A perfect example of how Satan deceives the church

mkgal1 said:

I don't believe St John was negligent. I think this discussion is conflating "salvation" with "justification". We've been forgiven.....but we ought not use that as freedom to sin (and harm others). If "trespasses" is a more acceptable word - then I'm fully on board with that. Don't use that as a license to "trespass" against others.

1 John 4:19 ~ We love because He first loved us.

Romans 5:8 ~ But God proves His own love for in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!​

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What do you see as a trespass as opposed to a sin of lawlessness? Which is a willful sin in full knowledge, and a sin unto death?

CharismaticLady said:

I know my post seems to insult you, but I don't know how else to warn those whose denominations teach we will always be sinners.

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So what's the alternative? Are you saying your church (as opposed to "my church" as you called it) teaches people no longer sin? I've honestly never run across that doctrine before. It seems to me that's more about denial of reality than a truth I've yet to run across a sinless person in all my years.

CharismaticLady said:

so how does your church interpret 1 John 3:5?

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I'm not comfortable speaking for "my church".....but the way I interpret that passage, based on sermons and readings, is that "He takes away the sin of this world" doesn't mean that sin is eradicated (we can take a look around anywhere and see sin is still here).....but He, as God and the only One that rightfully can forgive us of our sin, has forgiven sin.

BCsenior said:

I got as far as ...
1 John 3:
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Please notice that we must continue to purify ourselves (1 John 3:3).
This is referring to the process of sanctification ...
which begins after we have been positionally sanctified (set apart).

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Here we go again, Zack, semantics. The common teaching of "sanctification" is that it is a process. But when I kept finding the past tense of the word, "sanctified," I prayed and asked God "if we are already sanctified when we are justified, then what do You call the "process" and the changes we go through during I life, and He spoke and said one word clear as day - "glorification." It is connected to the "divine nature." 2 Peter 1

The desire to willfully sin due to our old sin nature has been extinguished by the Spirit as long as we never quench Him and resurrect the old nature. Receiving the Spirit after true repentance is becoming born again of the Spirit - a new nature - a new creature in Christ.

BCsenior said:

Would you like to see all of the NT verses that PROMISE
... BACS have been set FREE from the bondage of sin!

They NO longer have to sin! ... They are FREE to NOT sin!

Which is kinda good, I guess, because ...
NO ONE will be allowed into heaven who has unrepentant (unforgiven) sin!

THIS IS WHY THE WORD (JESUS) CAME ...
TO FREE BACs FROM BEING SLAVES OF SIN!

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Being set free from the bondage of sin doesn't mean people no longer DO sin. They are free from the punishment of sin that, in our minds, is what makes sense. God is more about restorative justice....not punitive (in my belief).

Have you met a sinless person? Are you claiming to be one? (I don't mean that to be snarky - it's just how I'm understanding your post).

Maybe I'm better served to sit back and watch the two of you discuss - because I've honestly never come across doctrine like what I'm understanding you two to be describing. I'm going over to the "back of the room" to observe.

mkgal1 said:

has forgiven sin.

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Are those sins from the past, or sins we keep committing?

CharismaticLady said:

Are those sins from the past, or sins we keep committing?

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I believe He's forgiven all sins, but I guess it depends on your understanding of what "forgiveness" means.

BCsenior said:

Would you like to see all of the NT verses that PROMISE
... BACS have been set FREE from the bondage of sin?

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I have NO disagreement with the *bondage* of sin being removed.

mkgal1 said:

They are free from the punishment of sin.

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See, that can be stretched to mean we keep committing sin, and Jesus has not freed us at all, just became our sacrifice. But even in the Old Testament, sacrifices had to be performed every year because the sacrifice only covered sin from the past year. The difference is Jesus was sacrificed for past sins (not past, present and future as some denominations erroneously teach), and THEN we are given the Spirit of Christ which is powerful and makes us born again of the Spirit. That is the "seed" of 1 John 3:9 the seed of the Father.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Some denominations try to soften this verse and change to word "commit (once)" to "make a practice" of sin.

Here is an example of "commit." I am an animal lover. There is NO WAY I could ever even ONCE abuse an animal. See how that becomes impossible, not just make a practice of...

mkgal1 said:

I have NO disagreement with the *bondage* of sin being removed.

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The bondage has to do with John 8:34-36. He who commits sin is a SLAVE to sin. They will not be in the "house" forever - eternal life. But a son abides forever. They are free

mkgal1 said:

I believe all sins, but I guess it depends on your understanding of what "forgiveness" means.

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It is not just forgiveness, but the desire to commit.

2 Peter 1:9 tells us it is our old sins, not all sins as we are not expected to commit present and future sins once we have been given the power of Christ to no longer be in the flesh, but in the Spirit. Romans 8:1-9

BCsenior said:

Yes, if you wish, you may go stand in the corner with the dunce cap on.

Would you like to see all of the NT verses that PROMISE
... BACS have been set FREE from the bondage of sin?

Or, better yet, someone might volunteer to send you a NT.

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Dunce cap? Zack have you not learned anything from our heated past of this type of behavior from you?

What good is knowing a list of Scriptures if you don't live it?

BCsenior said:

Yes, if you wish, you may go stand in the corner with the dunce cap on.

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Pretty sure you just sinned right there.

BCsenior said:

You're the one who started the heat.
Along with everything else, you have no sense of humor?

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Some people have a very crude sense of humor aimed at hurting people. It is NOT of the Spirit.

BCsenior said:

The LORD has a great sense of humor, which evidently you know nothing about.

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I have a great sense of humor; ask anybody that actually knows me.