Christian churches supporting Trump

ChrisBirchLondon said:

So do you think 'most' churches are supporting him because of the desire to see those policies enacted?

I'll amend my language that he's allegedly creating an atmosphere that encourages unglodly behaviour. However if you look up to the president, are you not encouraged to think and act like him? Would you agree he acts in an ungodly way?

The thing is we're finding it hard to understand a christian's desire to see the political action at the cost of anything. When anything might allegedly be worse than the political action achieved? THat's our viewpoint of course and obviously not yours.

So how about discussing this logic - please bear with me.

- If the leaders placed in power are appointed by god, it means previous ones were too yes? If not how do you know if this one is put in place by god? If all leaders are put in place by god then the laws they enact are put in place by god so why oppose them? That includes laws on equality, abortion etc that you want Trump to change.

By arguing that you need Trump to change these rules you're saying that rules enacted by previously god appointed rules were wrong.

By following this logic would you agree it's entirely 'possible' that what Trump is doing might also be wrong?

We're talking logically here not about specific cases.

Click to expand...

The premise is ridiculous therefore it is not logical.

MercyandFaith said:

While I agree with this, I wish many Christians would realize that this applies when it's a leader they don't like, either. Some Christians say "Trump is God's chosen leader for America"
but somehow claim that Obama wasn't God's chosen leader for America during 2008-2016. (And ditto the other way around.)

If it applies one way, it applies both ways.

Click to expand...

It does apply both ways. This is how it goes, ---Sometimes GOD gives the people what they DESERVE, not whom GOD chose for them to bail them out. Sometimes God says.."this is what you want? okay -- here you go...but you won't like it.
Obama was raised up a leader by God's Sovereign will also.
His agenda woke up many evangelicals to pray for God's mercy & grace because they saw where the country was headed & then the whole world. Now enter Pres Trump who has also been the greatest ally of Israel that is by God's design, by my study of the Bible, no one touches Israel , the apple of God's eye until the time of the gentiles is over and the Trib starts and then Jacob's trouble.
I honestly believe that Donald Trump was the only guy solid enough to withstand all the Media bombardment, contempt & opposition. Criticism & slander does not sway him, it makes him more determined to continue his course. He sincerely wants to Make America Great Again and he loves Israel. Who gave him that agenda? I believe God did.
Obama wanted to strengthen the enemies of America, and to destroy America & Israel. God was not having it.

A Realist said:

It's the height of hypocrisy.

Evangelical Christians were quick to jump on the Judgemental Bandwagon concerning Bill Clinton's history of philandering (before he became president), yet when it comes to Trump, one of the typical answers is "that's his personal life, what business is that of mine."

Click to expand...

Bill Clinton opened the door to all the cultural rot we see going on in politics today. Before him. No one could be elected president if they got caught in some big lie. Nor an adulterer. But that door is open and now one has yet tried to close it and make the normal behavior the norm again. So that is a huge difference right there between Clinton and Trump. Trump's past would have kept him from ever being elected if it were not for Bill Clinton.

A good analogy would be: Adam's descendants are not as liable for tier sin as Adam was. This is besides the fact that there is an assumption that Trump is still philandering around. The last news I heard of philandering was before Trump accepted Christ about 8-10 years ago. Bill Clinton is still Bill Clinton.

SPF said:

No, I'm certainly not.

Yes. I think he's a bully, I think he is incredibly insecure and certainly is not loving in how he speaks. But, I personally don't consider him a Christian, and therefore I don't judge him for it at all.

America is a secular nation. As a Christian, I will vote for people who I think will continue to make the most positive changes, but I certainly don't expect any candidate to be a shining Christian light to the world.

Hillary supported abortion all the way up until birth. For me that was a big problem.

Click to expand...

Ever been to New York City or Boston? Unlike most of the rest of the country. It is the culturally accepted norm to be rude. They don't consider being rude being rude. That is who they are to the core and Trump has lived there all his life. Now granted a mature Christian would get somewhat weened off that cultural pheneominah. But it would take some time. Trump only accepted Christ around 8-10 years ago.

A Realist said:

It's the height of hypocrisy.

Evangelical Christians were quick to jump on the Judgemental Bandwagon concerning Bill Clinton's history of philandering (before he became president), yet when it comes to Trump, one of the typical answers is "that's his personal life, what business is that of mine."

Click to expand...

Bill marketed himself as a Christian, at least nominally so. And when Christians objected to him and the allegations against him, and particularly during that thing with Monica Lewinski, they were shouted down. We have all spent the last twenty years (at least) watching Christians be told by the left that they should separate their religious values from their vote.

In 2016, they finally listened. That's the worst anybody can really say. The left won the argument. Christians no longer insist that their candidates reflect their values. Instead, Christians want candidates who will actually follow their on policy.

Speaking of which...

brinny said:

As was mentioned previously in this thread, it's his "policies". It ALWAYS HAS been.

Click to expand...

This. So this.

brinny said:

One, in particular, is his stance on abortion. This is right in sync with what God abhors, which is the shedding of innocent blood. (It is written as one of the seven abominations that God abhors.)

Click to expand...

I went through a challenging period in 2014 and 2015. I told my priest that I wasn't comfortable identifying as a Republican anymore. Because the Ted Cruzes, George Ws, Mitt Romneys, Marco Rubios and Jeb! Bushes of the world have just ruined it for me. That whole "claim to protect the unborn but implement infinity tax cuts for zillionaires" bit, you know. Gotta keep the corporate welfare machine going!

But I wasn't too sure about then-candidate Trump either. Without missing a beat, my priest said that then-candidate Trump was pro-life, and authentically so. That alone justified voting for him. On top of that, Hillary was not pro-life. For him, it was a slam-dunk.

On the right-to-life issues, President Trump has yet to let me down. As you know, I'm not some big pro-life activist but a candidate being pro-abortion (even if they're perfect on everything else) is enough to eliminate my vote without question.

I will not vote for a pro-abortion candidate, period.

brinny said:

On another note, have you seen the many cities in this country that are, and have been, controlled by Democrats?

Hint: Rats and the diseases that are in those cities, including Typhoid Fever and the Bubonic Plague, as stated by Dr. Drew, that is already present in Los Angeles that is being ignored. (If you would like me to post info/a link, let me know.)

Click to expand...

It really is disgusting, yeah.

Tigger45 said:

Coming from a right leaning independent voter who doesn’t respect how Trump being a (self proclaimed Christian) and leader of such a wealthy and powerful country operates. Between a self serving submissive Republican party conjoined with a loyal to a fault following (especially because it has strong Christian numbers), I would just like to see a majority of the Republican congress call him out ‘preferably collectively’ which might create an atmosphere for more opponents with better morals and values to challenge him to represent the party.

Click to expand...

Trump is conservative Christians second wartime general. Reagan the first. We will take Patton with his dirty mouth over someone who speaks gently and does't want to stir up trouble.

Pedra said:

Oh well, I will not try to change your view but I disagree with you completely.
I know that the LORD God is sovereign and is WHO miraculously put Donald Trump in the White house in an answer to Christian prayer to hold back the evil for just a brief time longer, that is waiting to take over.

Click to expand...

I agree except for the part about a "brief time longer." That just false prophecy in the guise of pop culture end time prophecy teachings dribble. The nation will go the direction Christians let it go.

Psalm 22 27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the families of the nations shall worship before you.28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Isaiah 60: 3 And nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising. 4 Lift up your eyes all around, and see; they all gather together, they come to you; your sons shall come from afar, and your daughters shall be carried on the hip. 5 Then you shall see and be radiant; your heart shall thrill and exult, because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you, the wealth of the nations shall come to you. (ESV)

Isaiah 49:6 He says: “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel; I will make you as a light for the nations, that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.”...8 Thus said the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard you, and in a day of salvation have I helped you: and I will preserve you, and give you for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;

Isaiah 42:Behold my servant, (the messiah) whom I uphold; my elect, in whom my soul delights; I have put my spirit on him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment to truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.


Prophecies about the Messiah's invisible kingdom.
Coming to pass before our eyes.

Isaiah 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days,that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; The Lords house are believers of all nations. That is disputable NT doctrine. The mountains and hills represent kingdoms, nations, but especially, influences in the world.
and all nations shall flow to it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come you, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:
Where have people been going for the last 2000 years to find God, to be taught of his ways to walk in his paths? To Christians, the Bible or a church.
for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
The Word of the Lord came into the world through ancient Israel. Even so. Ancient Israel was a type and a shadow of the people of God of all nations to come; who are the New Jerusalem, the Zion of
the Lord. Through them, the Word of the Lord is spreading to the entire world.
2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
This is a prophecy given to ancient Israel. Who, because of God's dispensation of partial light to them relied heavily on the sword to spread or maintain the influence of God's invisible kingdom. When the messiah, the light of the world entered the scene. The heavy reliance on the sword to spread or maintain the influence of his
invisible kingdom came to an end. The sword and the spear were made into tools for farming. The farmer sows the Word of God into peoples hearts. Just as Jesus's parable about his invisible kingdom in Luke 8:4-15 teaches.
Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given: and the government shall be on his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Truly a staggering prophecy. Written 700 years before Jesus came. That God would become a man and be born as a child. Then, as it is today, Jesus is called all these things all over the world. As time goes on by more and more people.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from now on even for ever. The influence of his government has increased in the world from theday of Pentecost. Especially since the Bible started getting into the hands of the general public 500 years ago. To the degree his invisible government has been influencing people, cultures and nations is the degree that peace brought to the world. Just like to the degree that his government's growing influence is felt. Is the degree that justice grows along with judgment about what is right and wrong.

ByTheSpirit said:

Theres a huge difference between disagreeing with a persons politics and opposing those views, and downright being nasty and personal. You have already shown to be of the personal variety, as do most others.

You don't have to agree with Trumps policies, but calling him "Christless pig" is beyond anything God would approve of. Funny is, you are here trying to portray this image of superiority concerning morals and ethics:

How can anyone vote for such a (fill in the blank) all while being disgusting immoral and unethical in your view, remarks, and heart really.

Fix yourself first

Click to expand...

I've done little more than disagree with Trump's policies and demeanor. Unfortunately in the church today that is sufficient for a Trumpster to cry nasty and personal even while their boy makes everything nasty and personal. Further evidence that Trump is a massive judgment against the American church.

Pedra said:

He is a very successful businessman, a loyal nationalist and patriot and he stood against the elite globalist agenda. I have watched full speeches of Pres Trump and I've seen numerous times where the Media or celebrities have taken Trump's words out of context , & misrepresented him, but do they ever recant? --no never, never, never.

Click to expand...

I can barely sit through his Rush Limbaugh style stream of consciousness speeches. I agree the media has completely misrepresented any number of things about Trump. That doesn't excuse his behavior though nor does it excuse the church of blindly supporting hi .

Daniel Martinovich said:

Psalm 22 27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the families of the nations shall worship before you.28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.

Click to expand...

That is referring to after the trib, during Christ's millennial kingdom. But we should discuss bible prophecy in another thread though.

Just be the church. Why try to use the police power of government to control the lives of unregenerated mankind on this fallen world???

As the church, we should form Christian families, homes, and communities. The world will be the world. Sadly, we're trying to control them more than we are trying to serve them, love them, and convert them.

I fear that vile and wicked politicians have taken our faith and learned how to use it to manipulate us for our votes.

Pedra said:

That is referring to after the trib, during Christ's millennial kingdom. But we should discuss bible prophecy in another thread though.

Click to expand...

My point is how what you believe is effecting your vision for the future. If these last few generations are wrong about this subject. Then they abandoned a most critical Christian duty of founding and maintaining nations on Biblical principle. The wicked are very diabolically filling that vacuum. If I’m right. Christians and people that may not be Christians, but have accepted Biblical principle as the way we should run our affairs should be dominant in a nations politics. Not as a voter block but as politicians themselves. How else can they be the salt and light in that arena when they are the outliers not the norm?

Besides. In regards to that one scripture written at a time when part of the population of one nation worshiped the Lord. Maybe a couple million people. Now out of 2.5 billion who claim Christianity. At least a billion of them have to be real. That is an 8th or a 3rd of the population of the world. However you want to look at it. Nor is their a nation or tribe on earth that does not have real Christians among them. The phenomena is growing to. So don’t discount the power of the Gospel rightly understood for that scripture to be fulfilled. Not in a utopian way. But at least in a way that the wicked have to fake obedience just to do business in the culture.

ChrisBirchLondon said:

Im a British Christian involved in the Hillsong church here in London. I’m politically active because I don’t think you can be a Christian and not take part and highlight issues.

Seeing the evangelical church support Trump has been a constant painful experience as non Christian friends simply cannot comphrehend why Christians would support such an individual who is clearly not Christian.

Due to the influence of the us on the world and trumps policies which are damaging international issues such as climate change I feel we as a church should be doing what we can to question the leaders in the us who support trump and bring about change within our church.

I’d love to hear from Christians who support trump and what your bible based reasoning is, and those who feel action needs to be taken and how we can do that responsibly and with love. Criticising and telling church leaders they are wrong is a difficult concept but has its precedence in the New Testament when many churches went off the tracks.

We must live by the standards of Jesus. If you truly ask yourself if Jesus would act like Trump the answer can only be a clear no.

This is not a discussion to throw hatred but to find out what is driving Christian trump supporters and how we as a church can act to make change

Click to expand...

Any church that voices support for politics should not be listened to. The churches job is to help people live better lives spiritually through a relationship with Jesus Christ. It should not talk about it's political views or who ever political person they support. You are a church, be a church.. the government is outside of God's walls so leave it there.

Cis.jd said:

the government is outside of God's walls so leave it there.

Click to expand...

What are you talking about??? In relation to governmental/political power, St. Paul wrote that power comes from God.

St. Paul said:

1 Let every soul be subject to higher powers: for there is no power but from God: and those that are, are ordained of God.

2 Therefore he that resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God. And they that resist, purchase to themselves damnation.

3 For princes are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good: and thou shalt have praise from the same.

4 For he is God's minister to thee, for good. But if thou do that which is evil, fear: for he beareth not the sword in vain. For he is God's minister: an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evil.

5 Wherefore be subject of necessity, not only for wrath, but also for conscience' sake.
-- Romans 13:1-5 (DRA)

Click to expand...

So we should obey the authorities unless they command us to violate our own faith.

In particular, the American tradition is and has always been that religion has a place in public life and the government should largely stay out of religious matters; religion, by contrast, is not obligated to say out of political matters. That doesn't make getting involved with political matters a good idea. But it's hardly unusual in America's history.

All earthly governments are ordained of God. However, this doesn't mean that God endorses them or even supports them. He simply permits them to be to keep wickedness in check. Human governments are just fallen humans trying to govern other fallen humans. And earthly governments will always degenerate into tyranny. We should obey whatever laws are reasonable and for the common good, pay our taxes, and live peaceably with all men. However, when an earthly government passes laws that violate Christian faith, practice, or conviction... we should peacefully disobey.

Christ's Kingdom, our Kingdom, is not of this world. We do well not to become too entangled with it's political systems. They corrupt good manners. Our focus should be the Kingdom of God, the Body of Christ, the Church. We are strangers and pilgrims down here on this earth.

Albion said:

IF he were doing that, maybe so.

Click to expand...

Its interesting to me that most of what Trump is being accused other politicians get a free ride on. There s a history of various sins of the world in most politicians background. Turn a blind eye is popular or rose colored glasses, which ever fits. Clinton was close to impeachment but he is an angel now, right. And he did his nastiness while he was president, holy cow!
I applaud Trump for showing what we shouldn't be in our personal lives. I never want to be like him, tee hee

Have you thought about the future? For the last 20 years a million babies have been killed. Men are with men and women with women. Children are being indoctrinated into this kind of life and are seeking it. The thought of our children turning into this is more disturbing then anything I can think of. You have lost the children of the killed babies and the children of those who have chosen the same sex. That amounts to millions lost in the future. This is what the last 20 years have brought. Yes, we demand a change from this devastation.

Aquila0121 said:

Just be the church. Why try to use the police power of government to control the lives of unregenerated mankind on this fallen world???

As the church, we should form Christian families, homes, and communities. The world will be the world. Sadly, we're trying to control them more than we are trying to serve them, love them, and convert them.

I fear that vile and wicked politicians have taken our faith and learned how to use it to manipulate us for our votes.

Click to expand...

Excuse me for saying. Bible reading people created the free world. If it were not for that. You would neither be allowed to form Christian communities, probably not be allowed to own a home and definitely not be allowed to raise children. So if you consider those things you listed a Christian duty towards God. Then by default it is also your Christian duty maintain and expand the free world that is built on varying degree's of Bifocal principle.

Cis.jd said:

Any church that voices support for politics should not be listened to. The churches job is to help people live better lives spiritually through a relationship with Jesus Christ. It should not talk about it's political views or who ever political person they support. You are a church, be a church.. the government is outside of God's walls so leave it there.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the left would love to have it so. They will even let us care for some of the homeless to.

Aquila0121 said:

All earthly governments are ordained of God. However, this doesn't mean that God endorses them or even supports them. He simply permits them to be to keep wickedness in check. Human governments are just fallen humans trying to govern other fallen humans. And earthly governments will always degenerate into tyranny. We should obey whatever laws are reasonable and for the common good, pay our taxes, and live peaceably with all men. However, when an earthly government passes laws that violate Christian faith, practice, or conviction... we should peacefully disobey.

Christ's Kingdom, our Kingdom, is not of this world. We do well not to become too entangled with it's political systems. They corrupt good manners. Our focus should be the Kingdom of God, the Body of Christ, the Church. We are strangers and pilgrims down here on this earth.

Click to expand...

There are a hundred chapters of prophecy like this. One wonders why today's Christians as opposed to Christians a 150 years ago are so blind to them. This prophecy cannot happen unless Christians and Biblical principle are dominant influences in a nation. The exact reason it has happened to the degree that it has; is because of Christians and the zeal of the Lord of hosts preforming his promises.

A prophesy of the messiah's invisible kingdom that has been coming to pass before our eyes. Of course you have to measure its coming to pass in centuries not years or decades.

Give the king your judgments, O God, and your righteousness to the king's son. 2 He shall judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with judgment. 3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.
The mountains and hills are illustrations of nations bringing peace to Gods people because they are influenced by righteousness.
4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
The free world, that didn't even exist back then is growing and the despotic oppressive world has been shrinking.
5 They shall fear you as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
Back then one nation with a few million people fear the Lord. Today there have been dozens and 100's of millions of people.
6 He shall come down like rain on the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
Illustrating the Word and the Holy Spirit being poured out on the whole earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endures.
The righteous, the believers have been flourishing in the free world which is growing.
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river to the ends of the earth.
The influence of his invisible kingdom has been growing.
9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him ,
Prophesying about the area's of the world not yet influenced by his invisible kingdom.
; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
The end of all of those who have opposed and tried to stop the growth of the influnce of his kingdom, all have failed.
10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts. 11 Yes, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
Showing the progressive nature of the growth of his kingdom. First kings and kingdoms bowed before him. Then later nations when there were no kings.
12 For he shall deliver the needy when he cries; the poor also, and him that has no helper.
The eventual fruit of his influence on earth. Not an event but a process.
13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy. 14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
Showing that in the age of promise, our age. The poor and needy would be oppressed and murdered in despotic nations ruled by the wicked. God sees it, he takes note of it. He aims to end the bloodshed and oppression. First by setting the free from it spiritually , then later, when the circumstances are right, literally.
15 And he shall live,
Jesus lives, he is risen from the dead.
and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba:
Hundreds of millions give to him
prayer also shall be made for him continually;
millions pray daily for him, that his cause in the earth would be fulfilled.
and daily shall he be praised.
hundreds of millions praise him daily in song and worship,.
16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth on the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
A prophecy of the Word as a seed in the earth given to the prophets and apostles who were only a few. That the fruit of that would be his people, the New Jerusalem would flourish in free nations that have been influenced by Biblical principle and Gods invisible kingdom.
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.
Illustrating that it is the King who would be praised and worshiped and not his kingdom.
18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only does wondrous things.
David could see God's invisible kingdom was the source, the foundation, the reason for Ancient Israel existence and glory. The ignorant and the wicked cannot and think the glory of a nation influenced by God is of their own doing.
19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory;
David prays for the cause of Christ in the earth to be fulfilled.
Amen, and Amen. 20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.