.

• Jesus, who never silenced a woman, will never silence me.

• Jesus, who never asked me to submit to him, will never ask me to submit to a man.

• Jesus, who did not condemn the adulterer for her own sin, will not ask Paul to condemn and punish me for Eve’s sin.

• Jesus, who do not allow authority among us, will not allow my husband to use authority over me.

• Jesus, who encouraged Mary to learn directly from him, will not ask me to learn only through a human (my husband).

• Jesus who answered all the Samaritan woman questions will not ask me not to ask questions in the church allowing me only to ask my husband who might pass wrong teachings to me.

• Jesus never used the word “submit” as Christianity is about love not submission; Jesus said, “love each other as I loved you” not “submit to each other or for a gender to submit to the other gender because Christianly is not about the flesh.

• Jesus who said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh” (Jesus repeated the one flesh twice. Which means you cannot separate the one flesh into male and female )

• Jesus who said, “Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” Will not let Paul and churches separate them into master and slave (even if the master loves the slave)

• Jesus who said, “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?” will not assign the husband to be the spiritual leader of his wife. The husband is not Jesus he is a human with limitations and sins and if he will spiritually lead his wife, who might be far more spiritual than him, they will both fall into a pit.

• Jesus, who is a fair God will not punish the woman for Eve’s sin and forgive the man for Adam’s sin.

• Jesus appeared to a woman (Mary Magdalene) first and asked her to deliver the good news to his “men” disciples and to instruct them to go to Galilee to see him (apostle to the apostles).

Paul denied that Jesus appeared first to Mary, Paul never even mentioned Mary when he confidently listed the order of the lord’s appearing after resurrection.

• Jesus refused to interfere between 2 brothers Luke 12:14

If the son of God did not appoint himself judge and executor between tow brothers, will he appoint Paul or church leaders to be the judge and the executor between and husband and wife whom God counts as one?

• It is not the feminism movement that bothers church leaders and men; it is the loss of power, authority and headship that bothers them.

• Where did Jesus ask the disciples (or Paul) to punish the women for Eve’s sin? Where did Jesus assign the disciples (or Paul) to separate the husband and wife by setting up set of roles for each? Where did Jesus ask the disciples to assign each man a slave (wife)?

• God ordered Abram to do as his wife said. Why I never hear this in a wedding ceremony or a sermon. Church leaders took the part where Sarah called her husband my master and ignored God’s instruction to Abram to do what his wife said.

• Paul and churches assigned the married woman a nun role but with more crosses to carry, they think that submitting to the man is the crown for the woman(of course crown of thrones)

• The message for women is that if they do not submit they are not obeying God and for sure, they will go to hell. Please read Jesus words about salvation, did it include anything that says that women will not be saved if they do not submit to their husbands?
• In the miracle of the 5 loaves and 2 fish, did Jesus say to feed the men first because they were created first? Did he order the women to clean and collect the left over because this is the role of women?
• One of the roles set up by churches is that the man provide for the woman (so that he will have authority over her, leaving her cornered in a very weak spot). Jesus allowed women to provide for him and follow him like the disciples
• For priests and pastors who try to make Paul’s instructions to women sound Christian, it is like adding spice to rotten food.

“No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak, for the patch pulls away from the cloak, and a worse tear is made. Neither is new wine put into old wineskins; otherwise, the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins are destroyed; but new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved” (Matthew 9:16–17, NRSV).

For all pastors, priests, bishops, servants or anyone who preach Paul’s rules for the roles of women and men in marriage and in the church. If these rules are not from God for each woman and man for our time and until end of days, you are committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

In addition, if Paul’s rules for the roles of women and men in marriage and in the church, which is applied by all churches, have caused a woman or a girl to stumble in their faith or a man to stumble with pride then this verse is for you.

“If anyone causes one of these little ones — those who believe in me — to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.”

Click to expand...

Jesus_loves_us_all said:

Do you mean believing in Jesus is not enough?

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Jesus_loves_us_all said:

Paul and Peter are saints who died in the name of Jesus, what they said is for their time. Not everything they said is from the Holey Spirit, and if it was from the Holey Spirit, it was for a specific people at a specific time. Only Jesus words are for all people and till the end of days.
If everyone concentrate on Jesus's teachings which are very spiritual, they will lead more people to know and love him

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Jesus_loves_us_all said:

I believe he was a saint, but I think what the Holey Spirit says depend on the situation and time. only what Jesus said is for all people and all times. I don't think even Paul planned or knew that his letters will become a bible and that he will be equal to Jesus who died for us

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Jesus_loves_us_all said:

For long time I was questioning the Christianity of Paul as I see it very different from the Christianity of Jesus.

Before writing this blog. I sought the help of many priests and pastors and I was more shocked of what I was told

One told me, without Paul, we would not be saved. One told me, without Paul there would be no Christianity. One told me, we read the bible as a package, which means that Jesus’s bible has no value without Paul’s bible or Jesus bible is not complete with Paul’s letters. One told me that one day we might understand why Paul said something different from Jesus. One told me that one day we might understand why the blood of Jesus is not enough for the women’s salvation.

Why should we follow Paul’s letters, which are random texts and directed to specific groups at specific time? Why are we so desperate to follow humans instead of following God?

Do we never question Paul’s writings and blindly follow?

Christianity was the religion of Jesus. Early Christianity (before Paul changed it) was based around the teachings of Jesus regarding love, forgiveness, morality, values , how to be of a good nature and how we should love each other as Jesus loved us. Christianity of Jesus was about values while the Christianity of Paul is about doctrine.

Jesus built people while Paul built churches.

You can really see the differences in the two teachings when you read Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels then contrast them with Paul who never even quoted Jesus once.

For all Christians, study the Bible with your heart and mind and do not just blindly follow.

No one wants to stand ashamed before God in the resurrection because of following church fathers blindly who most of them were no even able to read.

Paul and women

As a woman, I believe that the demeaning language of Paul about women is not from the Holey spirit. The woman since she is born until the end of her life, she carries so many crosses without the extra crosses Paul wanted to add.

Marriage as per Paul’s instructions is a prescription for failure, the marriage will not be blessed and be successful simply because the wife is submitting and the husband is leading, regardless of who is better suited for what. The marriage as per Jesus is built on love and unity, marriage is blessed when husband and wife love each other (not one love and one submit), respecting each other, sacrificing for each other, praying together, discussing and deciding everything together.

• God is love. God who loves me will never degrade me.

• God who asked me to call him my father will never ask me to call my husband my master.

• Jesus, who never silenced a woman, will never silence me.

• Jesus, who never asked me to submit to him, will never ask me to submit to a man.

• Jesus, who did not condemn the adulterer for her own sin, will not ask Paul to condemn and punish me for Eve’s sin.

• Jesus, who do not allow authority among us, will not allow my husband to use authority over me.

• Jesus, who encouraged Mary to learn directly from him, will not ask me to learn only through a human (my husband).

• Jesus who answered all the Samaritan woman questions will not ask me not to ask questions in the church allowing me only to ask my husband who might pass wrong teachings to me.

• Jesus never used the word “submit” as Christianity is about love not submission; Jesus said, “love each other as I loved you” not “submit to each other or for a gender to submit to the other gender because Christianly is not about the flesh.

• Jesus who said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh” (Jesus repeated the one flesh twice. Which means you cannot separate the one flesh into male and female )

• Jesus who said, “Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” Will not let Paul and churches separate them into master and slave (even if the master loves the slave)

• Jesus who said, “Can the blind lead the blind? Will they not both fall into a pit?” will not assign the husband to be the spiritual leader of his wife. The husband is not Jesus he is a human with limitations and sins and if he will spiritually lead his wife, who might be far more spiritual than him, they will both fall into a pit.

• Jesus, who is a fair God will not punish the woman for Eve’s sin and forgive the man for Adam’s sin.

• Jesus appeared to a woman (Mary Magdalene) first and asked her to deliver the good news to his “men” disciples and to instruct them to go to Galilee to see him (apostle to the apostles).

Paul denied that Jesus appeared first to Mary, Paul never even mentioned Mary when he confidently listed the order of the lord’s appearing after resurrection.

• Jesus refused to interfere between 2 brothers Luke 12:14

If the son of God did not appoint himself judge and executor between tow brothers, will he appoint Paul or church leaders to be the judge and the executor between and husband and wife whom God counts as one?

• It is not the feminism movement that bothers church leaders and men; it is the loss of power, authority and headship that bothers them.

• Where did Jesus ask the disciples (or Paul) to punish the women for Eve’s sin? Where did Jesus assign the disciples (or Paul) to separate the husband and wife by setting up set of roles for each? Where did Jesus ask the disciples to assign each man a slave (wife)?

• God ordered Abram to do as his wife said. Why I never hear this in a wedding ceremony or a sermon. Church leaders took the part where Sarah called her husband my master and ignored God’s instruction to Abram to do what his wife said.

• Paul and churches assigned the married woman a nun role but with more crosses to carry, they think that submitting to the man is the crown for the woman(of course crown of thrones)

• The message for women is that if they do not submit they are not obeying God and for sure, they will go to hell. Please read Jesus words about salvation, did it include anything that says that women will not be saved if they do not submit to their husbands?
• In the miracle of the 5 loaves and 2 fish, did Jesus say to feed the men first because they were created first? Did he order the women to clean and collect the left over because this is the role of women?
• One of the roles set up by churches is that the man provide for the woman (so that he will have authority over her, leaving her cornered in a very weak spot). Jesus allowed women to provide for him and follow him like the disciples
• For priests and pastors who try to make Paul’s instructions to women sound Christian, it is like adding spice to rotten food.

“No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak, for the patch pulls away from the cloak, and a worse tear is made. Neither is new wine put into old wineskins; otherwise, the skins burst, and the wine is spilled, and the skins are destroyed; but new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved” (Matthew 9:16–17, NRSV).

For all pastors, priests, bishops, servants or anyone who preach Paul’s rules for the roles of women and men in marriage and in the church. If these rules are not from God for each woman and man for our time and until end of days, you are committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

In addition, if Paul’s rules for the roles of women and men in marriage and in the church, which is applied by all churches, have caused a woman or a girl to stumble in their faith or a man to stumble with pride then this verse is for you.

“If anyone causes one of these little ones — those who believe in me — to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.”

Click to expand...

eleos1954 said:

Paul was chosen by the Lord to be His instrument. Who are we to question God and who He chooses to work through?

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Jesus_loves_us_all said:

Thanks for your reply. I am not angry, I really think that Paul changed the Christianity. I believe Paul is a saint; but not each thing that he said is from the Holey Spirit and should be applied till the end of the world. what he wrote in his letters could be from the holey spirit for a specific culture, time or environment. Paul did not mean for his letters to become a bible. wouldn't it be enough to follow what Jesus taught us in the 4 gospels?

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