One is not required to go to Disney World. I think it's more exploitative to use religious practice to take money from people than a place like Disney. Doesn't let Disney off the hook, mind you, but I think one is worse than the other.
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Jesus was violent one time in the Bible and it was against Capitalists
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One is not required to go to Disney World. I think it's more exploitative to use religious practice to take money from people than a place like Disney. Doesn't let Disney off the hook, mind you, but I think one is worse than the other.
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I didn’t say it wasn’t exploitative. I just said it was capitalist.
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I was a bit surprised by your answer, because it was much along the lines as one I was going to post and most of the posts I've read from you make you seem very skeptical (to the point of me thinking you were somewhere between atheism and agnosticism).
OK for my answer I would break Jesus "violence" down into 2 points
1) The merchandising violated the sacramental standards of Judaism. The temple was a sacred space, and how we treat the sacred liturgically speaking carries an indirect connotation for how we relate to God.
2) The money changer, area the outer court was suppose to set aside for the gentiles. So this activity was also a violation of hospitality to the foreigner etc. because they did not have a place to pray and meet etc.
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usexpat97
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Gollee, talk about the OP misrepresenting what Jesus really did. The moneychangers were standing in the Temple, between the people and God. You had to buy their sacrifices, at jacked up prices, in order to fulfill your obligation to God.
Anyone who stands between a well-meaning person and God and says, "You have to buy my things, that are specially blessed by God, at a big profit to me, or you can't be saved," certainly deserves a lot worse than their table getting overturned.
Anyone who stands between a well-meaning person and God and says, "You have to buy my things, that are specially blessed by God, at a big profit to me, or you can't be saved," certainly deserves a lot worse than their table getting overturned.
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Actually there were 4 courts outside of the temple ... yes I am aware of them ... and they were outside of the temple itself. And the temple structure had chambers that also were not considered part of the actual temple either.
People can do their own research on this ... but briefly...
Josephus, in describing the Herodian Temple of his own day (War V, 220-221) mentions the chambers surrounding the Temple. They had three stories and doors connecting them. He also indicates that these chambers did not surround the upper story of the Temple, which in his view was 40 cubits high. Again, in this account as well, he does not seem to allude to the outward slant of the chambers.
These same structures appear in the Temple plan of the Temple Scroll. Effectively, these structures were part of the same building as housed the Temple. However, since they were entered from the outside they were not considered to be part of the actual Temple.
all the verses I find say He entered the temple ... (doesn't say he entered the courtyard(s) of the temple)
Matthew 21:12-13
12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves.
13 And He said to them, “It is written, ‘MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER’; but you are making it a ROBBERS’ DEN.”
Mark 11:15-18
15 Then they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to drive out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves;
16 and He would not permit anyone to carry merchandise through the temple.
17 And He began to teach and say to them, “Is it not written, ‘ MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL THE NATIONS’? But you have made it a ROBBERS’ DEN.”
and yes another thing he took issue with was corruption of their business practices (den of thieves) ... and yes that does happen today ... but people choose how to run their business(s) ... either honestly or not .... and they are responsible for that ... it's not the capitalistic system that controls this .... it's THE PEOPLE running the businesses.
Any government system put in place will be corrupt because mankind is corrupt.
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Well, I'll leave it there. I don't believe the New Testament is accurate so that's the end of it.
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I would pray you would look into it .... so much of the OT is verified within it ... it's quite remarkable.
God Bless.
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What went on in the Temple and on Temple Mount was controlled by the High Priest and the Levite priesthood who were all Saduccees. There were no Pharisees among them. The Pharisees held the majority in the Sanhedrin which was judicial in nature.
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My OP wasn't meant to be an indictment against Capitalism per se, but against certain types of capitalism where greed overrules the Will of God. Perhaps a stretch, but I don't think so. But I am enjoying hearing everyone's thoughts and views. Maybe I'm going to learn something (maybe I already have!).It's about whether Jesus thought that capitalism is the only acceptable economic system, I think. And since those who believe that He did constitute a major faction on the American political scene...
Well, I'll admit it's a stretch.
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I believe that money changing and the sale of animals for sacrifice was permitted and legal in the Court of the Gentiles. The Temple had its own currency and the money changers took coinage from all over the Empire and converted it to Temple coinage which was then used for the sale of the sacrificial animals. All quite exploitative and very profitable and it also had nothing whatsoever to do with the Pharisees.
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The Pharisees were not involved. It is interesting that a great many Christians are quite uninformed about the Pharisees.
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Yet Mary of Magdala, one of Jesus' most devoted followers, raised sacrificial doves as a business.[/QUOTE]
She didn't raise the doves in the temple.
Commerce being conducted IN the temple was the problem.[/QUOTE]
Jesis said they had turned it into a den of thieves, not a house of merchants.
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Climate is warming, glaciers and ice caps are melting and the oceans are rising. I do hope that President Obama was wise enough to buy a property that was a few meters above sea level. He should be good for a few decades.
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She didn't raise the doves in the temple.
Commerce being conducted IN the temple was the problem.[/QUOTE]
Jesis said they had turned it into a den of thieves, not a house of merchants.[/QUOTE]
yes ... there were people conducting corrupt business practices as well and He took issue with that as well.
He was quoting Jeremiah 7:11
Two fold ... conducting business in the Lord house ... and people conducting corrupt business practices at that.
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