The Billy Graham Rule Goes to Court

brinny said:

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Judging by your emoji, what is it that you don't understand?

pescador said:

Judging by your emoji, what is it that you don't understand?

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Your post. What is it you are referring to?

Thanks, pescador.

seeking.IAM said:

It seems to me that "rule" only applies in a male dominated world. I work in a female dominated profession, where I could not possibly do my job if I refused to meet alone with a woman. Should I have told my female boss I'm not coming to her supervision meeting because I can't meet with her alone? There would have been a word for that: "Unemployed."

Men shouldn't blame women for their lust and lack of self control.

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I agree, particularly with the part of your post that I emphasized.

RDKirk said:

If he can't be trusted alone with women, he can't be trusted to wear a badge and carry a gun.

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I agree. I think that is suspicious behavior for a police officer.

RaymondG said:

Would it not have been wiser to ask the Lord for help with temptation and appearances than to ask the employer for a chaperone? Is not the Lord a very present help in the times of trouble....making all things work together for our good?

insubordination is unnecessary, when we serve a God who makes ways, out of no way.

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Don't you get it, it isn't a matter that he had a sexual problem, it was his being in a position of possible compromise, it shouldn't automatically be assumed the guy needs help with temptation, and if that is your default position, then you are the one who needs prayer.

redleghunter said:

He is avoiding a situation where he will be responsible to prove his innocence.

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No. He is refusing to train a female officer because he can't control himself. His excuse is horrible by any other measure.

That's the point. Most of the #Metoo accusations are a "he said she said with no witnesses."

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Do you


It seems the problem always is with the man in the dialogue.[/QUOTE]

redleghunter said:

He is avoiding a situation where he will be responsible to prove his innocence.

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No, he's refusing to train a female because he can't control himself. There is no reason to assume he would have to prove his innocence unless he knows he will molest her if they were alone.

That's the point. Most of the #Metoo accusations are a "he said she said with no witnesses."

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If he acted like a Christian there would be no problem.

It seems the problem always is with the man in the dialogue.

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Spoken as if you have a problem with women.

I totally agree with you. My wife of 19 years has had three affairs and two of those were with Pastors and the other was with a man who worked in the same school as her.

usexpat97 said:

Obviously if he wanted to give up his job, he would have applied to work for the Apex PD instead BEFORE he made his religious request. Instead he applied after he was involuntarily terminated, and when they called Samford PD for a reference they cited his religisous request as the reason.

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This man was willing to give up his job for his beliefs....nothing wrong with that. I believe that they should have warned him, if he didnt already know, that failure to do what was asked without chaperones would result in termination. If so, they had every right to not force him to do something he did not want to do, and hire someone who could. And the man fired, had every right to refuse to do what his beliefs would not allow him to do.

usexpat97 said:

And it keeps being conveniently overlooked that this is not even necessarily about him. It could be about false accusations, or his wife being uncomfortable with it. You don't just go have your quiet time and...wham! No more false accusers anymore. That has been said over and over.

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And now he does not have to ever train a woman alone in the police car. Why is this termination not a good thing for him? Why should the employer, instead be forced to hire someone else to watch this one employee work? If he did this for His Wife....she should love him more....If it was done for God, he has nothing to worry about.

BUt the employer is not at fault for not wanting to hire two people to do a one man job....It is unreasonable to ask them to do so.

brinny said:

i'm praying that justice is done, and that anything that entailed evil intent or injustice towards Mr. Torres is rectified by the living God, in particular being fired without cause.

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Im not so quick to demand justice.....For it was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand.

If we all got what we deserved we would all receive hellfire.

Instead I pray for peace and forgiveness......and for everyone to receive their hearts desire.

brinny said:

Praying.

Let it rain.

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You see, Im ok with the snow and the sleet as well, as long as God's will is done.

brinny said:

Your post. What is it you are referring to?

Thanks, pescador.

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I am referring to the fact that in Christ Jesus there is no differentiation between men and women, i.e., we are all to be regarded as equal people. Lust (or the appearance of lust) should have no bearing on Christians. If the guy violated the terms of his employment by some imagined rule about lust that is his choice.

If a man can't look upon a woman as an equal person, without lustful feelings, he is in REAL trouble. He is trapped by sin. This attitude also applies to LGBTQ people, people of color, people of other ethnicities, etc. "For God so loved the world..."

JIMINZ said:

Don't you get it, it isn't a matter that he had a sexual problem, it was his being in a position of possible compromise, it shouldn't automatically be assumed the guy needs help with temptation, and if that is your default position, then you are the one who needs prayer.

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If you are righteous, please send your prayers, for they will avail much.

Yeah though I walk through valleys of shadows of death, I will fear no evil. Whether this evil is temptation, he can deliver me, Or threat of accusation, for "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake."

If you feel you have to go to man to protect you from temptation or accusation, it would be wise to save some of those prayers for yourself as well.

RaymondG said:

Im not so quick to demand justice.....For it was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand.

If we all got what we deserved we would all receive hellfire.

Instead I pray for peace and forgiveness......and for everyone to receive their hearts desire.


You see, Im ok with the snow and the sleet as well, as long as God's will is done.

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That's good to know Raymond, that you're ok that God's will is done. That's EXACTLY what i'm praying for. He IS a God of justice. It's all through His Word that He is. In addition, there's that verse about when someone digs a pit for others to fall into that they will fall into it themselves.

This verse below comes to mind.

Praying.

Let it rain.

pescador said:

I am referring to the fact that in Christ Jesus there is no differentiation between men and women, i.e., we are all to be regarded as equal people. Lust (or the appearance of lust) should have no bearing on Christians. If the guy violated the terms of his employment by some imagined rule about lust that is his choice.

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The OP is about injustice and being fired without cause, amongst other things.

Thanks pescador.

brinny said:

That's good to know Raymond, that you're ok that God's will is done. That's EXACTLY what i'm praying for. He IS a God of justice. It's all through His Word that He is. In addition, there's that verse about when someone digs a pit for others to fall into that they will fall into it themselves.

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Oh ok, it was just a little confusing because you were explicitly stating that you were praying for one side. So for you the least is the employer....so how you treat them, is the treatment given as unto "Me"

This is for the "reader" so no need to send the confused icon. And keep pressing the pray icon....Im trying to get my "like" counter up...so your help is appreciated.

brinny said:

This verse below comes to mind.

Praying.

Let it rain.

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Beautiful verse.....Although I do not see any ditches dug or boulders rolled.....

Let the clouds subside and the Sun shine on all living.

RaymondG said:

Oh ok, it was just a little confusing because you were explicitly stating that you were praying for one side. So for you the least is the employer....so how you treat them, is the treatment given as unto "Me"

This is for the "reader" so no need to send the confused icon. And keep pressing the pray icon....Im trying to get my "like" counter up...so your help is appreciated.


Beautiful verse.....Although I do not side any ditches dug or boulders rolled.....

Let the clouds subside and the Sun shine on all living.

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I agree about digging those pits for others. God knows who does. Therefore it is best that we pray that He sorts it out. God abhors evil plans that are meant to "set-up", "entrap", and harm others. We are ALWAYS to pray that justice is done.

I'm praying that justice is done, and that any corruption, etc. is brought to light and dealt with.

Praying.

Let it rain.

RaymondG said:

If you are righteous, please send your prayers, for they will avail much.

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They most certainly would, but when the case involves someone who has shut their eyes and Ears, it isn't recommended.

Oh, I think I see why the 51-year-old deputy's religious request caused such hardship on the Lee County PD: because they needed to train the female deputy specifically on HIS route, in HIS precinct. That's why she couldn't be trained by just any deputy.

That will be a wonderful defense for the PD: "No, it was not religious discrimination. It was age discrimination."

JIMINZ said:

They most certainly would, but when the case involves someone who has shut their eyes and Ears, it isn't recommended.

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I find no fault in you saving your prayers for those who open their eyes and ears to darkness. Just note that you cannot use a spot light to point out darkness..... no matter how many times you shine the light on darkness.....the darkness seems to leave as soon as the light hits it.

We are the lights of the world.

Not a bad thing for those who prefer to live in peace.....but it can make one an outcast and subject of ridicule because they cannot see the darkness everyone else tries to point out.

RaymondG said:

I find no fault in you saving your prayers for those who open their eyes and ears to darkness. Just note that you cannot use a spot light to point out darkness..... no matter how many times you shine the light on darkness.....the darkness seems to leave as soon as the light hits it.

We are the lights of the world.

Not a bad thing for those who prefer to live in peace.....but it can make one an outcast and subject of ridicule because they cannot see the darkness everyone else tries to point out.

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Are you saying YOUR Candle is bigger and brighter than mine, I would have you know I got my Candle from the Believers, Candle shop in the Kingdom, and they are guaranteed to be of the best quality and of the highest lumens available anywhere.

If the officer couldn't train a female colleague, then he also can't arrest, search, or transport a female suspect by himself. Which means he can't do his job. By putting Police administration in the middle of his Billy Graham rights and anti-discrimination laws, they really had no choice but to let him go. It was a no-win situation.