A question to protestants

Jonaitis

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Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.

"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.

I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.

So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?

In liberal, egalitarian churches they twist this clear passage to allow women into the ministry.

I hope and pray you continue this journey to explore beyond what you grew up in and find the place to be. :)
 
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com7fy8

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Not only can people add things which are not in the Bible, but ones claiming to be sola scriptura can leave things out. For example, we have what qualifies a man to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. Ones take shortcuts, only training young people, but they do not test if and how well a man takes care of his own home. They can be looking for gifts, but not maturity of character.

And what can happen is a person in the pulpit is really a church administrator who can give some kind of a sermon. But the person is not mainly about prayer and ministry of the word, but handling politics and finances and . . . other admin stuff. Oh, and the sermons can have to do a lot with . . . administration of a person's own life . . . little about how to become in our character, how to please God, how to personally submit to our Heavenly Father in His own peace > Colossians 3:15 > how to relate as God's family > Ephesians 5:21, 4:31-5:2. There can be a lot about how to get God to bless you and take care of your problems, but not really how to love any and all people the way Jesus wants.

And what about 1 Timothy 2:1-4? > "first of all", our Apostle Paul says, here < yet, how much attention does this get?

Things can have a way of getting left out.
 
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Not David

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Persecution, jailing and or killing other Christians for opposing the doctrinal view of an EO leader?
Did that happen?

And do you claim that all doctrines of the EO can be supported sola scriptura? Or are some condemned if using the sola scriptura method of Acts 17:11?
I'm sure if Adventism was the official religion of a country, they would favor it above the other religions, even by allowing Sabbath to give a day of rest.
 
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RaymondG

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Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.

"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.

I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.

So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?
There are scriptures that state that, in christ, there is neither bond nor free....male nor female. Also, it states that they who walk after the spirit no longer mind the things of the flesh.

If, while hearing the word of the Lord, you cant get past the appearance of the flesh, there might be more important things to think about.......in this case I would only be concerned with working out my soul salvation in fear and trembling.....leaving no time to study doctrines and denominational differences.
 
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com7fy8

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There are people who feel they need to be ministers, so they can prove that God called them to be ministers. And then what happens? They stress out and get wasted, while trying to control people and . . . prove they are called to minister. But Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" >

"'Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:28-30)

This gets left out by ones who add to the scriptures, and by ones who claim to be only by the Bible. They might have some number of correct ideas and have a church culture system of extra stuff or proofs they are by the Bible only, but they do not personally submit to Jesus in His love's "rest for your souls".

There is a basic of any Christian ministerial calling >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

Every child of God > "called in one body" > is called to personally submit to how our Father personally rules each of us in His own peace. And we discover what He has us doing, in this peace > what our practical calling is, by simply doing what our Father has us doing in His peace :) :idea:

So, what we do while stressing and getting messed emotionally is not what God has us doing in His "rest for your souls" > "the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus," we have guaranteed in Philippians 4:6-7; yet, ones leave this out. God's peace is almighty to guard our "hearts and minds", God's word guarantees!!! God is almighty; His peace guarding our hearts and minds is almighty.

We find all Jesus desires to share with us, by submitting to how He leads and guides us . . . each of us, personally, in this peace. Because our Father is so personal with every one of us His children. But ones leave out how personally God's word says our Father shares with and cares for each of us > Romans 5:5, Hebrews 12:4-14, Colossians 3:15, 1 Peter 3:4.

So, any time we start to surrender to and go along with boredom and loneliness and other sorts of complaining, and unforgiveness and arguing and bitterness and lusts, and worry and hurry and anxiety and frustration > this is not obeying how our Shepherd cares for us in His love's "rest for your souls". And so, stress-out and burn-out are signs of how we are not doing God's will, certainly not His calling which includes being His "examples to the flock" >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Christian ministry, therefore, includes being good examples . . . not only showing and telling, but examples in the sight of God > being submissive to God in His peace, gentle and quiet > 1 Peter 3:4 < so we are pleasing to Him. Because whatever is really going on inside of us is what we can be spreading to make others the same way . . . including our children.
 
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renniks

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Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14
Context. Paul was addressing a particular problem in a particular church.
 
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Unfortunately, SOME churches have let themselves think that Scripture can be viewed in a different way from how it long has been seen. However, those Protestant churches which do that are not saying that they are adding other sources of guidance to Scripture (as the Catholic churches do); they are instead re-interpreting Scripture--not that that is a good excuse.

In any case, your own objective is to affiliate with a church that has not given into modernism or social relevancy, etc., and there are indeed many which have not.
This is where people are more allied to Churchianity than true Christianity. If a person is putting a church first as the basis of their faith, they are following a false gospel and worshiping another Christ. They are on the road to condemnation because they have departed from the true Christ of the Bible.

Some churches are so infused with paganised ritual and ceremony, praying to departed saints instead of to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that they are in no way comparable to the true Christian church, that is made up of all those who are genuinely converted to Christ and who put the Person of Christ first in their allegiance and worship before any church, pope, or archbishop.
 
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Pedra

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Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.

"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.

I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.

So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?
Seems like the LORD is opening your eyes. It happened to me also, though I was not Catholic. I suggest you find a protestant denomination that doesn't go against what the Bible instructs, they are out there. I had my eyes opened and Sola Scriptura is why I left my old denom and found an independent denom that teaches & follows Bible only, no added human traditions or doctrines. May God bless you & guide you in His Word.
 
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mmksparbud

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I'm sure if Adventism was the official religion of a country, they would favor it above the other religions, even by allowing Sabbath to give a day of rest.

We are against civil laws declaring what should be a matter of conscience. As a religion we could not endorse Sabbath day only laws. Our lawyers have fought for, and won, the right of other religious individuals to practice their faith own faiths---even Muslims.
 
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com7fy8

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"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Context. Paul was addressing a particular problem in a particular church.
Well, it says for a woman to learn submissively. But isn't this also how a man needs to learn??

After all, James says we all need to learn "with meekness" > as I understand James > "receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls." (in James 1:21) Plus, leaders are to be "examples to the flock," we have in 1 Peter 5:3.

So, if any man is a leader, this means he needs to take the lead in doing what everyone needs to do . . . including being submissive, himself, in learning God's word. So, I see the possibility that Paul is telling ladies to follow their good examples.

And so, if this is correct, then Paul is not giving a cultural thing, here, but telling women to do what is a general principle for men, too . . . and for any leaders who take the lead in doing what ladies need to do.

Also > here, Paul says for a woman not to take authority "over". There is a difference between dominating authority "over" someone, and humble and submissive authority in mutual relating >

"submitting to one another in the fear of God." (Ephesians 5:21)

Paul, elsewhere, gives a clear example of how a lady does have authority with her man > 1 Corinthians 7:4. I would say if she has power "over" his body, then she has some kind of authority with him. But this is mutual.

Plus, I think we all know of women who can be bossy and they teach in a dominating way over others, not humbly. So, I consider Paul can mean unhumble teaching. Even if a Christian lady does not say a word, still her good example will teach us; so she can't get out of teaching us guys . . . if she is a good example of how to relate in love > for example, here is how a lady can help her man, "without a word" > 1 Peter 3:4.

And I have had fun, when a woman blasted me with "women can't preach!" or "women can't teach!!" A woman can be overbearing, treating me like I am ignorant . . . preaching at me that women can't preach!! And I say, "you just preached that to me." I could say, "Have you decided somehow that I am not a man?"

But Paul does say Adam was formed first and Eve transgressed. But Adam also fell, I understand. And now it can seem, culturally, that girls do better in school, than the guys do. Why? Maybe Adam lost more, was more complex, so falling could do more damage. I don't know, of course.

But it is good to know who your head is.
 
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zoidar

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Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.

"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.

I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.

So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?

Paul felt this way, but was he right? I have no problem with a female pastor if she is a good leader for the church. Would God approve or not?
 
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zoidar

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Was he right? Is the bible right?
These are your questions

Paul himself says about some matters:

1 Cor 7
10 But to the married I give instructions, not I, but the Lord, that the wife should not leave her husband 11 (but if she does leave, she must remain unmarried, or else be reconciled to her husband), and that the husband should not divorce his wife.
12 But to the rest I say, not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And a woman who has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
 
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dqhall

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Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.

"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.

I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.

So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?
I attended numerous churches of various denominations and listened to sermons and homilies. I never heard the words “sola scriptura” uttered in church, only found them written in ChristianForums. I did not find one church where they only spoke words from the Bible as if nothing else mattered. There are thousands of books that might be useful including medical texts. Paul warned people he was not the one who was crucified, they were not baptized into his name (1 Corinthians 1). Paul is worth reading, but he is not God, nor is the Bible easily discerned without God. An object of paper and ink is not equal to the Holy Spirit.
 
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GodLovesCats

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I don't subscribe to the "Protestant" paradigm, because it bases its identity on a negative.

Would you care to explain your opinion? Protestants are the ones who accept the fact that sins don't need to be confessed to a priest in a church sanctuary because they have already been forgiven. This makes all Protestants more focused on the positive and Catholics on the negative when they talk about forgiveness.
 
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zoidar

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Was he right? Is the bible right?
These are your questions

There is also this:

1 Cor 11
Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. 5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved. 6For if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, let her cover her head. 7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

How many Christians do you know of that follow these rules? Sure, the majority of Christians could be wrong, but still one might think that this was more Paul's own thoughts than God's will.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?

This short video may help you with that question:

 
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Bible Highlighter

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Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.

"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.

I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.

I am a non-denominational Trinitarian Christian who believes in the teaching of Sola Scriptura but I do not agree with the name "Sola Scriptura" because we need GOD to understand the Bible and not our own human mind, and wisdom alone. We need to ask God for help in our understanding of Scripture. GOD will not talk audibly to help us understand His Word, but He will guide us by His Spirit to compare Scripture with Scripture and He will bring to your mind those verses that you already know or have memorized to teach you.

I disagree also with Catholicism because they add things that we do not see into the Bible (like praying to Mary, the saints, confessing sins to a priest, bowing down to statues or kissing them, etc.). I believe Protestants also add things to the Bible, as well. While Protestants get some things right (like the Trinity, and the Bible being the only physical words of God that we are to follow), they also get other things wrong. For they believe in certain things that I believe are unbiblical (like: Eternal Security, or some level of a sin and still be saved type belief, support of Martin Luther, Grace Alone, 10% tithing, and the idea that we must gather in a church building instead of in each others homes like it was in the early church).

You said:
So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?

Not all Protestant churches are the same or unified on all things. The same is true even of Catholic churches (despite some of them saying otherwise). There are Charismatic Catholic churches and Protestant Charismatic churches. While I lean heavily towards Partial Cessationism (that the gift of apostleship has ceased, and the miraculous gifts have ceased, but not the gifts on teaching, and ministry, etc.), I do not want to say that every Charismatic Continuationist type Christian on the planet is not of God (Because I do not want to speak out out against God if I am wrong). Most of what I have seen in the Charismatic movement disturbs me greatly, and the biblical case for Partial Cessationism (called "Cessationism") is very strong.

The way of truth is to follow your Bible and to follow GOD alone.
Do not trust in visions, prophecies, added holy books, or dreams, etc.

I say this because only the Bible and GOD will guide you were you need to go spiritually. Do not follow anyone but GOD and His Word. Most today are seeking to follow their own way. Many today seek to justify sin on some level, as well. Many add things to the Bible that is not clearly there. These added things have not proven themselves to be trustworthy like the Bible.

To see some excellent evidences that back up the Bible as being divine in origin, check out my Blogger article here:

Love Branch: Evidences for the Word of God

I believe church traditions, and or added holy books (like: The Book of Mormon, or Divine Revelation of Hell, or Heaven is for Real, the five points of Calvinism, etc.) contradict the Bible and they cannot be proven to be divine in origin on the same level as the Bible, either.
 
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AlexDTX

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Hi. I grew up in a Catholic family, lived an atheist life of sin and returned to God through Catholicism. I knew nothing about other denominations.
My big issue was with Marion devotion, my parents being Portuguese are devoted to Our Lady of Fatima. But when I inquired about it in a Catholic forum I was labelled a Protestant.

"What is that?" So I looked into it. I always thought that Catholics where the original religion which held the bible sacred and then the denominations split off with new books, dogmas and doctrines. I was shocked to learn that its the Catholics that have a heap of other stuff besides the bible.

I learnt about "sola scripture" and that the protestants adhere to the bible and so began to wonder if I was even a Catholic anymore or a Protestant now as I believe in sola scripture and not the opportunity for humans to add doctrines to it without any bible foundation.

So now I"m surprised to learn that there are female priests in the Protestant priesthood.

"Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; the woman was deceived and became a transgressor." Timothy 2:11-14 ESV

Scripture is quite clear on that topic, what happened "sola scripture" in this case?

Organized religion is the source of confusion. All believers who receive the Holy Spirit through the new birth are the "royal priesthood" (1 Pet 2:9). There is no need for a priesthood in the body of Christ because we have one priest, the apostle and high priest, Jesus Christ between us and God (Heb 3:1).

What is the purpose of a priest? To intercede on behalf of another to God. But if you are born again, you already have Christ interceding for you (Heb 7:25). So men or women calling themselves "priests" in the body of Christ for other Christians is a needless redundancy.

The royal priesthood of Christians functions when we witness to the lost. They need intercession and prayers to help them come to Christ.

Paul's admonition regarding women teaching is not in the setting of organized religion. It was in the setting of house gatherings where everyone participated. Organized religion causes readers to think in terms of a pulpit. But when you read Corinthians, is there any sense of a pulpit with one or two people only talking? No. In fact, because everyone was free to share what the Lord had on their hearts, Paul and to remind them to do so in an orderly fashion (1 Cor 14 and specifically v 33).

Regarding Sola Scriptura, the reality is that Protestants rely on many external documents, too. The difference is that the Bible is the only divinely inspired document, with no other document being equal. But when it comes to distinctions of denominations, denominational doctrines shape how they see the Bible.

Interesting side note. Most people think Jews regard the OT the way Christians regard the Bible. Not true. They put more stock in the Talmud than the OT, just Catholics put equal stock into Church traditions, Apocrypha and writings of Church Fathers. For the Jews, only one group reads the Torah without the Talmud, Kararites, and they are considered heretics by orthodox Jews.
 
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