Putting events in Revelation in chronological order?

Riberra

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I was questioning #325 who wrote:

Revealingtimes:

Was Paul talking about being a dead man when He said: I knew a man taken into the third heaven?
Did John say He was dead when He was taken up into heaven? NO! They were alive.
In Revelation 4:1-2 John say that he was in the SPIRIT ....he have not ascended to Heaven with his body.----->the whole thing is a vision.

In clear John's body have never quit the Island of Patmos.

Revelation 14:1-2
1 After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, [a voice] as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.

2 Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne;

The vision(s) that he had can be compared to what we call today virtual reality.
 
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mark kennedy

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I was questioning #325 who wrote:

Revealingtimes:

Was Paul talking about being a dead man when He said: I knew a man taken into the third heaven?
Did John say He was dead when He was taken up into heaven? NO! They were alive.

Andy Centek
Paul may well have had a near death experience, I really don't know. John didn't.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Paul may well have had a near death experience, I really don't know. John didn't.

Paul didn't have a near death experience. It was either a vision, or he was physically transported there. The deacon, Phillip was transported to another area, so anything is possible with God.
 
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Douggg

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The deacon, Phillip was transported to another area, so anything is possible with God.

We can depend on and trust God, that anything is possible with Him, and a good reminder.
 
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iamlamad

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Who wrote about it? In other words, where is it written?
John was sent to the island of Patmos by the Romans. They tried to kill him by boiling him in oil. God protected him. So they sent him to the island. That is where he wrote it.
 
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iamlamad

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-Salvation does NOT mean that you will be taken to Heaven while you are alive.

-Salvation mean that you will not end into the lake of fire like the unrepentant sinners [Revelation 20:15].


Yes , unto His coming Jesus will destroy the sinners [all those with the mark of the Beast]--->will be gathered at Armageddon along the armies of the World....Revelation 16:15-16 ----Revelation 19:11-21

That DAY of sudden destruction IS The Day Of THE Coming of Jesus as a thief [Revelation 16:15-16] to destroy the sinners [all those who will have taken the mark and have worshiped the Beast/AC]....will be gathered at Armageddon along the armies of the World [Revelation 19:11-21].

Revelation 16:15-16
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that WATCHED, and keepeth his garments, lest he walked naked, and they see his shame. 16 And they gathered them together into the place which is called in Hebrew Har-magedon.
17 And the seventh poured out his bowl upon the air; and there came forth a great voice out of the temple, from the throne, saying, It is done:

"Salvation" comes from the Greek word, Soteria. This Greek word has many meanings:

Strong's:
deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation
deliverance from the molestation of enemies

in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the soul's safety or salvation

of Messianic salvation
salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.

Notice that the first definition is deliverance. this is the meaning in 1 thes. 5.

While those living in darkness get the "sudden destruction" worldwide earthquake, those living in the light of the gospel will be delivered. How? Of course by being caught up with Jesus. Those in darkness with live under God's wrath, but those living in Christ will be delivered.

"Yes , unto His coming" Are you thinking of His chapter 19 coming? Sorry, His wrath will begin at the 6th seal and continue on throughout the entire 70th week.

That DAY of sudden destruction IS The Day Of THE Coming of Jesus as a thief [Revelation 16:15-16]
No, it really ISN'T. You just imagine it is. And Paul's "Sudden destruction" will come at the 6th seal, which will be opened over 7 years from Jesus coming as per chapter 19. The truth is, HE IS COMING TWICE MORE, and both times it will be as a thief. But the first time, as per 1 thes. 4, He only comes to the air. He does not touch down.

You have heard this over and over and over, but you are not listening. Why? Because you think you know, when in fact, you don't. If you knew you did not know, you would be all ears.

Just so you will hear it once again, There will be 7 long years of judgment between the 6th seal and Rev. 19 when He comes in power to the battle of Armageddon.
 
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BABerean2

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Notice that the first definition is deliverance. this is the meaning in 1 thes. 5.

The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that the timing of the event at the end of chapter 4 is revealed at the beginning of chapter 5 on "the day of the Lord", when He "comes as a thief".

The same language in 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16 reveal that it is a Second Coming event.


.
 
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Riberra

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"Salvation" comes from the Greek word, Soteria. This Greek word has many meanings:

Strong's:
deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation
deliverance from the molestation of enemies

in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the SOUL's safety or salvation

of Messianic salvation
salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.
When it is said that the BELIEVERS are SAVED by the Blood of Jesus ---->That is the Messianic Salvation definition which apply [Jesus SAVE our SOUL ----but our body when we die will end in the grave until the resurrection [of those who sleep in Jesus] Unto the Coming of Jesus...

NOTE that If you are still alive and REMAIN unto the coming of Jesus and you have not taken the mark nor worshiped the Beast /AC, you will be caught up alive along with the resurrected dead believers to meet Jesus in the AIR Just before the Battle of Armageddon...That is the 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 caught up to meet Jesus in the clouds in the AIR UNTO HIS COMING...few moments before He touch the ground.

You own it [the Salvation] by keeping the Faith in Jesus until you die ..no matter if it is from natural death ...or under torture like the 12 apostles.

Question:
What makes you so sure that you are more worthy than the 12 Apostles to avoid the same kind of tribulation that they were submitted in their times ..if the end time tribulation is to happen tomorrow ?

The Wrath of God will be poured out in the 7 Vials of the Wrath of God To AVENGE the blood of the Christians upon those who have taken the mark[Revelation 16] after that the Christians who will refuse to take the mark will have been mostly all killed.

SALVATION
in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the SOUL's safety or salvation

of Messianic salvation
salvation as the present possession of all true Christians

future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.
 
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mark kennedy

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Paul didn't have a near death experience. It was either a vision, or he was physically transported there. The deacon, Phillip was transported to another area, so anything is possible with God.
I'm just saying, that's one possibility, honestly no one knows. We know he had special revelation but to by knowledge he never wrote about it, John did.
 
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1stcenturylady

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I'm just saying, that's one possibility, honestly no one knows. We know he had special revelation but to by knowledge he never wrote about it, John did.

John's was definitely a vision while he was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day.
 
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What is your process for putting the events detailed in Revelation in chronological order?
This is a great idea for a topic of discussion. This thread should be interesting and that maybe we all will learn a few things here and there which we failed to take into account previously.

For starters, we have to look for clues in the text, regardless what order the chapters themselves are in in the the book of Revelation.

Here's an example of something I brought up in the past.

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Compare this to any of the events recorded in Revelation 11 and Revelation 13, for example, and in those two chapters what will one not find being depicted during those events? This for one---And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains

Shouldn't that be telling us that, just because Chapter 6 precedes these two chapters, that doesn't mean the events recorded in Revelation 6:12-17 necessarily precede the events recorded in the latter two chapters? Not to mention, if one checks out Matthew 24, we are told there that the sun becomes dark after the tribulation of those days. Apparently the tribulation of those days are referring to the events recorded in Revelation 13.

So, basically this gives a glimpse in to how I might try and determine chronology throughout the book of Revelation. Others might have different procedures altogether, which may work as well as the procedures I take, or may even work better than the procedures I employ.
Has anyone ever accomplished it yet?

https://www.google.com/search?clien...hUKEwiewYfV47DkAhVDgK0KHdnsATYQ4dUDCAo&uact=5

The Chronological Structure of the Book of Revelation – Samuel Whitefield

The book of Revelation can be approached as a chronological story. Viewing it chronologically helps to make sense of the various parts of the book. Like many Old Testament prophecies, there are details in these sections that are in some ways similar to ancient prophecy, but when we look at all these sections together they do not match any moment in ancient history.

When the book of Revelation is viewed chronologically, there are 4 parts in the structure of the book of Revelation with the fourth part being the largest consisting of 5 chronological sections in which the events occur in sequential order.
===================
Part 1: Seeking A Chronological Order To Revelation

This is the Book of Revelation as a working scenario. The purpose is to place its verses in chronological order, continually moving verses to remove contradictions as more is learned. Please feel free to share your comments and insights so we can eventually get a clear picture of what Revelation is saying. INSIGHTS WILL BE ADDED TO THIS CHRONOLOGY, MEANING IT WILL BE CONSTANTLY GROWING AND CHANGING. I want to make three quick points to remember in reading through this document.
==========================
http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

The mark of the beast. Armageddon. The Four Horsemen. The false prophet. Babylon the great. Falling stars, stinging locusts, and giant hailstones. The seven last plagues. The bottomless pit. The lake of fire.
These images of terror and catastrophe from the book of Revelation have greatly influenced the thinking of millions of Christians through the ages.
Even the secular press uses images such as "Armageddon" and "four horsemen of the Apocalypse" to describe calamities in our world. Despite 1900 years of fascination with the book of Revelation, John’s letter to the seven Churches of Asia continues to be misunderstood. And badly misinterpreted!

One misconception shared by some is that the Revelation has nothing of importance to say to us. It’s considered to be merely a bizarre piece of first-century writing with no relevance for today. Another wrong idea is that the Revelation is a code book describing a specific outline of history written in advance.
Countless interpreters have tried to "decode" the book from a historical perspective to find all the major world events of the past 1900 years.
Others interpret it more literally as a handbook for predicting the cataclysmic events that will bring the final wrath of God and the end of the world. The claims of Christian groups from the early church to the present — that the Revelation pinpoints the events, personalities, and time periods of "the end" — have all failed.
This should be a caution to believers for using the book of Revelation as a predictive handbook.
Other people’s interpretation of the book of Revelation is based on the "Pan Theory" — it’s all going to pan out in the end! Beloved brethren, the fact is, it’s not panning out the way the end-time prognosticators are projecting!

Through the years I have ministered the Word in Bible studies, seminars, and church services of various types.
When there has been a question and answer session, or when opportunity was granted for people to request teaching along a particular line, the most often requested subject has been — THE BOOK OF REVELATION!
I have met people who were babes in Christ, carnal Christians whose lives were a mess, they had incredible problems and needs, including deliverance, and instead of prayer or counsel or messages that would help them overcome and grow up in Christ, they wanted me to teach them the book of Revelation!
"Yeah, brother, that’s for me, lay it on me, I want the book of Revelation!
 
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pshun2404

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Putting Revelations in Chronological order is not possible because it records a number of sequences that each culminate in the Parousia (the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ) and so overlap. There is only one second coming (not two or one and a half). Also like all prophecy some visions are received as out of order. For example Daniel 7 happens after Daniel 9 in temporal history.
 
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iamlamad

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Putting Revelations in Chronological order is not possible because it records a number of sequences that each culminate in the Parousia (the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ) and so overlap. There is only one second coming (not two or one and a half). Also like all prophecy some visions are received as out of order. For example Daniel 7 happens after Daniel 9 in temporal history.
I disagree: it is VERY possible: just read it as written: it is in perfect order except for a few parenthesis.

However, from chapter 11 onward, there are 5 parallel countdown's to the end, plus John's own narrative - which makes 6 parallel paths. From chapter 4 where the vision begins to chapter 11 is in perfect order. From that point on, each of the 5 parallel paths have a staggered beginning and John has the beginnings in perfect order. In other words, as much as is possible, Revelation is in the very order these things will happen.

In general, the events in a given chapter will happen after the events of a previous chapter and before the events of a later chapter.

Since the seals are sealing a book, and the book cannot be opened until all 7 seals are opened first, it is impossible to move a seal to a later part of the book, or move a trumpet (the trumpets are inside the book) back to a seal. These things are efforts of futility.

Rev. 11:4-13 is a parenthesis. Meaning, the two witnesses are killed just 3.5 days before the end of the week, NOT before the midpoint. They begin their witness just 3.5 days before the midpoint. Most of their testimony therefore is in the last half of the week. The earthquake when the two witnesses are raises is the very same earthquake as seen at the 7th vial that ends the week.

Most of chapter 13 is written as a parenthesis - showing us what the two beasts will be doing later on in the week.
 
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ebedmelech

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To try and make Revelation chronological, is to put the book in total disarray. Revelation is more repetitive than chronological. Visions are presented from different views.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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To try and make Revelation chronological, is to put the book in total disarray.
Revelation is more repetitive than chronological. Visions are presented from different views.
Sounds good to me.
I agree it would be easier to show where 2 similar events are showing in Revelation and what I will be attempting to do.
Armageddon/Gog-Magog is one, which some Christians agree with.

Armegeddon and Gog-magog same event?

  1. *
    I view them as the same event
    16 vote(s)
    22.9%
  2. I view them as different events
    43 vote(s)
    61.4%
  3. I am not sure
    7 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. Does it really matter?
    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
========================================
2 other events I feel are the same is in Revelation 6:16 [viewed from the land] and Revelation 20:11[viewed from heaven]. Just a view I have been working on......

John 11:48
If-ever we should be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him and shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place/topon <5117> and the Nation.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the face<4383> of the Lord
, and from the glory of His power;

Revelation 12:8

And not he is strong,
neither Place was found of them still in the Heaven.

View from the Land?

Revelation 6:16

And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks: 'Be falling upon us! and hide us!
from Face of the One-sitting/kaqhmenon <2521> (5740) upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb-kin

View from heaven?


Revelation 20:11

And I saw a great white throne.
And the One-sitting/kaqhmenon <2521> (5740) on it, from Who's Face fled the Land and the Heaven and Place not was found to-them.
 
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iamlamad

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To try and make Revelation chronological, is to put the book in total disarray. Revelation is more repetitive than chronological. Visions are presented from different views.
WRONG! Just read it as written: seals first, then trumpets, then vials.
 
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BABerean2

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I disagree: it is VERY possible: just read it as written: it is in perfect order except for a few parenthesis.


Christ returns with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as in the Olivet Discourse, in Revelation chapter 6. They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, unless the Lamb is present.

Christ returns in Revelation 11:15-18, with the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18.


Christ returns in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.


Christ returns "as a thief" at Armageddon, in Revelation 16:15-16.


Christ returns in chapter 19.

Christ returns when the fire comes at the end of chapter 20, with the same judgment of the dead found in Revelation 11:18.


2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


.
 
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iamlamad

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Christ returns with signs in the sun, moon, and stars, as in the Olivet Discourse, in Revelation chapter 6. They would not be hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, unless the Lamb is present.

Christ returns in Revelation 11:15-18, with the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible.
The "time of the judgment of the dead" is found in Revelation 11:18.


Christ returns in the "harvest" of chapter 14, which is related to the parable of the wheat and tares from Matthew chapter 13.


Christ returns "as a thief" at Armageddon, in Revelation 16:15-16.


Christ returns in chapter 19.

Christ returns when the fire comes at the end of chapter 20, with the same judgment of the dead found in Revelation 11:18.


2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;


.
Jesus will come to the clouds (no touchdown) just before the 6th seal. Perhaps He will be visible for a moment: know one knows. OF COURSE they had hide from God and/or from the lamb when they know THE DAY has started. People try to hide from him TODAY!

No, sorry, NO COMING at the 7th trumpet, for it is not Paul's "last trump." Paul did not say "last trump in the bible." His last trump will undoubtedly be the last trump of the series of trumps at the Fast of Trumpets of SOME year.

Sorry, NO COMING in chapter 14 either. That is myth. This is SYMBOLIC of the harvest of those beheaded first, and then of those killed at the Battle of Armegeddon: therefore also prophetic - but certainly no coming.

"As a thief" is NOT a coming, only telling us HOW He will come as found in Rev. 19. Remember, He descends riding on a white horse? See how plain that coming is written? That is because it is a REAL coming.

AGain you can find a REAL coming in 1 thes. 4, but only to the air.

In chapter 20, Christ is HERE, having came in chapter 19.
 
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To try and make Revelation chronological, is to put the book in total disarray. Revelation is more repetitive than chronological. Visions are presented from different views.
Well, I guess we can agree on two things.
 
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