Why does hell exist?

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Revelation 20:4-6 NIV
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5] (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. [6] Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
This is talking about believers in Christ, not unbelievers.

I think we're talking cross-purposes there. I was responding to your claim that the invitation was extended to 1st century folks, by making the point that 1000 years elapse in Rev 20:4. So I don't see how you can maintain that position.
 
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Anguspure

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I've heard that's worth a read.

My favorite underrated no-nonsense universalist pastor Santo Calarco just published a new book, which is great imho. You can get the softcopy edition for a buck. He has active ministries in Indo and South Africa, so well worth supporting (you can donate at his website). Amazed by Grace: Unspeakable, Unstoppable, Universally Restoring Love by Santo Calarco
Some of his YT messages can be found here: Santo Calarco Restoration For All

Otherwise there's a mountain of resources at the Tentmaker site. Tentmaker – Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe. I Tim. 4:10

It's the beautiful true gospel. Look forward to hearing how you go!
Thanks.
 
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lismore

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I never said the wicked God haters should not be punished. The truth is, however, God sees all sinners as imperfect people and does not count sins. To Him, punishment is not dependent on the sin. So in heaven, nobody will be considered more dangerous than anyone else to HIm who brings us up there. We will think about and praise Jesus. We will not hope Adolf Hitler is burning in hell then like we do now.

Hello ChristianForCats. Thanks for your post. I see you have a kind heart, however the scriptures may point a different way:

Rev 22:15. 'Outside are the dogs'. The dangerous ones don't get in. God Bless :)
 
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Tyler52

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I think we're talking cross-purposes there. I was responding to your claim that the invitation was extended to 1st century folks, by making the point that 1000 years elapse in Rev 20:4. So I don't see how you can maintain that position.
I should have worded that better, I'm sorry. What I meant was that he was talking to people in the late first century and telling them to invite others and spread the word that Jesus is coming soon, and that he wasn't inviting people after the tribulation, to be apart of the kingdom. Also, yes I do believe that we that we should still spread the gospel.
 
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"GOD’S PUNISHMENT IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.
Through out the Old Testament the worst punishment was always death, never torment. If, as the argument is that God causing the lost to be eternally suffering is the only form of punishment, and that annihilation would not be punishment, the Old Testament writers did not seem to know that death would not be punishment. A few of the many times death is said to be punishment in the Old Testament, Exodus 21:12; 21:14; 21:15; 21:16; 21:17; 21:23; 21:29; Leviticus 20:2; 20:9; 20:10; 20:11; 20:12; 20:13; 20:14; 20:15; 20:16; 20:27; Genesis 2:17; Ezekiel 18:4; 18:20. In none of these punishment torment or consciousness after death is not implies.
Wayne Jackson in the “Christian Courier” said, “Punishment implies consciousness. It would be absurd to describe those who no longer exist as being ‘punished.’”
(1) According to him, those who get “death” for killing a person would not be punished.
(2) According to him Paul was wrong when he said, “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).
(3) According to him “The wages of sin” cannot be “death” for in “death” there is no consciousness, and it would be absurd to say, “The wages of sin is death.” The argument that death is not punishment is nothing but a desperate attempt to change death to life, to change, “The wages of sin is death” to “the wages of sin is an endless life of consciousness suffering, an endless life of God making them to suffer.”
Summary - Whatever the punishment is in Matthew 25:46, it is the same punishment as Romans 6:16; 6:23; 8:6; Revelation 21:8; James 5:22; 2 Peter 2:1; 2:6; 3:7; Philippians 1:28; 3:19; 2 Corinthians 7:10; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9; Matthew 3:12; 13:40; John 3:16, etc. The Bible does not teach one kind of punishment in one verse and then change it to a very different kind of punishment in another verse. It does not teach the punishment is everlasting life with torment in one verse and death in another verse. It comes down to the question of,
1. Is the wages of sin death, or is the wages of sin everlasting life being tormented by God?
2. Is the second death a death, or is the second death everlasting life?
3. Did God really mean "the wages of sin is eternal life with torment," and He mistakenly said, "The wages of sin is death?"
A passage that does not say what the punishment is cannot override the many passages that do say what it is. From Matthew 25:46 alone, no one can say anything about what the punishment will be or will not be. The only way to know what is the punishment of Matthew 25:46 is to go to other passages that do say how God is going to punish the lost. THAT A PASSAGE, WHICH DOES NOT SAY WHAT THE PUNISHMENT WILL BE AND SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HELL IS THE #1 PROOF TEXT FOR HELL SHOWS THE WEAKNESS OF THE PROOF. Can anyone deny that they are going beyond what the Bible says when they say Matthew 25:56 says what the punishment will be, and deny that they are adding eternal life in Hell to Matthew 25:56 when it is not in it?
Is the only difference only a difference in what the punishment will be? Robert A. Peterson, a strong believer in Hell, says, the Old Testament judgments, the Flood, the destruction of Sodom, and Gomorrah, the Egyptian plagues and the crossing of the Red Sea, the captivities of Israel was ALL the loss of human life (page 23-24 of “Hell On Trial). Then on page 26, he says the punishments described in them are consistently earthly and temporal, resulting in physical death. None of these passages speak of life after death or eternal destinies, but he says Annihilationist err, for their belief would entail cessation of existence at death, not the resurrection and punishment of the wicked, "Hell On Trial" P & R Publishing. The New Testament used them as a type of God's judgment after the resurrection; Peterson on page 26 says they resulted in physical death. If the result of the judgment is not death, but an everlasting life of torment, then the types are not true for the types of the Old Testament does not show eternal life with punishment; but they would be true if death is the punishment. The New Testament writers used the Old Testament types to show the destruction of (death), not the torment of the lost. He errs in that he does not give God the power to raise the dead for judgment and punishment if the punishment is to be death; he takes away God’s power to raise the dead if they are dead. God will raise and judge the dead, and just as His judgments in the Old Testament resulted "in death" (Peterson), so will His judgment at the resurrection be a second death. His statement that Annihilationist err because they believe the first death to be the end of those not in Christ, and that the lost will not be raised for judgment may possibly be true of some Annihilationist (none, not even one that I know of), but it is definitely not true of most; it is an outright lie to say Annihilationist do not believe the lost will be resurrected for judgment; most, if not all that have been labeled Annihilationist believe the Bible teaching that all the dead will be raised for the judgment at the second coming of Christ, then for those not in Christ there will be the second death, an eternal death from which there will never be a resurrection.Did Robert A. Peterson just make a make-believe man of hay or stubble so that he could pull down his stubble Annihilationist; his statement that those he calls Annihilationist do not believe the lost will not be resurrected for judgment just is not true.
The only difference is in what the punishment will be after the judgment. Believers in Hell believe the punishment, “The wages of sin is death” will not be death but will be "everlasting life being tormented by God." Those who believe in Hell often argue as if they think that those who oppose Hell do not believe in the resurrection, the judgment, or punishment. They know that if Annihilationist do believe in the resurrection, judgment and punishment, they have loss much of their argument, for if the dead are all raised for judgment then the only question is after the judgment what will the punishment be, and there is no question that the Bible says “the wages of sin is death.” In much of his book he does as many, (1) he assumes that those who do not believe in "Hell" do not believe the lost will be raised for judgment, (2) and he assumes that there is a Hell, (3) and assumes that Hell is its name; then he unjustly puts this name into the mouth of Christ.
A more basic question than what the punishment will be after the resurrection is, "What is the resurrection?" “Will the resurrection be a real resurrection of the dead?” If Peterson was right, that there is something in a person that NOW has immortality, and this something in a person is now alive, and that there is no death for whatever this “it” is, then there cannot be a resurrection for whatever this deathless soul is; Peterson’s belief makes them be the one that does not believe in the resurrection that he falsely says those they calls Annihilationist do believe in. What he falsely calls the resurrection would only be a bringing of those souls that are alive in Heaven, or souls that are alive in Hell back to earth for a second judgment; the Bible says there will be a real resurrection, a real raising the dead that are really dead and bringing them back to life? On page 68 Peterson says God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the lost, but to rescue them from Hell. This is a typical example of the way Hell is added to the Bible. The Bible is changed to read the way they want it to read and Hell is added where it is not. How could Peterson or anyone know the lost shall be rescued from Hell? Do they have a revelation that is not in the Bible? There is no revelation in the Bible that says deathless souls are rescued from Hell, but there is much revelation that says lost persons are saved from death. "Let him know that he who converts a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul (psukee–life) from death" (James 5:20). Salvation is from death, the wages of sin (Romans 6:23), not salvation from an everlasting life of being tormented by God. "God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that has the Son has the life; he that has not the Son of God has not the life" (1 John 5:11-12).
E. D. SLOUGH, evangelist, Church of Christ, “The word ‘punishment’ is not a puzzling word; it is one of the most familiar terms in the English language. Do you know its meaning? Just think a moment and try to define it. The dictionary tells us it is the infliction of penalty for an offense. Is it? If the teacher tells the pupil she will ‘punish’ him a question would spring up in his mind, what way? Even the child knows there are many ways to punish. Though our theologians, after losing sight of the definition of the word, at last give it but one idea, that of misery. Cunning enough, indeed, to separate it from its primary meaning in the New Testament. As if death inflicted for sin was not a punishment. If it is a recompense of the some nature, what is the nature, how severe? The term punishment as a retaliation for offence, never defines the nature of the infliction to be executes. It only announces the fact that a judicial penalty is due, without revealing the severity of it. Punishment, retaliation, recompense, penalty, are synonymous words, and may be used interchangeably. So if the Lord had said, ‘These shall go into everlasting recompense’ or penalty, or retaliation, we would still be forced to seek other scriptures to learn what kind of recompense is meant. We are told there can be no punishment without pain. I deny the assertion. I challenge the reader to search the Old Testament for the hundreds of instances where the infliction of death was the penalty for crimes. And that it was inflicted to satisfy the offence regardless of the pain accompanying it. Punishment lasts so long as its results last, and where death has been administered for the satisfaction of crime; the punishment continues till life is restored, and if never restored, it is an everlasting punishment. Lost of property, loss of liberty, loss of life, may all be meted out to the transgressors under the label of punishment. And death as the capital punishment, legalized on the statutes of all civilized nations of the world, is the highest punishment man can inflict–or so recognized,–being the deprivation of life, the first source of all pleasures and enjoyments, and recognized as being forfeited for certain crimes.” “The Indictment Of Eternal Torment–The Self–negation Of A Monstrous Doctrine,” page 196–197, F. L. Rowe, Publisher, 1914. Free on the web at, http://www.robertwr.com/EternalTorment.htm
Summary - There is no way that those who believe all are born immortal could really believe in the resurrection, or in the need for it. By teaching that all are born with an immortal something in them that can never die the resurrection is denied and made not possible. (1) A living soul that is now alive and will be alive when Christ comes (2) and the resurrection of those that are dead are not compatible; BOTH CANNOT BE TRUE. Satan has done his work well."
Excerpt from: http://www.robertwr.com/
If I wanted to have a discussion with RobertWR I would go over to his website.
 
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Der Alte

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Here is a post I made earlier in this thread which addresses all the arguments, including the false claim of pagan Greek influence.
…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom.
…..Clarification: There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were other beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);
[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]
(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [ שׁאול /Sheol]] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).

Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.

…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.
When Jesus taught about e.g.,
• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
.....These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence. A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
.....Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that it often had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4
…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only reinforce those beliefs.
 
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Tyler52

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="vinsight4u, post: 74242608, member: 10688"]all that do -wickedly= from Malachi 4:1

Back to the original OP .. and NO God does not torture people in "hell" for eternity.

“The Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust
under punishment for the day of judgment” 2 Peter 2:9

There is not one single person in hellfire today. The Bible says that God reserves, or holds back, the wicked until the day of judgment to be punished.

Where are the unsaved who have already died?

“The hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation” John 5:28, 29
“That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? … Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb” Job 21:30, 32 KJV

The Bible is specific. Both the unsaved and the saved who have died (earthly death) are in their graves “sleeping” (dormant) until their resurrection day.

What is the end result of sin?

“The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” Romans 6:23

“Sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death” James 1:15

“God … gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish (death for eternity) but have everlasting life (for eternity)” John 3:16

Jesus died to save us from our sins. Those who do not accept His gift of salvation will receive death.

The wages for (or the result of) sin is death, not everlasting life in hellfire. The wicked “perish,” or receive “death (never to exist again).” The righteous receive “everlasting life.”

Why is understanding what death is so difficult? When one dies on earth all cease to exist on earth and rest (dormant) in their graves, until the Lord returns. 1st resurrection are changed become immortal and are with the Lord.

1st Corinthians 15

51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come to pass: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”

55“Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”

After the 2nd resurrection (the unsaved) ... all die the second death (do not become immortal) are destroyed (GWTJ) and cease to exist for eternity.

Revelation 20:14

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire.

1 Corinthians 15:26

26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Sin is not totally destroyed unless death is destroyed for eternity.

No one living in "hell", being tortured ... death is destroyed and is final for eternity ... just like earthly death is final for our existence on earth ... so the 2nd death will be final for eternity.

It's not difficult to understand ... and this posters mom is correct .... God does not torture people for eternity. They are destroyed (never to exist again) due to the choices each one made while alive on earth in not receiving Jesus and His forgiveness, and from not repenting from their sin.

Death is death (not to exist). Life is life (to exist).[/QUOTE]

Bodies are what sleep in the graves, but the NT shows that Jesus Christ led captivity
captive and will bring the sleeping saints with Him at the last trumpet time.
Why was Jacob gathered just after he died? He wasn't buried for months.
Why did Samuel, after he died -get called up to speak to Saul - and tell him that
he and his sons would join him the next day? Saul was not buried right after he
died, not till days later even.
Why would Jesus Christ tell a story about a great gulf dividing wicked and saved-where
the wicked can't get water nor mercy? Why did Jesus Christ tell that story as to there being more people on each side along with those that were specifically mentioned?

The body waits to be resurrected and judged, but the soul never died the first death,
so why would it die in the second death =lake of fire time?

1 Peter 3:4
What do you think this verse tells us?

1 Peter 3:4 Commentaries: but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.[/QUOTE]

Does this mean that you have beat with the Jewish (Pharisitical) believes of the afterlife that Jesus actually supported? By the way, there are people in hell (lower Sheol) see the parable of Lazarus and the rich. As far as hell fire goes, no, no one is knows what that is like because hellfire is also translated as Gahanna fire. Since no one is in the lake of fire, in one knows what hellfire is like. And of course we can't forget,
Luke 23:42-43 NIV
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. ” [43] Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
 
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• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:Matthew 25:41
The fire is everlasting, but people do emerge from it (see the miraculous regeneration of the nations in Rev 21-22)

• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
Should read '...to be corrected everlastingly' or 'to be fixed but proper'. Kolasin is the word. He's talking about pruning the sin away.

• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
Clearly a metaphor for regret/ self-disgust/ remorse etc. Have you ever burned yourself? Listen to the involuntary bloodcurdling scream that issues forth.

• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.Matthew 18:6
I'm looking at you Elisha and the bears maul the cursed kids incident. Don't it again! Yes, the guilty shall in no wise go unpunished, but with the measure they used, a just ephah and an accurate bath, not infinitely excessive cruelty.

• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Matthew 7:23
So if you preach hellfire, you'll reap what you sow.

• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. Matthew 26:24
Well of course Judas doesn't get a pat on the back and a 'Well done, faithful servant'. But it doesn't teach he earns eternal torture either.

• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12
Proving that for Sodom there is in fact life after annihilation. And ask yourself why Capernaum's sin is worse than Sodom's.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Some people love taking scriptures out of context and terrorising others with them. This is said to Jewish converts who were apostasising and going back to temple sacrifices, after Christ had fulfilled as the once and for all perfect sacrifice for sins. He's saying in effect 'If you go back to the law now, what can you use to cover your sins, when the sacrificial system was insufficient protection against sin and death even then?'
So Paul goes on to exhort them in his great exposition of faith, don't grow weary, God's chastising you because He loves you, so act honourably before the God of peace. He's not threatening them with a whacking if they don't comply - what a notion!

Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only reinforce those beliefs.

Because our Lord is 'flipping' their own proud holier-than-thou hellfire terror-tactics back on them. He's not reinforcing them, he's exposing them. This is what he does to the Jews on so many occasions eg if you were blind, you'd have an excuse. (Mt 9:41) And how will you escape the wrath to come? (Mt 23:33)
 
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The fire is everlasting, but people do emerge from it (see the miraculous regeneration of the nations in Rev 21-22)
Should read '...to be corrected everlastingly' or 'to be fixed but proper'. Kolasin is the word. He's talking about pruning the sin away.
Clearly a metaphor for regret/ self-disgust/ remorse etc. Have you ever burned yourself? Listen to the involuntary bloodcurdling scream that issues forth.
I'm looking at you Elisha and the bears maul the cursed kids incident. Don't it again! Yes, the guilty shall in no wise go unpunished, but with the measure they used, a just ephah and an accurate bath, not infinitely excessive cruelty.
So if you preach hellfire, you'll reap what you sow.
Well of course Judas doesn't get a pat on the back and a 'Well done, faithful servant'. But it doesn't teach he earns eternal torture either.
Proving that for Sodom there is in fact life after annihilation. And ask yourself why Capernaum's sin is worse than Sodom's.
Some people love taking scriptures out of context and terrorising others with them. This is said to Jewish converts who were apostasising and going back to temple sacrifices, after Christ had fulfilled as the once and for all perfect sacrifice for sins. He's saying in effect 'If you go back to the law now, what can you use to cover your sins, when the sacrificial system was insufficient protection against sin and death even then?'
So Paul goes on to exhort them in his great exposition of faith, don't grow weary, God's chastising you because He loves you, so act honourably before the God of peace. He's not threatening them with a whacking if they don't comply - what a notion!
Because our Lord is 'flipping' their own proud holier-than-thou hellfire terror-tactics back on them. He's not reinforcing them, he's exposing them. This is what he does to the Jews on so many occasions eg if you were blind, you'd have an excuse. (Mt 9:41) And how will you escape the wrath to come? (Mt 23:33)
Nothing but your unsupported opinion. I'm sure you believe all that stuff but you have not backed up anything with scripture. Anybody can make scripture say almost anything they want it to by quoting a verse here and a verse there out-of-context.
 
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I should have worded that better, I'm sorry. What I meant was that he was talking to people in the late first century and telling them to invite others and spread the word that Jesus is coming soon, and that he wasn't inviting people after the tribulation, to be apart of the kingdom. Also, yes I do believe that we that we should still spread the gospel.

That's quite ok Tyler, but I disagree, Rev 22:17 says:
And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.

The water of life is a reference to the crystal-clear river water in the City of God in v.22:1. Heaven has not yet come to earth. So this is a linear narrative, and the standing invitation occurs there in the time of restoration of all things.
 
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Nothing but your unsupported opinion. I'm sure you believe all that stuff but you have not backed up anything with scripture. Anybody can make scripture say almost anything they want it to by quoting a verse here and a verse there out-of-context.

My point exactly - you've ripped a few scriptures out and backed them up with nothing but opinion. I just put them back in context.
 
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....Should read '...to be corrected everlastingly' or 'to be fixed but proper'. Kolasin is the word. He's talking about pruning the sin away....
This is a common error that people who don't know anything about Greek spread around trying to make scripture support their assumptions/presuppositions.
I have actually studied Greek and here is the definition of kolasis from BDAG one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available. I don't see pruning anywhere in the definition

κόλασις, εως, ἡ (s. prec. three entries; ‘punishment, chastisement’ so Hippocr.+; Diod S 1, 77, 9; 4, 44, 3; Aelian, VH 7, 15; SIG2 680, 13; LXX; TestAbr, Test12Patr, ApcEsdr, ApcSed; AscIs 3:13; Philo, Leg. ad Gai. 7, Mos. 1, 96; Jos., Ant. 17, 164; SibOr 5, 388; Ar. [Milne 76, 43]; Just.)
infliction of suffering or pain in chastisement, punishment so lit. κ. ὑπομένειν undergo punishment Ox 840, 6; δειναὶ κ. (4 Macc 8:9) MPol 2:4; ἡ ἐπίμονος κ. long-continued torture ibid. Of the martyrdom of Jesus (Orig., C. Cels. 1, 48, 95; 8, 43, 12) PtK 4 p. 15, 34. The smelling of the odor arising fr. sacrifices by polytheists ironically described as punishment, injury (s. κολάζω) Dg 2:9.
transcendent retribution, punishment (ApcSed 4:1 κόλασις καὶ πῦρ ἐστιν ἡ παίδευσίς σου.—Diod S 3, 61, 5; 16, 61, 1; Epict. 3, 11, 1; Dio Chrys. 80 [30], 12; 2 Macc 4:38 al. in LXX; Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 55; 2, 196; Jos., Ant. 1, 60 al.; Just.; Did., Gen., 115, 28; 158, 10) ApcPt 17:32; w. αἰκισμός 1 Cl 11:1. Of eternal punishment (w. θάνατος) Dg 9:2 (Diod S 8, 15, 1 κ. ἀθάνατος). Of hell: τόπος κολάσεως ApcPt 6:21 (Simplicius in Epict. p. 13, 1 εἰς ἐκεῖνον τὸν τόπον αἱ κολάσεως δεόμεναι ψυχαὶ καταπέμπονται); ἐν τῇ κ. ἐκείνῃ 10:25; ibid. ἐφορῶσαι τὴν κ. ἐκείνων (cp. ApcEsdr 5:10 p. 30, 2 Tdf. ἐν τῇ κ.). ἐκ τῆς κ. ApcPt Rainer (cp. ἐκ τὴν κ. ApcSed 8:12a; εἰς τὴν κ. 12b and TestAbr B 11 p. 116, 10 [Stone p. 80]). ἀπέρχεσθαι εἰς κ. αἰώνιον go away into eternal punishment Mt 25:46 (οἱ τῆς κ. ἄξιοι ἀπελεύσονται εἰς αὐτήν Iren. 2, 33, 5 [Harv. I 380, 8]; κ. αἰώνιον as TestAbr A 11 p. 90, 7f [Stone p. 28]; TestReub 5:5; TestGad 7:5; Just., A I, 8, 4; D. 117, 3; Celsus 8, 48; pl. Theoph. Ant. 1, 14 [p. 90, 13]). ῥύεσθαι ἐκ τῆς αἰωνίου κ. rescue fr. eternal punishment 2 Cl 6:7. τὴν αἰώνιον κ. ἐξαγοράζεσθαι buy one’s freedom fr. eternal pun. MPol 2:3 v.l. κακαὶ κ. τοῦ διαβόλου IRo 5:3. κ. τινος punishment for someth. (Ezk 14:3, 7; 18:30; Philo, Fuga 65 ἁμαρτημάτων κ.) ἔχειν κόλασίν τινα τῆς πονηρίας αὐτοῦ Hs 9, 18, 1. ἀναπαύστως ἕξουσιν τὴν κ. they will suffer unending punishment ApcPt Bodl. 9–12. ὁ φόβος κόλασιν ἔχει fear has to do with punishment 1J 4:18 (cp. Philo, In Flacc. 96 φόβος κολάσεως).—M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 555). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
 
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My point exactly - you've ripped a few scriptures out and backed them up with nothing but opinion. I just put them back in context.
Nonsense! You did not put anything back in context which proved me wrong. All you did was give your interpretation of a few of the scriptures I posted.
 
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Nonsense! You did not put anything back in context which proved me wrong. All you did was give your interpretation of a few of the scriptures I posted.

With some I referred to other scriptures, others I just used plain commonsense applying the essential principles of Biblical justice (ie as ye reap). It's called logic, as in Logos, you might have heard of it? We don't just rip out a few one-liners and give them the most paganised spin we can muster. I'll leave that to the 'experts'.
 
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This is a common error that people who don't know anything about Greek spread around trying to make scripture support their assumptions/presuppositions.
I have actually studied Greek and here is the definition of kolasis from BDAG one of, if not, the most highly accredited Greek lexicons available. I don't see pruning anywhere in the definition

κόλασις, εως, ἡ (s. prec. three entries; ‘punishment, chastisement’ so Hippocr.+; Diod S 1, 77, 9; 4, 44, 3; Aelian, VH 7, 15; SIG2 680, 13; LXX; TestAbr, Test12Patr, ApcEsdr, ApcSed; AscIs 3:13; Philo, Leg. ad Gai. 7, Mos. 1, 96; Jos., Ant. 17, 164; SibOr 5, 388; Ar. [Milne 76, 43]; Just.)
infliction of suffering or pain in chastisement, punishment so lit. κ. ὑπομένειν undergo punishment Ox 840, 6; δειναὶ κ. (4 Macc 8:9) MPol 2:4; ἡ ἐπίμονος κ. long-continued torture ibid. Of the martyrdom of Jesus (Orig., C. Cels. 1, 48, 95; 8, 43, 12) PtK 4 p. 15, 34. The smelling of the odor arising fr. sacrifices by polytheists ironically described as punishment, injury (s. κολάζω) Dg 2:9.
transcendent retribution, punishment (ApcSed 4:1 κόλασις καὶ πῦρ ἐστιν ἡ παίδευσίς σου.—Diod S 3, 61, 5; 16, 61, 1; Epict. 3, 11, 1; Dio Chrys. 80 [30], 12; 2 Macc 4:38 al. in LXX; Philo, Spec. Leg. 1, 55; 2, 196; Jos., Ant. 1, 60 al.; Just.; Did., Gen., 115, 28; 158, 10) ApcPt 17:32; w. αἰκισμός 1 Cl 11:1. Of eternal punishment (w. θάνατος) Dg 9:2 (Diod S 8, 15, 1 κ. ἀθάνατος). Of hell: τόπος κολάσεως ApcPt 6:21 (Simplicius in Epict. p. 13, 1 εἰς ἐκεῖνον τὸν τόπον αἱ κολάσεως δεόμεναι ψυχαὶ καταπέμπονται); ἐν τῇ κ. ἐκείνῃ 10:25; ibid. ἐφορῶσαι τὴν κ. ἐκείνων (cp. ApcEsdr 5:10 p. 30, 2 Tdf. ἐν τῇ κ.). ἐκ τῆς κ. ApcPt Rainer (cp. ἐκ τὴν κ. ApcSed 8:12a; εἰς τὴν κ. 12b and TestAbr B 11 p. 116, 10 [Stone p. 80]). ἀπέρχεσθαι εἰς κ. αἰώνιον go away into eternal punishment Mt 25:46 (οἱ τῆς κ. ἄξιοι ἀπελεύσονται εἰς αὐτήν Iren. 2, 33, 5 [Harv. I 380, 8]; κ. αἰώνιον as TestAbr A 11 p. 90, 7f [Stone p. 28]; TestReub 5:5; TestGad 7:5; Just., A I, 8, 4; D. 117, 3; Celsus 8, 48; pl. Theoph. Ant. 1, 14 [p. 90, 13]). ῥύεσθαι ἐκ τῆς αἰωνίου κ. rescue fr. eternal punishment 2 Cl 6:7. τὴν αἰώνιον κ. ἐξαγοράζεσθαι buy one’s freedom fr. eternal pun. MPol 2:3 v.l. κακαὶ κ. τοῦ διαβόλου IRo 5:3. κ. τινος punishment for someth. (Ezk 14:3, 7; 18:30; Philo, Fuga 65 ἁμαρτημάτων κ.) ἔχειν κόλασίν τινα τῆς πονηρίας αὐτοῦ Hs 9, 18, 1. ἀναπαύστως ἕξουσιν τὴν κ. they will suffer unending punishment ApcPt Bodl. 9–12. ὁ φόβος κόλασιν ἔχει fear has to do with punishment 1J 4:18 (cp. Philo, In Flacc. 96 φόβος κολάσεως).—M-M. TW.
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature (3rd ed., p. 555). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
Not interested in how it's used in secular contexts. There's a logical fallacy going on here, which is to assume the consequent - ie begging the question. Like the translation of hilasterion as propitiation in 1 Jn 2:2. It's used in a different sense to the pagan idea of appeasing an angry volcano-god. Plus timoreisis I believe is the word for retributive punishment.
 
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With some I referred to other scriptures, others I just used plain commonsense applying the essential principles of Biblical justice (ie as ye reap). It's called logic, as in Logos, you might have heard of it? We don't just rip out a few one-liners and give them the most paganised spin we can muster. I'll leave that to the 'experts'.
You did not give me common sense or logic all you gave me was your unsupported opinion.. See e.g. kolassis.
 
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You did not give me common sense or logic all you gave me was your unsupported opinion.. See e.g. kolassis.
Thank you for your unsupported opinion. I suppose it's that level of patent brilliance and air of authority that sets it apart.
 
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Not interested in how it's used in secular contexts. There's a logical fallacy going on here, which is to assume the consequent - ie begging the question. Like the translation of hilasterion as propitiation in 1 Jn 2:2. It's used in a different sense to the pagan idea of appeasing an angry volcano-god. Plus timoreisis I believe is the word for retributive punishment.
Nonsense you evidently do not know what a logical fallacy is. I assumed nothing I cited a Greek lexicon. In the absence of evidence what you "believe" is irrelevant. Your opinion of BDAG is also irrelevant. When the NT was written they did not invent a new language they used the same koine Greek that all those secular people did.
The translators did not sit down and make up meanings of Greek words. They determined the meaning of words by how those who spoke the languages used the words. The word kolassis only occurs twice in the NT. The translators used not only contemporary secular writings but also the LXX. If you had bothered to actually read my post you would have known that.
Please show me the meaning "to prune" for Kolassis in any credible language resource. Not from your favorite heterodox website.
 
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Nonsense you evidently do not know what a logical fallacy is. I assumed nothing I cited a Greek lexicon. In the absence of evidence what you "believe" is irrelevant. Your opinion of BDAG is also irrelevant. When the NT was written they did not invent a new language they used the same koine Greek that all those secular people did.
The translators did not sit down and make up meanings of Greek words. They determined the meaning of words by how those who spoke the languages used the words. The word kolassis only occurs twice in the NT. The translators used not only contemporary secular writings but also the LXX. If you had bothered to actually read my post you would have known that.
Please show me the meaning "to prune" for Kolassis in any credible language resource. Not from your favorite heterodox website.

It's a fallacy because they look at how it's used in pagan literature and assume it's used the same way in Christian literature. This results in the profaning of the holy name of God by a kind of idolatry. Despite what you want to believe, the Bible tells us that God saves His enemies ultimately. If you have an issue, take it up with John the Revelator and his final vision which explicitly and undeniably shows all the nations emerging repentant from the fire to enter into the City of God for worship and healing. Or haven't you read to the end of the book yet? If not, sorry for the spoiler.
 
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