hi all I hope the love of God surrounds you today and great to see this has continued in a gracious manner. I do agree there's a lot of misconstrued statements in the press but you could argue there are also certain facts about trump that can't be denied. I'd like to respond and comment to a few people who've commented since yesterday before I propose another angle to our discussion.
Oh well, I will not try to change your view but I disagree with you completely.
I know that the LORD God is sovereign and is WHO miraculously put Donald Trump in the White house in an answer to Christian prayer to hold back the evil for just a brief time longer, that is waiting to take over.
I'd like to question then did the Lord god miraculously put Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin and others in power who've used mass murder on an industrial scale? Let's assume yes. Let's not get into the why, god works in mysterious ways. We as a world took action to remove them. We prayed for God to act, and I would suggest God led great leaders to take the fight to those evil governments. Biblicy, we should have just let them get on with it yes, let them take our country and massacre who they want? Because we're not to speak evil of our leaders (let's assume 'our' means all leaders). In theory it doesn't matter, with eternal life as long as we love god and build his church here no matter how painful the death we won't care in heaven.
If that's not the case then it affects the smallest instance of a leader acting immorally or in an evil way. If God called leaders and people to fight against Hitler, then you could argue God can call people to 'fight' in any way against leaders they feel are evil in 'some way. When I say evil let's face it all sins are equal and God hates the sins of the man or woman who lies as much as one who commits mass genocide.
It's an intriguing train of thought - because you can't have it both ways. The scripture seems to suggest we should not fight against oppression as the early church didn't fight against the terrifying oppression of the romans. What is different to ISIS and the Chinese or the Russians or whoever you think are the evil enemy now. Should we not welcome them with open arms to our countries and turn the other cheek as they take over?
Or does God also call us to act and we are the instrument of change in some cases? Does God call 'some of us to act' and that is their own journey with God that others cannot judge (because he is the ONLY judge let's remember).
Those two historic facts help explain why the Church is still strong in America today, and all but dead in England. It also explains why you've given up your firearms and we refuse to.
Oh, and speaking of the UK...how's that three-year delayed Brexit vote working out for you? Whether you agree or disagree with Brexit, the fact that your government has decided to simply ignore the democratic results of a lawful referendum should be quite concerning. If that happened here, I'm sure bullets would be flying in short order.
Actually the church is strong in the UK the evangelical movement is fast growing and we have a very diverse range of churches. The Church of England maybe a relic of the past but is still a vital part of every community. Hillsong alone attracts 10,000 people every sunday in central london.
I'm very glad we gave up firearms since our gun crime rate is almost non existent. Even our police aren't armed (except very specially trained squads). Also if we're following scripture here why would you need a gun?
As for Brexit, i saw this fantastic allegory.
I’m not saying there wasn’t a democratic mandate for Brexit at the time. I’m just saying if I narrowly decided to order fish at a restaurant that was known for chicken, but said it was happy to offer fish, and so far I’ve been waiting three hours, and two chefs who promised to cook the fish had quit, and the third one is promising to deliver the fish in the next five minutes whether it’s cooked or not, or indeed still alive, and all the waiting staff have spent the last few hours arguing amongst themselves about whether I wanted battered cod, grilled salmon, jellied eels or dolphin kebabs, and if large parts of the restaurant appeared to be on fire but no-one was paying attention to it because they were all arguing about fish, I would quite like, just once, to be asked if I definitely still wanted the fish.
The original vote was a game by Cameron to gain power, it backfired. The Leave campaign were not seen for dust - did they come out to celebrate their victory? No it was a political game that backfired for everyone involved. Surely if they had actually wanted to win they would have come out going this is amazing it's what you wanted and we're going to lead you to victory. Nope. not a peep. The leave campaign was allegedely illegally funded, possibly had russian interference, and lied about what the country would gain.
Given so much has changed it's why we want another referendum based on what is actually now on offer not vague promises from several years ago.
So the message from Trump to the world is - TAKE CARE OF YOURSELVES, DONT LEAN ON US ANYMORE AND PAY YOUR OWN SHARE.
CHINA may play ball with our new trade deals, if not, WE WILL FIND OTHER COUNTRIES TO REPLACE THEM. I've been hoping for this to happen - to wean ourselves off Chinese products. Besides, they have low standards, have even tried to poison our toys with lead and so be careful, ultimately, they want to rule the world. Ain't gonna happen any time soon. Btw, dont eat their food, dogs are dying from chicken jerky made over there - mine almost did.
As for your Global Warming, it's the biggest fraud perpetrated on humans. It is a disguise for global governance, which starts with all countries (with the USA being the biggest challenge) to relinquish their sovereignty and redistribute the wealth in order to become a One World Government. This is the Left's move towards GLOBALISM. False data, governments, scientists, cohearsed into complying - with the media right behind them, all conspiring towards this goal. Not on Trump's watch.
We actually banned American chicken as it doesn't come up to the standards of European food standards so I'd be careful about criticising chinese chicken
Trump's tariffs don't help - here's how. American producers of products in china have to raise prices or eat the difference to absorb the tarrifs on products they commission to be made in china. (it's mostly US companies making products in china that get hurt the worst). Likely they'll eat the difference to stay competitive, which means lower margins and can lead to staff cuts or even closures. There is no production base for many industries in the US or not enough capacity and if they have capacity they're very expensive, few companies will make multi-million investments to increase their capacity because Trump 'might' bring in a tariff or might keep it in place. He cancels them or brings them in on a whim that's no basis for manufacturing investment. You also bring in food internationally as do we since it's more commercial to grow other things in the US as farmers. The reality of massive global economies is we grow things where it makes more sense.
Let's dial that down to the US level - is every state self sufficient making and growing everything it needs no, it grows and produces what it's best at. So steel works happen in certain areas, farming is best in certain areas and is shipped around the country where it's needed the most. As the world has grown we now do that on a global scale. West Africa is fantastic at growing food and ships all kind of vegetables and fruits in to Europe. some countries can make steel more easily, more cheaply (let's say they're closer to the big deposits).
As to Global Warming, of course, it's a BIG issue. Do you realise for it to be a massive global conspiracy literally millions of people would have to be in on it - there's plenty of examples of oil companies funding the lobbying to disprove climate change. Pretty much all the major scientists in the world agree it's happening to some degree.
ExxonMobil climate change controversy - Wikipedia
Top oil firms spending millions lobbying to block climate change policies, says report
I'll suggest a logical answer to this:
1) you agree with climate change and your wrong - millions of trees planted, cleaner air for your children, cleaner energy, a generally healthier and prettier world but it costs money of course
2) You agree with climate change and your right - maybe just maybe you help reduce the effect of climate change and save millions from suffering
3) you disagree with climate change and your right - we'll all be very thankful in years to come that the potential disasters don't come to pass.
4) you disagree with climage change and you're wrong - millions suffer or die, wars, famine, civilisation possibly is in danger of collapsing.
- So if I'm wrong the world is fine, if you are wrong millions could die, I know which side of the bet I'd rather be on...
And lastly I ask you this IF you're wrong and you have convinced others not to work to help avert climate change would you agree to be criminally liable for those who die and lose their livilhoods? do you deny climate change that much?
You remember that next time a Dem is in the White House. Beyond that we are under no obligation to support the wicked godless behavior of any king.
Id agree - of course it comes down to whether we agree Trump is wicked and godless. That's another discussion. But in principle would you all agree you should not support the wicked behaviour of a leader or you should?
Any church that voices support for politics should not be listened to. The churches job is to help people live better lives spiritually through a relationship with Jesus Christ. It should not talk about it's political views or who ever political person they support. You are a church, be a church.. the government is outside of God's walls so leave it there.
So if this is the case why do US churches get so involved... I'm guessing because of the desire to see change in LGBT and abortion laws?
What are you talking about??? In relation to governmental/political power, St. Paul wrote that power comes from God.
So we should obey the authorities unless they command us to violate our own faith.
In particular, the American tradition is and has always been that religion has a place in public life and the government should largely stay out of religious matters; religion, by contrast, is not obligated to say out of political matters. That doesn't make getting involved with political matters a good idea. But it's hardly unusual in America's history.
I would suggest that Trump maybe asking you to violate your faith by endorsing camps that abuse innocents, by encouraging you to be racist, to laugh at women. I could easily provide many many direct complete quotes of tweets which are racist or sexist.
All earthly governments are ordained of God. However, this doesn't mean that God endorses them or even supports them. He simply permits them to be to keep wickedness in check. Human governments are just fallen humans trying to govern other fallen humans. And earthly governments will always degenerate into tyranny. We should obey whatever laws are reasonable and for the common good, pay our taxes, and live peaceably with all men. However, when an earthly government passes laws that violate Christian faith, practice, or conviction... we should peacefully disobey.
Christ's Kingdom, our Kingdom, is not of this world. We do well not to become too entangled with it's political systems. They corrupt good manners. Our focus should be the Kingdom of God, the Body of Christ, the Church. We are strangers and pilgrims down here on this earth.
If the soldiers come to round up people of one colour or faith, what can and can't you do? Is one called to pray, and another called to act. We cannot and should not judge. So if one woman is called to pick up the gun and shoot those who are evil, whether she feels called by god to do so, it will be between her and god, and not for us to say don't do that or encourage others to do so. Does that sound right?
Excuse me for saying. Bible reading people created the free world. If it were not for that. You would neither be allowed to form Christian communities, probably not be allowed to own a home and definitely not be allowed to raise children. So if you consider those things you listed a Christian duty towards God. Then by default it is also your Christian duty maintain and expand the free world that is built on varying degree's of Bifocal principle.
Actually muslims have been credited with a lot that we should be thankful for such as
- Surgery. Around the year 1,000, the celebrated doctor Al Zahrawi published a 1,500 page illustrated encyclopedia of surgery that was used in Europe as a medical reference for the next 500 years. ...
- Coffee. ...
- Flying machine. ...
- University. ...
- Algebra. ...
- Optics. ...
- Music. ...
- Toothbrush.
- Crank (mechanical device)
- Hospitals
In fact Muhammad decreed Christians should be protected - check this out:
The
Ashtiname of Muhammad, also known as the Covenant or Testament (
Testamentum) of Muhammad (the Islamic Prophet), is a document which is a charter or writ ratified by the Islamic Prophet
Muhammad granting protection and other privileges to the followers of Jesus the Nazarene, given to the Christian monks of
Saint Catherine's Monastery. It is sealed with an imprint representing Muhammad's hand.
[1]
Ashtiname of Muhammad - Wikipedia
Christians had freedoms long before the great crusades, it was the lustful emperors and leaders that sent men to die in the crusades in their quest for power and glory that has likely led to christians being more persecuted over the centuries. The pain and suffering of the middle east can be traced back a long long way and we continue to make it worse.
I would worry about the UK.
You have Brexit and a serious immigration problem as you know if you live in London, the stabbing capital of the world.
I’m tired of the UK thinking it can tell us how to “fix” our problems, when your economy stinks and ours is soaring, with record low unemployment.
Stay out of our politics. You guys voted in globalist May and she took you for a ride. I hope Boris is good for you.
I love all our Christian brothers and sisters around the world, but it’s deflection against your own issues and we don’t need it.
Make the UK great Boris.
God bless you.
Britain is amazing because of the immigration - the romans bought people from all over the middle east, the vikings brought more, and so on. There's plenty of evidence that immigrants generate more tax that the average Brit
EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals
Generally immigrants come here to do skilled work - builders, plumbers, doctors, nurses, and so on. Our country is great because of the diversity. I love the fact I walk down my street and hear russian, french, german, italian and other accents.
We're also not the stabbing capital of the world you might want to check the crime stats here which show the US as far far worse:
How London's homicide rate stacks up against major US cities - CNN
It's more fake news that people like Trump like to highlight.
Sadly we now believe Trump is affecting the world which is why we're all so concerned, and of course, if you're not allowed to criticise your leader maybe biblically we are
Lastly I wanted to bring up a final point. I believe the desire to support Trump through churches is because you'll be able to change laws about LGBT and abortion. God tells us to love everyone no matter who they are, hate the sin, love the sinner. Is the church commanded therefore to be political and demand political change? The bible teaches us not to fear, not to worry about the world. Why are the American churches therefore spending so much energy on this fear of LGBT rights for example to drive the support for Trump because he's the worst best choice? Trump has bred that fear in the public, that is not Christian, and the church should not let itself be deceived to spread that fear. Am I wrong in that reasoning?
I'll leave that with you all, off to enjoy the gorgeous sunshine in London and I pray you all feel God's loving embrace this weekend wherever you are.