I appreciate your change of presentation, but for now I will continue to block-quote you.
It took about a month for you to cook up a reply. I must be on to something if you have that much trouble trying to refute me
By the way, I found a fun string of jokes,
here.
Loved those. I went to work and immediately told the meteor shower joke. When I tell people clean jokes it always throws them off, lol. My boss and a few of us were talking about allergies the other day, when I mentioned that I'm not allergic to anything, my boss quipped, "Maybe to clean jokes". So I said, "Did you hear that McDonald's is coming out with their own meatless burger, called the Beyond Burger? They had to delay the launch though because all the patties were stolen by the
Yamburgler!"
I would say that laughing at something implies at least partial condoning of that thing, and therefore laughing at a rape joke would make it more likely that you would turn a blind eye, etc.
Yes, laughing at a rape joke is condoning rape jokes and makes you more likely to turn a blind eye to rape jokes. Now
if I was saying that it's okay to laugh at an actual rape in progress, then that would be condoning actual rape, but that's clearly not what I'm saying. I think you
meant that laughing at something that is related to something else condones that something else, but you see how that already starts to sound silly, right?
Good.
Sufficient for what? Someone who is willing to make jokes about rape is subordinating rape to humor more than someone who is not. That's what I was thinking.
Wait... You just agreed that actual rape isn't subordinate to humor, only the topic of rape is subordinate to humor...
What's the difference between a topic and a situation? Is it possible that situations can be off-limits to humor, but topics cannot? Finally, if some situations are problematic then some jokes are impermissible--namely the jokes that would be told in a particular situation.
A topic is the thing you're talking about, the situation is where, when, and who you tell it to. Just because I wouldn't tell a Jewish joke inside of a Jewish Synagogue during church services doesn't mean that the joke should never be told.
No, certain events are of a certain nature regardless of the audience and honoree. An award ceremony for the medal of honor is always 'somber' regardless of the attendees.
I agree that medal of honor ceremonies have traditionally been somber, but you're trying to show me that they
should be.
Would he? Joking about that act disrespects people who save babies and the value of babies themselves. It's not funny that babies are saved from death.
He would. He likes to say, "I only roast the ones I love". He had a little series on Netflix called "Historic Roasts" where he and his dais would dress up like folks from history and roast someone acting as some historical figure. He roasted Anne Frank and Gilbert Godfrey was there dressed in a Hitler Youth uniform. He's just as tasteless as I am. And I know that
you and
most folk don't think there's anything funny about saving babies, but there is a whole genre of jokes devoted to dead babies. Most of which rely on pure shock value as a crutch, but a few are actually clever.
Sugar is essential to human health, whether you like chocolate or vanilla.
I didn't say anything about human health, and I specifically avoided using a word as vague as "good". Chocolate ice cream is
not objectively
tasty.
Humor involves a twist by definition. If people get exactly what they expect then there is no humor.
That's like saying there's no such thing as a magic trick, because if people expect to be tricked, then it isn't a trick.
Thank you. This is a great point that I sometimes miss.
....Someone agreeing with me is so rare around here it always sounds like sarcasm. That wasn't sarcasm was it?
I don't agree with this. N.T. Wright writes on this topic in the context of cultural stories and myths, but I think his point applies here as well.
So then what sort or values do I derive from watching an episode of Beavis and Butthead? I mean, I value the entertainment, but I think you mean something more by "value-laden", right? I thought you just agreed that some stories are just for entertainment...
They can't be compartmentalized. That's a fundamental error of our culture. We think we can binge watch superhero movies and not come away acting like superheroes.
They can be compartmentalized, and I do compartmentalize them. We've been talking about rape jokes, but I've never witnessed an attempted rape. However, I tell spousal abuse jokes, and those should fall under the same sort of argument you've been making, ya? Here's another fun anecdote.
A long time ago, when the wife and I were still dating, I moved in with her and she was living with her sister and brother-in-law at the time. Their marriage was on the rocks, mostly because they're both awful people, so I had to watch them fight a lot. One night though, we're all at the house and her sister had a female friend over. The husband and wife get to screaming in the kitchen, I paid no mind because that was normal for them. Then the husband swept a bunch of pots and pans off of a counter top and screamed at her, "You want me to beat the [bleep] out of you right here?!" I hopped up off the couch and spun into the kitchen and stood in the door way, he saw me and shrank. I'm a big guy. 6'3", 300lbs. So he starts inching towards the stairs just saying, "You'll go to jail! You'll go to jail!". So I told him, "For what? No cop is going to arrest me after we all just saw you smack your wife!" And all the ladies got a big grin on their face. I shouted some more threatening obscenities and told him to go hide in his room, in as unkind of a manner as I could muster. I didn't see much of him after that, and he even stopped yelling with his wife. I wouldn't have even cared if they went back to their shouting matches, but I'm not going to let a fella hit a lady. He was too scared to even be on the same floor as me after that.
So you see, I can laugh at the topic of a guy punching his wife, and still take it very seriously when a guy even
threatens to punch his wife. I didn't have to think about it, I didn't hesitate, for a big fatso, I'm pretty spry, and I was in that kitchen in a jiff.
I'd like to think I'd do the same in any situation. I can't say for certain I wouldn't turn into a coward if someone has a gun, but I've asserted myself physically in a lot of scenarios. I'm not afraid of people. And although I tell a lot of misogynistic jokes, I get extra perturbed when guys are mean to gals. They have a pretty rough existence from the time that they're little, so picking on them in anything but the most playful of ways is a big no-no in my book.
I know as far as evidence goes, anecdotes aren't all that strong, but I doubt there is any other kind of evidence about this scenario.
As far as emulating stories go though, I don't act like a superhero, and I keep up on all of them. I mostly enjoy kung-fu movies when I want to see an action flick, but I don't act like a martial arts super star... Well, one time, a long time ago in high school, I dropped acid and watched The Matrix, and afterwards I was practicing kung-fu moves in my bathroom mirror... But in general, no, I don't emulate the movies I watch. I watched Trainspotting and Requiem for a Dream, but I'm not a junkie; I watched all the Lethal Weapons, and all of the Rush Hours, but I'm not a cop; I watched A.I. and Ex Machina but I'm not a robot.
In what ways do you think I must emulate the movies or television I watch or the jokes I tell? I just see it as separating fantasy and reality.
Thoughts and words are real things that refer to real things...
Let me rephrase for precision. The abstract concepts that thoughts and words point to aren't the actual specific acts that occur.
I wouldn't call it logical inconsistency. I would call it a mis-alignment of your emotions and sense of humor with your sense of morality.
What's wrong with the way that its aligned, though? I get to laugh at any joke, and still take real acts very seriously. Sounds like the best way to be, honestly. I can act morally, enforce serious infractions of morals, and never get upset by words.
I'm sure you are, but that would be immoral for me.
(This last sentence is an example of a joke that we can both laugh at for different reasons. I can laugh at myself because I do not know if my position is correct, and you can laugh at me because--in many cases--I do not mind being laughed at. Some jokes are funny for a variety of reasons. I like that kind of a joke.)
The funniest part about it was that you phrased it like a moral relativist. What's immoral for you is moral for me, lol.