What is the Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism?

sdowney717

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Jesus Blesses Little Children
Mark 10, it seems people are still trying to keep Christ and little children away from each other!
13 Then they brought little children to Him, that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked those who brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.

15 Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.” 16 And He took them up in His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.
 
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BABerean2

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Because that verse is talking about unbelieving adults and has nothing to do with children being unclean or holy...
Yes, well my wife teaches high school and I view them as not children either.
It is referring to infants and little children, like the ones Jesus says for such is the kingdom of heaven. The disciples rebuked the people bringing to Him the little children and HE said do not prevent them from coming to me , they were trying to keep them away from Him. And HE blessed them.

What did Paul mean in 1 Corinthians 7: 14 when he said children of a believer are holy, not unclean?

At what age does your "holy" child become a sinner, who needs a Savior?

Or do you think they are already saved, if their parents are believers.

.
 
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sdowney717

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Matthew 21:15-17 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)
15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that He did, and the children crying out in the temple and saying, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were sore displeased,

16 and said unto Him, “Hearest thou what these say?” And Jesus said unto them, “Yea, have ye never read, ‘Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings Thou hast perfected praise’?”

17 And He left them and went out of the city into Bethany, and He lodged there.

Psalm 8
O Lord, our Lord,
How excellent is Your name in all the earth,
Who have set Your glory above the heavens!

2 Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants
You have ordained strength,
Because of Your enemies,
That You may silence the enemy and the avenger.

Jesus uses that OT verse to show a truth, that His enemies and His critics He will silence by the power of His Spirit which will be made evident in the young child's and suckling infant's lives at the proper time, most likely at the judgement.
Suckling infants and babes (little children), He ordained His strength (by His Spirit) that they will sing praises to Him. If they were not saved, they would not be ordained to do that.
 
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redleghunter

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What you have described was not the Theology of the Early Church before Augustine. All of the Early Church Fathers before Augustine held to a different viewpoint of free will.

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They were not Pelagians either.
 
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redleghunter

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Augustine's inferior Latin version of Romans 5:12 led him to believe that not only was Adam's sin nature inherited by all men,
That seems to be in all the Greek manuscripts and properly translated in the English:

Romans 5: NASB

12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

15But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. 16The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. 17For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

18So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. 19For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. 20The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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redleghunter

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I don't know how you go back and "revise" someone's writings who is long dead? But there are obviously people studying and correcting his mistakes.
Centuries later. Maybe you can share the better 21st Century translations you rely on to prove your assertions?
 
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redleghunter

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Dr. Ken Wilson has written a simplified version of his book on the origin of what has come to be known as "Calvinism".

The title of the new book is "The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism".

The book reveals the fact that after about 25 years of ministry Augustine changed his view on election, in order to justify infant baptism.
Augustine decided that infant baptism was correct, and then set about to find the scripture which proved him correct.

Mr. Wilson gets it wrong again. Augustine did not change his view on election due to infant baptism. Augustine believed infant baptism removed the stain of original sin.

Perhaps Mr. Wilson and everyone here should actually read what Augustine wrote and what exactly he was responding to? Instead of cherry picking a few lines from a very long discourse on Grace and Free Will.
Written by St. Augustine of Hippo in A.D. 426 or 427

Extract from Augustine's Retractions (Book II, Chapter 66): There are some persons who suppose that the freedom of the will is denied whenever God's grace is maintained, and who on their side defend their liberty of will so peremptorily as to deny the grace of God. This grace, as they assert, is bestowed according to our own merits. It is in consequence of their opinions that I wrote the book entitled On Grace and Free Will. This work I addressed to the monks of Adrumetum, in whose monastry first arose the controversy on that subject, and that in such a manner that some of them were obliged to consult me thereon. The work begins with these words: "With reference to those persons who so preach the liberty of the human will."

Addressed to Valentinus and the monks of Adrumetum, and completed in one book.

Chapter 1 [I.]— The Occasion and Argument of This Work.
With reference to those persons who so preach and defend man's free will, as boldly to deny, and endeavour to do away with, the grace of God which calls us to Him, and delivers us from our evil deserts, and by which we obtain the good deserts which lead to everlasting life: we have already said a good deal in discussion, and committed it to writing, so far as the Lord has vouchsafed to enable us. But since there are some persons who so defend God's grace as to deny man's free will, or who suppose that free will is denied when grace is defended, I have determined to write somewhat on this point to your Love, my brother Valentinus, and the rest of you, who are serving God together under the impulse of a mutual love. For it has been told me concerning you, brethren, by some members of your brotherhood who have visited us, and are the bearers of this communication of ours to you, that there are dissensions among you on this subject. This, then, being the case, dearly beloved, that you be not disturbed by the obscurity of this question, I counsel you first to thank God for such things as you understand; but as for all which is beyond the reach of your mind, pray for understanding from the Lord, observing, at the same time peace and love among yourselves; and until He Himself lead you to perceive what at present is beyond your comprehension, walk firmly on the ground of which you are sure. This is the advice of the Apostle Paul, who, after saying that he was not yet perfect, Philippians 3:12 a little later adds, Let us, therefore, as many as are perfect, be thus minded, Philippians 3:15 — meaning perfect to a certain extent, but not having attained to a perfection sufficient for us; and then immediately adds, And if, in any thing, you be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereunto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule. Philippians 3:16 For by walking in what we have attained, we shall be able to advance to what we have not yet attained — God revealing it to us if in anything we are otherwise minded — provided we do not give up what He has already revealed.


Chapter 2 [II.]— He Proves the Existence of Free Will in Man from the Precepts Addressed to Him by God.
Now He has revealed to us, through His Holy Scriptures, that there is in a man a free choice of will. But how He has revealed this I do not recount in human language, but in divine. There is, to begin with, the fact that God's precepts themselves would be of no use to a man unless he had free choice of will, so that by performing them he might obtain the promised rewards. For they are given that no one might be able to plead the excuse of ignorance, as the Lord says concerning the Jews in the gospel: If I had not come and spoken unto them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. John 15:22 Of what sin does He speak but of that great one which He foreknew, while speaking thus, that they would make their own — that is, the death they were going to inflict upon Him? For they did not have no sin before Christ came to them in the flesh. The apostle also says: The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who hold back the truth in unrighteousness; because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has showed it unto them. For the invisible things of Him are from the creation of the world clearly seen — being understood by the things that are made — even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are inexcusable. Romans 1:18-20 In what sense does he pronounce them to be inexcusable, except with reference to such excuse as human pride is apt to allege in such words as, If I had only known, I would have done it; did I not fail to do it because I was ignorant of it? or, I would do it if I knew how; but I do not know, therefore I do not do it? All such excuse is removed from them when the precept is given them, or the knowledge is made manifest to them how to avoid sin.


 
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ICONO'CLAST

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1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

When viewed in context, the instructions above came from Paul, instead of God.

Paul was showing that the believing spouse could be preaching the Gospel to the unbelieving spouse, and children.


.
Paul's writing came from God. It was God breathed.
 
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BABerean2

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Paul's writing came from God. It was God breathed.

The writing is God breathed, but did the Apostles ever make an error in judgment, and does the scripture reveal those errors?

Why did Paul have to correct Peter in dealing with the Galatians.

Why did Paul have Timothy circumcised, but not Titus?

The Word of God is perfect, but were the Apostles perfect?

If Paul said the advice given in a passage came from him, instead of God, then I believe him.

.
 
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BABerean2

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Perhaps Mr. Wilson and everyone here should actually read what Augustine wrote and what exactly he was responding to? Instead of cherry picking a few lines from a very long discourse on Grace and Free Will.

Dr. Kenneth M. Wilson did his doctoral dissertation at Oxford by reading all of the writings of Augustine, in the original language, in chronological order.

His complete findings are found in the 389 page work titled, "Augustine's Conversion from Traditional Free Choice to "Non-free Free Will".


I have a copy of the book in my library.

.
 
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redleghunter

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Dr. Kenneth M. Wilson did his doctoral dissertation at Oxford by reading all of the writings of Augustine, in the original language, in chronological order.

His complete findings are found in the 389 page work titled, "Augustine's Conversion from Traditional Free Choice to "Non-free Free Will".


I have a copy of the book in my library.

.
He should get his money back. He hasn’t a clue what Augustine argued.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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"BABerean2, p




The Word of God is perfect, but were the Apostles perfect?

If Paul said the advice given in a passage came from him, instead of God, then I believe him.

You do not understand scripture because of this error. Paul was saying he was not directly quoting Jesus.
 
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BABerean2

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"BABerean2, p






You do not understand scripture because of this error. Paul was saying he was not directly quoting Jesus.

Thank God for the Bible, which others here can read for themselves, and make up their own mind.

1 Corinthians 7:12

(CJB) To the rest I say -- I, not the Lord: if any brother has a wife who is not a believer, and she is satisfied to go on living with him, he should not leave her.

(ESV) To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.

(Geneva) But to ye remnant I speake, & not ye Lord, If any brother haue a wife, ye beleeueth not, if she be cotent to dwell with him, let him not forsake her.

(Greek NT TR) τοις δε λοιποις εγω λεγω ουχ ο κυριος ει τις αδελφος γυναικα εχει απιστον και αυτη συνευδοκει οικειν μετ αυτου μη αφιετω αυτην

(GW) I (not the Lord) say to the rest of you: If any Christian man is married to a woman who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to live with him, he should not divorce her.

(LITV-TSP) But to the rest I say, not the Lord, if any brother has an unbelieving wife, and she consents to live with him, let him not leave her.

(KJV) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

(KJV+) ButG1161 to theG3588 restG3062 speakG3004 I,G1473 notG3756 theG3588 Lord:G2962 If anyG1536 brotherG80 hathG2192 a wifeG1135 that believeth not,G571 andG2532 sheG846 be pleasedG4909 to dwellG3611 withG3326 him,G846 let him notG3361 put her away.G863 G846

(NKJV) But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.

(YLT) And to the rest I speak—not the Lord—if any brother hath a wife unbelieving, and she is pleased to dwell with him, let him not send her away;

.
 
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ICONO'CLAST

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Thank God for the Bible, which others here can read for themselves, and make up their own mind.

1 Corinthians 7:12

(CJB) To the rest I say -- I, not the Lord: if any brother has a wife who is not a believer, and she is satisfied to go on living with him, he should not leave her.

(ESV) To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.

(Geneva) But to ye remnant I speake, & not ye Lord, If any brother haue a wife, ye beleeueth not, if she be cotent to dwell with him, let him not forsake her.

(Greek NT TR) τοις δε λοιποις εγω λεγω ουχ ο κυριος ει τις αδελφος γυναικα εχει απιστον και αυτη συνευδοκει οικειν μετ αυτου μη αφιετω αυτην

(GW) I (not the Lord) say to the rest of you: If any Christian man is married to a woman who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to live with him, he should not divorce her.

(LITV-TSP) But to the rest I say, not the Lord, if any brother has an unbelieving wife, and she consents to live with him, let him not leave her.

(KJV) But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

(KJV+) ButG1161 to theG3588 restG3062 speakG3004 I,G1473 notG3756 theG3588 Lord:G2962 If anyG1536 brotherG80 hathG2192 a wifeG1135 that believeth not,G571 andG2532 sheG846 be pleasedG4909 to dwellG3611 withG3326 him,G846 let him notG3361 put her away.G863 G846

(NKJV) But to the rest I, not the Lord, say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her.

(YLT) And to the rest I speak—not the Lord—if any brother hath a wife unbelieving, and she is pleased to dwell with him, let him not send her away;

.
Peter called Pauls writing scripture...that is the word of God written; find a bible teaching church and begin to learn truth.
2pet3
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 
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redleghunter

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Do you think the Latin Vulgate is the best? Didn't say anything about 21 century translations BTW.
What I quoted from was not the Vulgate. Romans 5 confirms we all inherit the sin of Adam.
 
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redleghunter

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The writing is God breathed, but did the Apostles ever make an error in judgment, and does the scripture reveal those errors?

Why did Paul have to correct Peter in dealing with the Galatians.

Why did Paul have Timothy circumcised, but not Titus?

The Word of God is perfect, but were the Apostles perfect?

If Paul said the advice given in a passage came from him, instead of God, then I believe him.

.
Paul explains why he circumcised Timothy.
 
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BABerean2

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What I quoted from was not the Vulgate. Romans 5 confirms we all inherit the sin of Adam.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

.
 
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