ad orientem vs. populum

JM said:

"The Novus Ordo allowed, for pastoral reasons, the celebration of the Mass versus populum—that is, facing the people. While ad orientem is still normative—that is, the way that the Mass should be normally be celebrated, versus populum has become the standard practice in the Novus Ordo. The Traditional Latin Mass is always celebrated ad orientem."

The Top 10 Differences Between the Old Mass and the New Mass

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It's the one change that I most want to see in the way the novus ordo is commonly done. I think we need to emphasize the priest and the people focused on God the Father rather than the priest focused on the people and the people focused on the priest.

I had a chance to visit the Newman Center at the University of Nebraska in Omaha. They have a whole new building with a new chapel. The altar is right up there against the east wall, meaning the ONLY way to celebrate is ad orientem. Someone was VERY deliberate in designing it this way. And it works. It doesn't seem odd, and scads of plain Catholic college students take it in stride.

JM said:

"The Novus Ordo allowed, for pastoral reasons, the celebration of the Mass versus populum—that is, facing the people. While ad orientem is still normative—that is, the way that the Mass should be normally be celebrated, versus populum has become the standard practice in the Novus Ordo. The Traditional Latin Mass is always celebrated ad orientem."

The Top 10 Differences Between the Old Mass and the New Mass

Click to expand...

I notice your information says you are Protestant. Why might you be posting about this topic here? I'm just curious.

chevyontheriver said:

I notice your information says you are Protestant. Why might you be posting about this topic here? I'm just curious.

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I'm kinda glad to have something like this to help me to understand what people are discussing, bc I am new to the faith and do not have any knowledge regarding the past, other than the once or twice my mom took me to mid night mass in the '60's, and it was all in Latin.

I love being edified, so when the priest faces us and helps us to understand the word of God, it gives me so much joy and happiness.

In the '60's, I remember being completely clueless as to what was being said.

Did not Jesus face the people He was interacting with?

Is not Peter the rock and our priests represent Him?

Let Him teach us then and lead us, the flock, right?

What if Jesus faced a stone and spoke in Latin and not Aramaic?

joymercy said:

I'm kinda glad to have something like this to help me to understand what people are discussing, bc I am new to the faith and do not have any knowledge regarding the past, other than the once or twice my mom took me to mid night mass in the '60's, and it was all in Latin.

In the '60's, I remember being completely clueless as to what was being said.

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Sorry you didn't have much of any experience with traditional liturgy. No big surprise it was confusing. But then had you gone many times you would have learned enough Latin to know what was happening. There were always Latin/English parallel translations so any one old enough to read could follow it and explain it to their children. And children can learn Latin, as witnessed by the countless citizens of the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire who learned it and spoke it as their native tongue starting around two years of age.

I love being edified, so when the priest faces us and helps us to understand the word of God, it gives me so much joy and happiness.

Did not Jesus face the people He was interacting with?

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In a mass ad orientem the priest faces the altar some of the time and the people some of the time. The readings are delivered facing the people. The homily is delivered facing the people. But much of the mass is a prayer to God the Father and was delivered facing the altar, the priest as stand in for Jesus addressing His Father in heaven.

Is not Peter the rock and our priests represent Him?

Let Him teach us then and lead us, the flock, right?

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Actually the priest represents Jesus at the mass, praying to the Father. And represents Jesus as teacher in the Liturgy of the Word.

What if Jesus faced a stone and spoke in Latin and not Aramaic?

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There are TWO elements in the liturgy. The Liturgy of the Word, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The Liturgy of the Word is addressed to us, is delivered facing us, is in our native tongue. And that's how it was even in the old Latin Mass except for the well known common prayers of introduction. The Liturgy of the Eucharist is addressed to the Father, is fittingly delivered facing the altar/the east/ad orientem, and has for more than a thousand years been done in Latin in Roman Rite Catholic churches. Jesus did face His Father in his prayers from Calvary, not addressing them to us but to His Father.

The mass in Latin is allowable. Maybe not for everyone though. Those who attend it have access to English translations which they can use until they learn the Latin. And the readings and homily are in English delivered facing the people. But it was that way back in the 60's too. If you are adventuresome you might want to attend such a mass some day. OR try one of the Anglican Ordinariate masses of former Episcopalians who have become Catholic and have kept much of the Cranmerian Prayerbook language. They have retained the ad orientem position but it's all in English.

JM said:

I'm studying St. Thomas's Summa and following theological rabbit trails. Sometimes it takes me to fascinating places and I wanted to share.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

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Ah, yes. I think you posted about that a week or so ago?

Welcome.

The old liturgy had a lot of positives. So does the newer liturgy. The ad orientem aspect was one of the better differences in favor of the old liturgy. I can take or leave Latin though. True it sounds more sacred and the English can sound more banal, but I do think the comprehension for visitors is important. Gone are the days when every school taught Latin and educated people could all read it.

Have you made any recent progress in studying the Summa?