Why are animal sacrifices done in the Millennial Temple

Ken Rank

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hi Ken, great stuff thanks for sharpening and being sharpened. Again I agree that the entire Mosaic system pointed to the Lord as well as being that which revealed and condemned sin in men. There is no one thing, hundreds of things probably trillions of things that could in and of themselves reveal the Lord. Even with the amount He has made Himself known to us we still can't grasp the true magnitude of all He is or all He has done.

It is a very popular teaching about the spring feasts being fulfilled and the rest waiting fulfillment. But consider this from the 70 Week of Years. The decree to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple was given on Passover and 7 weeks of years later on Passover the work was done. From that Passover another 62 Weeks of Years was to finished when Messiah came to Jerusalem was as we know on Passover. With these 69 Weeks of years at an end with His crucifixion when He was cut off and had nothing. This leaves one Week of Years, 7 years the length of the tribulation that will also begin on Passover and come to a close 7 years later on Passover with the Return of the Passover Lamb. The Feasts in their order may yet be revealed to hold more but Passover is distinctly and uniquely the Day of the Lord.

I believe the Lord spoke of a number of things as being finished. Yes He looked to see if anything had been left out under the criteria of the Law and when He saw He had done all that was to be done on His first coming He spoke the words "It is finished." One thing we have failed to understand is the Lord was also speaking of the Written Law that Scripture tells us we died to the Law through the Law. God designed His Law to accomplish certain things when the Passover Lamb of God lay down His life the Law had been fulfilled and His people are to live not under the Written Law but the Royal Law of Love or more accurately Love in action or Grace.
I pretty much agree with all you said and what little I don't, it doesn't really matter. :) The only thing I will throw out for consideration right now is this... the law was written on stone, it is being moved to the heart. Same law... Jesus didn't create a new law, he revealed the spirit the letter of the law was based on. Thus, adultery is STILL sin but we know now that to even lust in the heart for another is also sin. Murder is a sin, but hatred from which murder would emanate, is also sin. If anything, the depths of loving God and neighbor (two OT commandments, by the way) is harder than just the letter but it also reveals the need for messiah because we CAN'T do it on our own.

Again though, sin is defined by the law, if there is no law then we don't need grace because there isn't sin any more. We are raised in an anti-law culture because of the (false) perception that the OT was based on works until salvation.... or really better as far as the context is concerned...works unto becoming a part of the family of God. It wasn't God's commandments that Jesus, or even Paul we speaking again. It was the man made additions to the law, which combined back then (and even today) were all called "law" by the Jews... and thus we end up with a view of God's law that isn't exactly in line with reality. What was repeatedly rebuked was JEWISH law, i.e. what we would call today, "rabbinic law." And rabbinic law is God's law with additions. We don't need THEM, but we do need God's instructions. In fact, they are what is being written on our hearts.
 
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Vicky gould

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I pretty much agree with all you said and what little I don't, it doesn't really matter. :) The only thing I will throw out for consideration right now is this... the law was written on stone, it is being moved to the heart. Same law... Jesus didn't create a new law, he revealed the spirit the letter of the law was based on. Thus, adultery is STILL sin but we know now that to even lust in the heart for another is also sin. Murder is a sin, but hatred from which murder would emanate, is also sin. If anything, the depths of loving God and neighbor (two OT commandments, by the way) is harder than just the letter but it also reveals the need for messiah because we CAN'T do it on our own.

Again though, sin is defined by the law, if there is no law then we don't need grace because there isn't sin any more. We are raised in an anti-law culture because of the (false) perception that the OT was based on works until salvation.... or really better as far as the context is concerned...works unto becoming a part of the family of God. It wasn't God's commandments that Jesus, or even Paul we speaking again. It was the man made additions to the law, which combined back then (and even today) were all called "law" by the Jews... and thus we end up with a view of God's law that isn't exactly in line with reality. What was repeatedly rebuked was JEWISH law, i.e. what we would call today, "rabbinic law." And rabbinic law is God's law with additions. We don't need THEM, but we do need God's instructions. In fact, they are what is being written on our hearts.

a change in the Law does not change what sin is and isn't. That Law written on the stone in my opinion cannot be written on our hearts because the Law is not of faith. The just must live by faith. So what are we to do? Here is a portion of the teachings Paul gives us on the written Law and its place in or removal from our live.

how do we understand Paul teaching here?

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Ga. 2

one of the big errors of our days is that the covenants as given by the Lord are just a series that dovetail one into the other. The covenant from Sinai can no more be mixed together than you could combine Hagar and Sarah or the two pictures of the what have become the Way of Cain for the apostate portion of Israel and Law of Grace. We are all called Jew and Gentile to be from the one symbolic woman Sarah and the Covenant of the Good News of the Promised Son. Paul who was a Pharisee of pharisees completely conversant with the Law was used by the Lord to take the teaching about Law or Grace to the all men. Paul who in Romans 7 tells us that the Law actually keeps us from bearing fruit for the Lord because the Law Scripture tells us is not of faith and the just shall live by faith. Law is do this and live fail at any point and you break the entire Law. If the Law only prevented us from living for the Lord that would be awful beyond measure. But Paul tells us to be married to the Law prevents you and me from being wed as Christ's Bride to our proper and only Husband. Notice it says that those children who seek to be Hagar's child will never inherit what comes from SaraH and represented by Isaac.
 
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Vicky gould

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I fail to see any proof that what God can write on stone and on walls cannot be written in the same degree on the heart.
God can do anything He chooses to do but He would not take the Law that is not of faith and place on the hearts of those who must live by faith. Here is Paul being pretty blunt that we not make the same error Israel has committed.

how do we understand Paul teaching here?

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Ga. 2

one of the big errors of our days is that the covenants as given by the Lord are just a series that dovetail one into the other. The covenant from Sinai can no more be mixed together than you could combine Hagar and Sarah or the two pictures of the what have become the Way of Cain for the apostate portion of Israel and Law of Grace. We are all called Jew and Gentile to be from the one symbolic woman Sarah and the Covenant of the Good News of the Promised Son. Paul who was a Pharisee of pharisees completely conversant with the Law was used by the Lord to take the teaching about Law or Grace to the all men. Paul who in Romans 7 tells us that the Law actually keeps us from bearing fruit for the Lord because the Law Scripture tells us is not of faith and the just shall live by faith. Law is do this and live fail at any point and you break the entire Law. If the Law only prevented us from living for the Lord that would be awful beyond measure. But Paul tells us to be married to the Law prevents you and me from being wed as Christ's Bride to our proper and only Husband.
 
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Andrewn

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Thank you very much for the answers. Now, I have a better understanding of your belief.

4 no resurrected people yet. First resurrection has not happened yet. There are the saints under the altar but the only Resurrected Person is the Lord Jesus Christ.
This answer surprised me most. The one thing that absolutely everyone agrees on (except full preterits) is that the 1st resurrection takes place at the beginning of the Millennium. In your theory it happens at end of the Millennium?

3 He threw him into the abyss, then locked and sealed it over him. This was to keep him from continuing to deceive the nations until the thousand years were over. After this he must be released for a little while.
4 Then I saw thrones, and people took their seats on them, and judgment was given in their favor. They were the ones who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and God’s word, and those who hadn’t worshipped the beast or its image, who hadn’t received the mark on their forehead or hand. They came to life and ruled with Christ for one thousand years.
5 The rest of the dead didn’t come to life until the thousand years were over. This is the first resurrection.
6 Favored and holy are those who have a share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will rule with him for one thousand years.

Compare 1Th 4:13-18

Your answers to same if you would, thanks.
I believe in Realized Millennialism. So, my answers are very straight forward and boring:

1) Where is Christ in your scenario, on earth or in heaven? And where is the Holy Spirit?
Christ reigns in heaven. The Holy Spirit is in believers. They're one God, omnipresent.

2) Are people on earth mortal or resurrected or a mixture?
The Apostle Paul explains that Christians have been resurrected with Christ in Baptism / Immersion (1st resurrection). Other people haven't.

3) Why are animal sacrifices done in the Millennial Temple?
There is no Temple during the Millennium. The temple has been destroyed in the beginning of the Millennium.

4) What are the resurrected people in heaven doing?
The saints are in Paradise / under the altar awaiting resurrection of the body (2nd resurrection).

5) What parts in the NT become clearer using your system?
It's the only interpretation that takes seriously the Lord's words:

Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me will live, even though they die.26 Everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

In a nutshell, this is Realized Millennialism: the common belief of the entire Church throughout history (except for a few voices) until the 19th century. So, I can't make money preaching a new revelation or collecting to build a temple :)
 
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~Zao~

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God can do anything He chooses to do but He would not take the Law that is not of faith and place on the hearts of those who must live by faith. Here is Paul being pretty blunt that we not make the same error Israel has committed. how do we understand Paul teaching here?
... one of the big errors of our days is that the covenants as given by the Lord are just a series that dovetail one into the other. The covenant from Sinai can no more be mixed together than you could combine Hagar and Sarah or the two pictures of the what have become the Way of Cain for the apostate portion of Israel and Law of Grace. We are all called Jew and Gentile to be from the one symbolic woman Sarah and the Covenant of the Good News of the Promised Son. Paul who was a Pharisee of pharisees completely conversant with the Law was used by the Lord to take the teaching about Law or Grace to the all men. Paul who in Romans 7 tells us that the Law actually keeps us from bearing fruit for the Lord because the Law Scripture tells us is not of faith and the just shall live by faith. Law is do this and live fail at any point and you break the entire Law. If the Law only prevented us from living for the Lord that would be awful beyond measure. But Paul tells us to be married to the Law prevents you and me from being wed as Christ's Bride to our proper and only Husband.
If we could love God and others w/o His character being formed within then I’m sure there would not have been the need for the outline of law that was completed in Christ, not from angels, prophets or Moses. Hebrews 1

As far as the children of the promise that are allegorized with the New Jerusalem as mother Sarah, from the typology of Isaac, who did nothing but allowed things to come to him, including his wife that dwelt in the tent of his mother, Sarah, is symbolically Christ. Law is of the concubine, the foreigners of the city that are meant to pay the taxes, not the children of the King. But do give due where due is due, taxes to whom tax is due and fear to whom fear is due. That is how Jesus had to manuever the law/grace line. Not so now that a new covenant is what Christianity is based on. No where does that abolish the 10 commandments which simply mean the great commandments in a nutshell. In fact that is the NC. :doh:
 
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JackRT

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Why are animal sacrifices done in the Millennial Temple?


Micah 6:6 With what shall I come before the Lord, And bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God.
 
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Vicky gould

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If we could love God and others w/o His character being formed within then I’m sure there would not have been the need for the outline of law that was completed in Christ, not from angels, prophets or Moses. Hebrews 1

As far as the children of the promise that are allegorized with the New Jerusalem as mother Sarah, from the typology of Isaac, who did nothing but allowed things to come to him, including his wife that dwelt in the tent of his mother, Sarah, is symbolically Christ. Law is of the concubine, the foreigners of the city that are meant to pay the taxes, not the children of the King. But do give due where due is due, taxes to whom tax is due and fear to whom fear is due. That is how Jesus had to manuever the law/grace line. Not so now that a new covenant is what Christianity is based on. No where does that abolish the 10 commandments which simply mean the great commandments in a nutshell. In fact that is the NC. :doh:
If we could love God and others w/o His character being formed within then I’m sure there would not have been the need for the outline of law that was completed in Christ, not from angels, prophets or Moses. Hebrews 1

As far as the children of the promise that are allegorized with the New Jerusalem as mother Sarah, from the typology of Isaac, who did nothing but allowed things to come to him, including his wife that dwelt in the tent of his mother, Sarah, is symbolically Christ. Law is of the concubine, the foreigners of the city that are meant to pay the taxes, not the children of the King. But do give due where due is due, taxes to whom tax is due and fear to whom fear is due. That is how Jesus had to manuever the law/grace line. Not so now that a new covenant is what Christianity is based on. No where does that abolish the 10 commandments which simply mean the great commandments in a nutshell. In fact that is the NC. :doh:

cute icon but you might have to take him for yourself. This is not allegory written taught and lived by the Apostle Paul. Those passages I have not quoted I hope we will look at later they in no way alter the meaning of that which is present here. Galatians 3

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. it is written that everyone who to continue under the Law is obligated to fulfill just as Christ did, perfectly, never failing in any portion of the Mosaic Law. Either we accept the finished work of Jesus Christ or we take His place but only one of us can pay the wage of sin demanded by the Law. Its not me

11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; 12 and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Paul who understood the Law and learned why he and all believers had to leave the Law for Grace because the Law does not have faith. Law is do this and live and it must be done perfectly every second of every minute of every day. Fail just once at any point guilty on every point.

13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Did the Lord redeem us through His sacrifice only for us to say we are going back under the curse of the Law? Paul's reference here to being crucified on a tree is an allusion to The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil which was the Law. Christ died to the Law through the Law. Once of the things the Law was meant to do, come to an end.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men: Though it be but a man's covenant, yet when it hath been confirmed, no one maketh it void, or addeth thereto. Now Paul uses an example from every day life using the things of this world to teach spiritual truth. Paul says there is no way to amend an establish covenant, cannot add to it or take from. Lawyers have gone a long way to make this look false with their constant alterings. But the Lord is not man and he says this about His Covenant.

16 Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Paul tells us that the Good News Covenant spoken to Abraham had as its Heir Jesus Christ. We may only become joiny heirs with Christ and the only covenant He has for us is Grace not Law.

17 Now this I say: A covenant confirmed beforehand by God, the law, which came four hundred and thirty years after, doth not disannul, so as to make the promise of none effect. a covenant entered into and confirmed cannot be added in anyway to the original covenant. The Covenant with Abraham whose heir is Jesus Christ and He has one covenant and it does not include Sinai which came 430 years after in answer to Israel's rebellion and it is a covenant of judgment that stands, not stood, opposed to us.

18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise: but God hath granted it to Abraham by promise. the Law voids the Good News for and exchanges It is finished for I must do myself.

19 What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; [and it was] ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator. Paul then says okay here is one of the purposes God designed the Law to do. It was added because of transgressions and it is the Ministry of Death. The Law was to be a guardian to lead us to Christ always was always will be. Once we have come to Christ there is no longer a need for a guardian because that has come to an end and we know longer life by the letter we live by the spirit. Each us must be clear has the law led us to Christ? What then is God's next design for the Law to accomplish? It at an end when the Lord has become us through faith in the same Good News that was preached to Abraham.

Paul wrote that those who were leading the Galatians astray should go the full way and emasculate themselves under the Law and that those who taught the return to the Law or combining it with Grace are anathema. This is a very tough Book and these verses are like a hard slap to the face to get our attention. This is not the only teaching of our need to be under the Covenant enter into with Abraham and represented by the vessel who brought forth the shadow of the coming promised Son first spoken of in the Garden.
 
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Vicky gould

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Why are animal sacrifices done in the Millennial Temple?


Micah 6:6 With what shall I come before the Lord, And bow myself before the High God? Shall I come before Him with burnt offerings, With calves a year old? 7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, Ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has shown you, O man, what is good; And what does the Lord require of you But to do justly, To love mercy, And to walk humbly with your God.

What a great passage. still does not exclude the animal sacrifice Ezekiel reveal will be done for the Gentile nations when they must come to celebrate the feasts. The Gentiles then will include none who believe and this will be the manner in which the Royal Nation of Priests will minister to the Gentiles when they come up for Tabernacles and other times.
 
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Vicky gould

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If we could love God and others w/o His character being formed within then I’m sure there would not have been the need for the outline of law that was completed in Christ, not from angels, prophets or Moses. Hebrews 1

As far as the children of the promise that are allegorized with the New Jerusalem as mother Sarah, from the typology of Isaac, who did nothing but allowed things to come to him, including his wife that dwelt in the tent of his mother, Sarah, is symbolically Christ. Law is of the concubine, the foreigners of the city that are meant to pay the taxes, not the children of the King. But do give due where due is due, taxes to whom tax is due and fear to whom fear is due. That is how Jesus had to manuever the law/grace line. Not so now that a new covenant is what Christianity is based on. No where does that abolish the 10 commandments which simply mean the great commandments in a nutshell. In fact that is the NC. :doh:

12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good. so that Paul and I who believe what he is teaching are understood in what we believe the Law as being Holy, righteous and Good. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Law the problem is with me

13 Did then that which is good become death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good; --that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful. here is another design God has for His Law it is to open the way that sin becomes utterly sinful. Not that sin becomes less in the lives of those under Law. Paul tells us when the command do not covet came every form of coveting burst forth in him. Trying to get some control over our sin nature with the Law puts us in direct opposition to God's Will for His Law.
 
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12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good. so that Paul and I who believe what he is teaching are understood in what we believe the Law as being Holy, righteous and Good. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Law the problem is with me

13 Did then that which is good become death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good; --that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful. here is another design God has for His Law it is to open the way that sin becomes utterly sinful. Not that sin becomes less in the lives of those under Law. Paul tells us when the command do not covet came every form of coveting burst forth in him. Trying to get some control over our sin nature with the Law puts us in direct opposition to God's Will for His Law.
I have no idea what your talking about. It sounds pre-christian.
 
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Vicky gould

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I have no idea what your talking about.

you don't understand Paul's teaching of what God designed His Law to do? Law was to be like gas. In men sin burned but at a level that men were not aware of there sin. So the Lord gave His Law not to cause sin but to allow sin to become utterly sinful. In Romans 5 Paul talks of how when the commandment came every form of covetness sprang to life in him.

55 O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the power of sin is the law: 57 but thanks be to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

How much plainer must Paul write to us. The "power of sin is the Law." Paul is telling us if you want to fight the good fight against the sinful flesh we must remove what sin draws its power from. THE mOSAIC cOVENANT WAS NEVER INTENDED BY iSRAEL TO LIVE UNDER IT WAS DESIGNED TO SHOW HOW SINFUL THEY WERE AND THEN TO BE LED TO THE pASSOVER lAMB OF gOD jESUS cHRIST. wHEN IT BROUGHT US TO cHRIST IT WAS AT AN END AND THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THIS WORLD tHE lAW FOR THE rOYAL lAW OF THE kINGDOM gRACE

sorry for that I am a hunt and peck typer and did not notice I had hit the caps.
 
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~Zao~

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you don't understand Paul's teaching of what God designed His Law to do? Law was to be like gas. In men sin burned but at a level that men were not aware of there sin. So the Lord gave His Law not to cause sin but to allow sin to become utterly sinful. In Romans 5 Paul talks of how when the commandment came every form of covetness sprang to life in him.
That was his defining of the duel nature in conflict one with the other. But if you care to dwell there you would be more comfortable in the message of the cross and not try to project that into ascension. They are the definition of the covenants.
 
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Vicky gould

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That was his defining of the duel nature in conflict one with the other. But if you care to dwell there you would be more comfortable in the message of the cross and not try to project that into ascension. They are the definition of the covenants.

11 For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men, for the Grace of God has appeared to all men that Grace was and is Jesus Christ and His finished work

12 instructing us, to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world; Grace is not only the guide that leads us to living in these ways but it has what the Law does not have the power for us to live as we have been called to live.

and again 1 Cor. 15: 5 56

.
 
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~Zao~

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Scripture tells us that the Millennial Temple will once again have animal sacrifices. Your thoughts
A return to Law vs Grace 101 would include understanding the flesh is actually a life and death situation. It may start again in the garden and adam and eve can turn from their transgression of trying to cover themselves.
 
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Ken Rank

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a change in the Law does not change what sin is and isn't. That Law written on the stone in my opinion cannot be written on our hearts because the Law is not of faith. The just must live by faith. So what are we to do? Here is a portion of the teachings Paul gives us on the written Law and its place in or removal from our live.

how do we understand Paul teaching here?

21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Ga. 2

one of the big errors of our days is that the covenants as given by the Lord are just a series that dovetail one into the other. The covenant from Sinai can no more be mixed together than you could combine Hagar and Sarah or the two pictures of the what have become the Way of Cain for the apostate portion of Israel and Law of Grace. We are all called Jew and Gentile to be from the one symbolic woman Sarah and the Covenant of the Good News of the Promised Son. Paul who was a Pharisee of pharisees completely conversant with the Law was used by the Lord to take the teaching about Law or Grace to the all men. Paul who in Romans 7 tells us that the Law actually keeps us from bearing fruit for the Lord because the Law Scripture tells us is not of faith and the just shall live by faith. Law is do this and live fail at any point and you break the entire Law. If the Law only prevented us from living for the Lord that would be awful beyond measure. But Paul tells us to be married to the Law prevents you and me from being wed as Christ's Bride to our proper and only Husband. Notice it says that those children who seek to be Hagar's child will never inherit what comes from SaraH and represented by Isaac.
We have two entirely different views of the law. I could show you a number of places above where your conclusion (which is generally the mainstream Christian conclusion) is not consistent with the bulk of Scripture. But you are not asking... you are spending a great deal of time trying to influence me with your view. I know your view, I can teach it forward and backward using verses you aren't using. But there is a more consistent way to view all this, and it is one that doesn't cause a God who does not change, to change.
Blessings.
Ken
 
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CharismaticLady

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Scripture tells us that the Millennial Temple will once again have animal sacrifices. Your thoughts

My thoughts have been that at the beginning of the last seven years, Israel will not yet know that Jesus is the Messiah and the once and for all sacrifice taking away our sin. But that 7 year period is if, in fact, Daniel 9:27 was not already fulfilled from 66 AD to 73 AD, with 70 AD in the middle. Those dates are the last Jewish revolt that resulted in the destruction of the temple. 66 to 73 is 7 years, a fact I did not know until recently and it blew my mind and made me re-think a future 7 year period. Now I'm up in the air with what is truth on this. Romans 11 still makes me believe there will come a time in the future when the last Gentile that is going to be saved closes the fullness of the Gentiles, then the partial blindness will be lifted from national unsaved Israel for them to come into the Church.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Because Christianity was not a separate religion from Judaism - and never should have developed into one.
My thoughts have been that at the beginning of the last seven years, Israel will not yet know that Jesus is the Messiah and the once and for all sacrifice taking away our sin. But that 7 year period is if, in fact, Daniel 9:27 was not already fulfilled from 66 AD to 73 AD, with 70 AD in the middle. Those dates are the last Jewish revolt that resulted in the destruction of the temple. 66 to 73 is 7 years, a fact I did not know until recently and it blew my mind and made me re-think a future 7 year period. Now I'm up in the air with what is truth on this. Romans 11 still makes me believe there will come a time in the future when the last Gentile that is going to be saved closes the fullness of the Gentiles, then the partial blindness will be lifted from national unsaved Israel for them to come into the Church.
After 70ad, trying to mix OC Mosaic Judaism with NC Christianity is like mixing dirt and water.........mud.

Matthew 7:6
“Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine,
lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

Philippians 3:2
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the circumcision!

2 Corinthians 6:17
wherefore come-forth<1831> out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord


2 Peter 2:22 and happened to them hath that of the true similitude; `A dog did turn back upon his own vomit<1829>,' and `a sow<5300> having bathed<3068> herself--to rolling<2946> in its mire/<1004>.'
============================
Revelation 3:
15 I am seeing of you the works, that neither cold you are, neither boiling/zealous, owe you! cold thou were, or boiling/zealous.
16 thus that lukewarm<5513> thou are, and neither cold, neither boiling/zealous, I am being about to vomit<1692> thee out of My mouth.

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of the tormenting of them is ascending into Ages to-Ages. And not they are having Rest<372> day and night [Matt 11:29/Hebrew 4:3]
==================
Matthew 24:16
then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19


Revelation 18:4
And I hear another Voice out of the heaven saying "come forth!<1831> out of Her My people......................


The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Revelation 19:3
And a second time they have declared<4483> "HalleluYah!
and the smoke of Her is ascending into the ages of the ages!"

=======================================
Some threads on Christianity vs Judaism

https://www.google.com/search?q=jud...L6wKHV5fDEsQrQIoBDAAegQIARAN&biw=1366&bih=626
 
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parousia70

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Romans 11 still makes me believe there will come a time in the future when the last Gentile that is going to be saved closes the fullness of the Gentiles

The term "Fullness of the Gentiles" is oft equated with the notion of quantity, amount, or number count of Gentile believers, - as you are doing here - but does scripture support such a notion?

By comparing scripture with scripture we clearly see that "fullness" does not equate with "full number", but rather the fullness of Gods grace:

John 1:16
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(This is especially instructive for us in that "fullness" is considered here to the the opposite of "fall", and in no way can be construed as a numeric value.)

Romans 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

The list goes on........

The notion of fullness in the NT carries the idea of "totality of Gods blessings and grace", and not a certain number of people.

Gentile believers are not waiting to become "full partakers" of the Grace of God, rather The Gentiles are already FULL PARTAKERS of the grace of God.

The "Fulness of the gentiles" came in 2000 years ago.
 
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CharismaticLady

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The term "Fullness of the Gentiles" is oft equated with the notion of quantity, amount, or number count of Gentile believers, - as you are doing here - but does scripture support such a notion?

By comparing scripture with scripture we clearly see that "fullness" does not equate with "full number", but rather the fullness of Gods grace:

John 1:16
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(This is especially instructive for us in that "fullness" is considered here to the the opposite of "fall", and in no way can be construed as a numeric value.)

Romans 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

The list goes on........

The notion of fullness in the NT carries the idea of "totality of Gods blessings and grace", and not a certain number of people.

Gentile believers are not waiting to become "full partakers" of the Grace of God, rather The Gentiles are already FULL PARTAKERS of the grace of God.

The "Fulness of the gentiles" came in 2000 years ago.

Sorry, but in reading those I still believe it is a number that only God knows. The fullness you are talking about seems to be maturity, and a new believer who accepts Christ at the end of time isn't going to be as "full" or mature as someone who has walked in the Spirit for decades.
 
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