New data on response in business to #metoo

tall73 said:

The #MeToo Backlash

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The Brett Kavanaugh hearings amplified the concern.

So; women refuse to accept being treated badly, and we're punished for it by being excluded.

From the article: “When men say, ‘I’m not going to hire you, I’m not going to send you traveling, I’m going to exclude you from outings’—those are steps backward.”

Awesome.

Paidiske said:

So; women refuse to accept being treated badly, and we're punished for it by being excluded.

From the article: “When men say, ‘I’m not going to hire you, I’m not going to send you traveling, I’m going to exclude you from outings’—those are steps backward.”

Awesome.

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It's sad and hilarious at the same time. I can't control myself, so I'm going to exclude you. Do you know what's easier? Not harassing women. Or how about you treat them the way you would your male colleagues. You don't make passes at them? Good, now do that for everyone you work with.

I think it also says a lot about the implication of the movement. Many women have been sexually harassed, but by bringing up this harassment, they have made men more exclusionary. What you should have done was remain silent because then things would be better?

I would think a survey of Christian women and men in executive positions would reveal that more are joining the Graham Covenant, from which Mike Pence picked up his rule.

It is principle that generally in most businesses can be followed without anyone being aware of the Covenanter's actions and beliefs. If followed properly it should enhance the opposite gender's promotion opportunities.

Paidiske said:

So; women refuse to accept being treated badly, and we're punished for it by being excluded.

From the article: “When men say, ‘I’m not going to hire you, I’m not going to send you traveling, I’m going to exclude you from outings’—those are steps backward.”

Awesome.

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This goes back to what's been mentioned before concerning fear of false allegations.

There's actually a *massive* blow-up in the English-language voice acting industry right now because a popular voice actor was accused of various things, but many of the accusations and much of the "evidence" fell apart quickly; the guy was still fired by two different studios despite the case against him being so flimsy, and now he's suing several individuals.

But what's the alternative? Would we rather be in a world where people can't speak up when they're mistreated?

Personally, I don't think false allegations are a large problem. Most of us know that making an allegation is more likely to harm us than the person against whom we are making it. But I think I'd rather live in a world where there's a small possibility of a false allegation being taken seriously, than a large possibility of a true allegation being ignored.

Paidiske said:

But what's the alternative? Would we rather be in a world where people can't speak up when they're mistreated?

Personally, I don't think false allegations are a large problem. Most of us know that making an allegation is more likely to harm us than the person against whom we are making it. But I think I'd rather live in a world where there's a small possibility of a false allegation being taken seriously, than a large possibility of a true allegation being ignored.

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You assume that human beings are 100% rational.

Rather, there's fear at work on both sides of the issue.

Ironhold said:

You assume that human beings are 100% rational.

Rather, there's fear at work on both sides of the issue.

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The point is, the behaviour highlighted in the OP - of avoiding working with women - is wrong.

One who follows the Graham Covenant can work with women.

...until they can't. Or choose not to. As clearly many are.

We have too much to lose from this attitude which sees women as a threat rather than as valued co-contributors to our society.

Paidiske said:

But what's the alternative?

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How about considering evidence and a proportional response?

If all we have is an allegation and no evidence...perhaps we should treat that just like anything else without evidence.

Personally, I don't think false allegations are a large problem. Most of us know that making an allegation is more likely to harm us than the person against whom we are making it. But I think I'd rather live in a world where there's a small possibility of a false allegation being taken seriously, than a large possibility of a true allegation being ignored.

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Well that's exactly the attitude that lead to this response. You have a job, don't you?

Ana the Ist said:

How about considering evidence and a proportional response?

If all we have is an allegation and no evidence...perhaps we should treat that just like anything else without evidence.

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I think it depends, and can't be decided by a blanket approach. Allegations just being dismissed is how people get away with doing the wrong thing... over and over and over again.

The thing is, when an allegation is made, it's either dismissed or taken seriously. For far too long they were routinely dismissed. Now they're slightly more likely to be taken seriously, followed up on, investigated, and acted on; and that is a good thing.

Nobody wants a lynch mob, but overall, a culture where people (mostly men) routinely doing the wrong thing and getting away with it isn't tolerated any more is a good thing.

How many said that they were reluctant to sexually harass women?

Paidiske said:

...until they can't. Or choose not to. As clearly many are.

We have too much to lose from this attitude which sees women as a threat rather than as valued co-contributors to our society.

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I have clearly written time and again that the Covenant is sex-neutral.

And in and before the era of #metoo, yes, we all know that some women have misused the trust of mentoring to falsely charge men. That real fact is not going away.

Fear of the Covenant resides in the head only as a threat.

JohnAshton said:

I have clearly written time and again that the Covenant is sex-neutral.

And in and before the era of #metoo, yes, we all know that some women have misused the trust of mentoring to falsely charge men. That real fact is not going away.

Fear of the Covenant resides in the head only as a threat.

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You're talking about this rule as if it were a new denomination of christianity, if not an entirely new religion.

Paidiske said:

So; women refuse to accept being treated badly, and we're punished for it by being excluded.

From the article: “When men say, ‘I’m not going to hire you, I’m not going to send you traveling, I’m going to exclude you from outings’—those are steps backward.”

Awesome.

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Truth and error are in the mix. It is true that many women have been taken advantage of and that needs to stop. But the error came when women who were not taken advantage of, such as Christine Ford, who was used to smear a godly man, Brett Kavanaugh, for political gain. It is the false accusations that men are fearful of because a climate has developed where the woman is believed without question.

I think a double standard lies hidden in your response. Many Christian women understand the temptation they are creating if they dress immodestly therefore avoid creating such temptations with modest apparel. Is it not appropriate, then, for a man to safe guard both himself and the women by precluding such appearances of evil? And if the man knows his own weakness to such temptation, isn't his making an effort to prevent himself from being tempted to be commended?

Frankly, at the bottom of this issue lies two other issues that contribute to the problem. Women are being told that careers are more important than motherhood, and inflation that causes the cost of living to rise so much, women are, of necessity forced to work to help the family survive.

Nelson Rockefeller once told Aaron Russo that feminism was a blessing for the bankers because it put more of their fiat money into circulation and increased the tax base to pay the interest on their fiat money.

When this evil monetary system is removed, and honest money is restored, women won't have to work and can stay home to raise their children.

No, I am not doing so, Nithavela. It is a practical application of organizing work relationships so that all parties are protected from exploitation. But there are both men and women who do not follow best practices in the work place.

AlexdofTex, I agree with much of what you say, except that Kavanaugh cannot be defined as a "godly man", and it was Christine For who was taken advantage of.