we are ALL PREDESTINED

renniks said:

Read them in the NIV. He's talking about works done because of faith. Pretty obvious, really.

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Greek doesn't say that though. NIV inserts words that aren't actually there. All the literal translations have "work of faith".

Literal word order:

1 Thessolonians 1:3
"... unceasingly remembering your (the) work (the) of faith, and (the) labor (the) of love...."

"The" is left out of the translation because in Greek it is an identifier of the specific nouns. "the work", "the faith", "the labor", "the love". It's not just any old work, faith, labor or love. It's "the". "Work", "faith", "labor" and "love" are also all singular.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Interlinear: unceasingly remembering of you the work of the faith, and the labour of the love, and the endurance of the hope, of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the presence of our God and Father,

2 Thessalonians 1:11 is actually more clear; since "the" is not its own separate word in this passage.

"...(he may) fill up every good pleasure of goodness and work of faith"

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Interlinear: for which also we do pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of the calling, and may fulfil all the good pleasure of goodness, and the work of the faith in power,

The Righterzpen said:

Greek doesn't say that though. NIV inserts words that aren't actually there. All the literal translations have "work of faith".

Literal word order:

1 Thessolonians 1:3
"... unceasingly remembering your (the) work (the) of faith, and (the) labor (the) of love...."

"The" is left out of the translation because in Greek it is an identifier of the specific nouns. "the work", "the faith", "the labor", "the love". It's not just any old work, faith, labor or love. It's "the". "Work", "faith", "labor" and "love" are also all singular.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Interlinear: unceasingly remembering of you the work of the faith, and the labour of the love, and the endurance of the hope, of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the presence of our God and Father,

2 Thessalonians 1:11 is actually more clear; since "the" is not its own separate word in this passage.

"...(he may) fill up every good pleasure of goodness and work of faith"

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Interlinear: for which also we do pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of the calling, and may fulfil all the good pleasure of goodness, and the work of the faith in power,

Click to expand...

Either way he's obviously referring to work they did because of faith. Really? You want to say faith is a work? That so beyond the pale it's hard to take seriously.

The Righterzpen said:

Greek doesn't say that though. NIV inserts words that aren't actually there. All the literal translations have "work of faith".

Literal word order:

1 Thessolonians 1:3
"... unceasingly remembering your (the) work (the) of faith, and (the) labor (the) of love...."

"The" is left out of the translation because in Greek it is an identifier of the specific nouns. "the work", "the faith", "the labor", "the love". It's not just any old work, faith, labor or love. It's "the". "Work", "faith", "labor" and "love" are also all singular.

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Interlinear: unceasingly remembering of you the work of the faith, and the labour of the love, and the endurance of the hope, of our Lord Jesus Christ, in the presence of our God and Father,

2 Thessalonians 1:11 is actually more clear; since "the" is not its own separate word in this passage.

"...(he may) fill up every good pleasure of goodness and work of faith"

2 Thessalonians 1:11 Interlinear: for which also we do pray always for you, that our God may count you worthy of the calling, and may fulfil all the good pleasure of goodness, and the work of the faith in power,

Click to expand...

And BTW, if you were right about faith being a work in these verses, it would work directly against what you are trying to prove. Because it would mean these people Paul is commending are being commended for producing faith through their own effort. A little more reading comprehension and a little less cherry picking proof texting...

renniks said:

Either way he's obviously referring to work they did because of faith. Really?

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Yep! A faith that was preordained that they should walk in from the foundations of the word.

Here's some more cherry picked verses. I picked 'em jist fer you!

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

renniks said:

Because it would mean these people Paul is commending are being commended for producing faith through their own effort.

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And since you told me to "go read Galatians" here: (More verses cherry picked just for you! Open wide - they're really tasty!)

Galatians 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

5 He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does HE it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

(Note this verse says "He" does it by; not "you" do it by.)

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Here's some of the rest of those yummy, nice and juicy cherry picked verses! I got ones on the word "belief" too; do you want those too?

I Samuel 26:23, Ephesians 3:12, Philippians 3:9, Colossians 2:12, Jude 3

The Righterzpen said:

Yep! A faith that was preordained that they should walk in from the foundations of the word.

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So, you just conceded that your whole faith is a work thing was a sham ...got it. Yes it was predestined that anyone who continues to be in Christ will walk in faith.

The Righterzpen said:

Yep! A faith that was preordained that they should walk in from the foundations of the word.

Here's some more cherry picked verses. I picked 'em jist fer you!

Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.



And since you told me to "go read Galatians" here: (More verses cherry picked just for you! Open wide - they're really tasty!)

Galatians 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 3:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

5 He therefore that ministers to you the Spirit, and works miracles among you, does HE it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

(Note this verse says "He" does it by; not "you" do it by.)

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Here's some of the rest of those yummy, nice and juicy cherry picked verses! I got ones on the word "belief" too; do you want those too?

I Samuel 26:23, Ephesians 3:12, Philippians 3:9, Colossians 2:12, Jude 3

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What is your point here? We all agree that we are saved by faith.?

renniks said:

So, you just conceded that your whole faith is a work thing was a sham ...got it. Yes it was predestined that anyone who continues to be in Christ will walk in faith.

Click to expand...

renniks said:

What is your point here? We all agree that we are saved by faith.?

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Saved by who's faith?

You seem to continually miss the fact that it's wholly a work of God thing!

The Righterzpen said:

Saved by who's faith?

You seem to continually miss the fact that it's wholly a work of God thing!

Click to expand...

…8For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell one to go, and he goes; and another to come, and he comes. I tell my servant to do something, and he does it.” 9When Jesus heard this, He was amazed at the centurion. Turning to the crowd following Him, He said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such great faith!”

…27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28“O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

So, Jesus was amazed at the faith of people who he irresistibly imparted faith to?

renniks said:

…8For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell one to go, and he goes; and another to come, and he comes. I tell my servant to do something, and he does it.” 9When Jesus heard this, He was amazed at the centurion. Turning to the crowd following Him, He said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such great faith!”

…27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28“O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

So, Jesus was amazed at the faith of people who he irresistibly imparted faith to?

Click to expand...

(snicker, snicker) Yeah. You mean, you didn't realize that all these theological debates were predestined to happen, irrespective of free will, so none of us had any alternatives from which to choose?

It's interesting, is it not, that the predestination defense stops at sin? Dare they suggest that sin too was predestined, they would then have to admit that the guilt for sin could then be laid at the Lord's own feet. That's an uncomfortable thought to many in that crowd, but not all....

Jr

renniks said:

This is looking backwards to the OT saints. It's a promise, that God will be a faithful to those with faith. It's not a deterministic formula.

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Well it is so good that the body of Christ has you to edit and correct teh inspired writers who didn't get it right! (NOT)

Romans 8:
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor

If you are going to be that wrong and make up such foolish stuff like you just did- it is time to end this. This is for the saints NOW!

The Righterzpen said:

I still don't think these are euphemistic phrases. Not saying that there aren't euphemistic passages in the Scripture; I just don't think this word is one of them.
Yet if one wishes to claim that it is; and examining the whole of Scripture text which this word is used; noting rightly so that some of these passages aren't euphemistic. One would still have to answer, why are some of these passages euphemistic when others clearly are not and how would you distinguish the difference?

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You are of course free to think what you want. Iw ill take the word of Jewish historical experts and accept that when they are comparing two thing they commonly used the words love and hate to show which they preferred and which they didn't. But the problem that will persist for you is that Jesus commanded all to hate all their family! So if you do not despise all members of your family

"26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Hate=

μισέω
Transliteration
miseō
Pronunciation
mē-se'-ō ἐμίσησα — 1x
Ἐμίσησάν — 1x
ἐμίσησας — 1x
ἐμίσησεν — 2x
ἐμίσουν — 1x
μεμισήκασιν — 1x
μεμίσηκεν — 1x
μεμισημένου — 1x
μισεῖ — 7x
μισεῖν — 1x
μισεῖς — 1x
μισῇ — 1x
μισήσει — 2x
μισήσεις — 1x
μισήσουσιν — 2x
μισήσωσιν — 1x
μισούμενοι — 4x
μισοῦντας — 1x
μισοῦντες — 2x
μισούντων — 1x
μισοῦσιν — 1x
μισῶ — 3x
μισῶν — 5x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: hate (41x), hateful (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
   
   
2. to be hated, detested
   

this runs opposite to what God inspired here:


22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

So either the bible contradicts itself= or Jesus was not saying to hate family!

renniks said:

Which doesn't change anything about what the verse in question is about. God using Cyprus to bring judgment on nation's. God bringing calamity and judgement.

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So it went from Judgement to Jews to now judgment of nations! Well show where God says judgment in all teh chapter or even explicitly mentions it another way!!!!! Against a nation!

renniks said:

Classic arminians believe in total depravity.

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CITE?

These are the 5 points as argued at the synod of Dort:

The five points of Arminianism (from Jacobus Arminius 1559-1609) are in contrast to the five points of Calvinism. The Arminian five points are

• Human Free Will--This states that though man is fallen, he is not incapacitated by the sinful nature and can freely choose God. His will is not restricted and enslaved by his sinful nature.
• Conditional Election--God chose people for salvation based on His foreknowledge where God looks into the future to see who would respond to the gospel message.
• Universal Atonement--The position that Jesus bore the sin of everyone who ever lived.
• Resistable Grace--The teaching that the grace of God can be resisted and finally beaten so as to reject salvation in Christ.
• Fall from Grace--The Teaching that a person can fall from grace and lose his salvation.

the only points where the bible and Arminius agree is point 3

renniks said:

Uh, he mentions both Jews and Gentiles. But in that part he is specifically referring to Israel, as evidenced by the fact that he then immediately goes to the Jeremiah passage about the Potter (God) who reserves the right to chance his mind when his people, Israel, rebel against him and either show mercy or not. What I find is that Calvinists get the whole chapter entirely backwards. They agree with the Objector that God's will can't be resisted, while Paul says it can! "Who are you to talk back to God?" Confirms man's will to go his own way. Not only that, but ya'll read it as God picking and choosing people based on, well, nothing, when Paul wraps the whole thing up by explaining that God chooses based on faith. It's such a strange case of reading incomprehension that I believe it has to be inspired by the enemy, who always takes what God meant to good and tries to twist it backwards.

Click to expand...

You must thrive on being wrong!

Romans 9:

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

God was using Jacob and Esau then Pharoah to show that it is God who makes HIs choice and not man!

Verse 18 on- shows God has control over every person! Then He goes into a rhetorical argument against a generic human!

This is just like what Jesus said in JOhn 3:36

You just cannot get away that God predestines people to salvation. No one is predestined to hell- all are already condemned. God just calls our whom He will according to the counsel of HIs own will!

He calls us, we come, He saxes us- and in no circumstance will He cast us out! that is the Bible and it will stand! Enjoy His love for a change

renniks said:

…8For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell one to go, and he goes; and another to come, and he comes. I tell my servant to do something, and he does it.” 9When Jesus heard this, He was amazed at the centurion. Turning to the crowd following Him, He said, “I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such great faith!”

…27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.” 28“O woman,” Jesus answered, “your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

So, Jesus was amazed at the faith of people who he irresistibly imparted faith to?

Click to expand...

News flash: Jesus was not omniscient in the flesh!

These people (the centurion and the Greek woman) were totally outside of Judaism with no intent at becoming proselytes. Jesus marveled at what they understood; recognizing and having possessed faith that could have only been instilled in them from the Father; seeing how these people had no exposure to the Old Testament. So of course the fact that they displayed more faith than the Jews did; (who had at least 10 times more knowledge than these gentiles) amazed Jesus.

Wow; Abba Father...... Duuuude!

The fact that Jesus was amazed does not negate the fact that they were predestine. Matter of fact; how amazed would you be of someone who has absolutely no knowledge of Christ recognizing He is sent of God based solely on what people have said that he can do? If you really believe faith is an action of man's will; you'd have no explanation for this; because inherent in your belief is that they'd have to have some knowledge to believe! (Yet they have knowledge; they're born with a conscience and have the witness of the creation. Now whether or not you recognize that is another story!)

Now for argument's sake; let's say that salvation is a product of men's wills, as you claim. Jesus being God incarnate still would not explain why He would be amazed at seeing such grand displays of faith exhibited in heathen dogs. So your argument here isn't really about predestination; it's about God's omniscience.

Jesus asked the disciples at one point who they thought he was. Peter said: "You're the Christ. The son of the living God." And Jesus's response to that was "Flesh and blood did not reveal that to you, but my Father which is in heaven."

Apparently the Father in heaven revealed this also to this centurion and the Greek woman! (How dare HE? That tricky God!)

Luke 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

YOU go God! YOU go God!

SwordmanJr said:

(snicker, snicker) Yeah. You mean, you didn't realize that all these theological debates were predestined to happen, irrespective of free will, so none of us had any alternatives from which to choose?

It's interesting, is it not, that the predestination defense stops at sin? Dare they suggest that sin too was predestined, they would then have to admit that the guilt for sin could then be laid at the Lord's own feet. That's an uncomfortable thought to many in that crowd, but not all....

Jr

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Maybe you should go back and read this entire thread? Your accusation has been addressed many times!

nolidad said:

You are of course free to think what you want. Iw ill take the word of Jewish historical experts and accept that when they are comparing two thing they commonly used the words love and hate to show which they preferred and which they didn't. But the problem that will persist for you is that Jesus commanded all to hate all their family! So if you do not despise all members of your family

"26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

Hate=

μισέω
Transliteration
miseō
Pronunciation
mē-se'-ō ἐμίσησα — 1x
Ἐμίσησάν — 1x
ἐμίσησας — 1x
ἐμίσησεν — 2x
ἐμίσουν — 1x
μεμισήκασιν — 1x
μεμίσηκεν — 1x
μεμισημένου — 1x
μισεῖ — 7x
μισεῖν — 1x
μισεῖς — 1x
μισῇ — 1x
μισήσει — 2x
μισήσεις — 1x
μισήσουσιν — 2x
μισήσωσιν — 1x
μισούμενοι — 4x
μισοῦντας — 1x
μισοῦντες — 2x
μισούντων — 1x
μισοῦσιν — 1x
μισῶ — 3x
μισῶν — 5x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: hate (41x), hateful (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. to hate, pursue with hatred, detest
   
   
2. to be hated, detested

this runs opposite to what God inspired here:


22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

So either the bible contradicts itself= or Jesus was not saying to hate family!

Click to expand...

Please explain then what it means when it uses this word "hate" and speaks of the world hating Christ. That particular word is used in the context of all those passages. More often than not, contextually speaking, its meaning only makes sense as "to despise" then to "love less"

Is it euphemistic in those contexts too?

If you're going to argue a point; you have to argue it consistently across the entirety of the Scripture texts.

Let Scripture interpret itself; not what Jewish historical experts think.

The Righterzpen said:

Now for argument's sake; let's say that salvation is a product of men's wills, as you claim.

Click to expand...

How many times do I have to explain that I do not believe this nonsense? Salvation is not a product of man's will. It is entirely God's doing, however God has a the condition of faith. He could have set any condition he wanted, that was his prerogative, but he chose to administer salvation to those who would humble themselves, and choose belief.

nolidad said:

Well it is so good that the body of Christ has you to edit and correct teh inspired writers who didn't get it right! (NOT)

Romans 8:
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor

If you are going to be that wrong and make up such foolish stuff like you just did- it is time to end this. This is for the saints NOW!

Click to expand...

Perhaps you could take a reading comprehension course? It is about the old testament saints, and is meant to edify and encourage us. I'm puzzled by why you keep reposting the same scripture as if I've never read it.

The Righterzpen said:

News flash: Jesus was not omniscient in the flesh!

Click to expand...

Hogwash! Jesus was fully God. at the very least he could know whatever he wanted to know.
Speaking of Jesus the Apostle Paul says that “in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form” (Col. 2:9). Jesus put Himself on an equal level with God the Father: ”So that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him” (John 5:23). The Greek word translated “even as” expresses this equivalence. The Apostle Thomas confessed the risen Christ as “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28), and was not rebuked or corrected by Jesus. In Revelation 5:13-14 “every created thing” gives equal worship to the Father and the Son.
People are commended for their faith, Hebrews 11:39 ,chastised for their lack of faith, Matthew 8:26, Luke 8:25, Matthew 16:8, and that's just a few of them. In your doctrine, God is apparently praising and chastising people for things that he did not do for them...