Who thinks Trump's claim to be the chosen one was sacrilegious

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Halbhh

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I still did, but some people around here always make up flimsy excuses why it doesn't apply to contemporary USA...

And we have recourses here without violating the spirit of our laws.
Does that mean you agree the Romans 13 verse you quoted above means:

1) Christians should pay taxes
2) Christians should not do armed rebellion
3) But Christians can rightfully use 'free speech' to point out the wrongful actions of governing authorities

?

See post #148 for details on the context of Romans 13, about the Jews under the foreign Roman conquerors, and the rebellion the Jews did, which resulted in Rome destroying Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

More:


The Romans Destroy the Temple
at Jerusalem, 70 AD

In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Roman masters. In response, the Emperor Nero dispatched an army under the generalship of Vespasian to restore order. By the year 68, resistance in the northern part of the province had been eradicated and the Romans turned their full attention to the subjugation of Jerusalem. That same year, the Emperor Nero died by his own hand, creating a power vacuum in Rome. In the resultant chaos, Vespasian was declared Emperor and returned to the Imperial City. It fell to his son, Titus, to lead the remaining army in the assault on Jerusalem.

jewishtemple1.jpg

Roman Centurian
The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism.

In victory, the Romans slaughtered thousands. Of those sparred from death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt, others were dispersed to arenas throughout the Empire to be butchered for the amusement of the public. The Temple's sacred relics were taken to Rome where they were displayed in celebration of the victory.

The Romans Destroy the Temple at Jerusalem, 70 AD
 
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FenderTL5

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You can see for yourself that he thanked Root, a rare conservative TV commentator, for saying nice and supportive things about him.

Political leaders write such 'thank yous' all the time. I have written to the White House before, and if you write about some issue you will most likely get back a thank you note without a direct up or down on whatever policy matter you might have talked up in your note.
You compare a private note of thanks with a mass, public, redistribution of the comment?
 
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Albion

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Narcissism and leadership have been widely studied, and there is some evidence that narcissists succeed in attaining leadership positions.

It's not saying that all people in leadership positions are narcissists.
It's not very surprising, is it? People who are go-getters and have confidence in their abilities are more likely to move up in business and political circles than people who are overly shy or doubt their abilities.

With the possible exception of George W. Bush, all of our presidents since Ford fit the bill.
 
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MournfulWatcher

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He has like 98% support in Israel.

Why can’t he quote a Tweet.

Israel worships the same God we do.
Because the only true king of Israel is our Lord. The tweet also said he is like the second coming of God. The fact that he tweeted the quote and said "wow!" after it shows he supports it. A president should never be publicly approving of that kind of talk, especially considering how he is most popular with the evangelicals!
 
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Albion

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Because the only true king of Israel is our Lord. The tweet also said he is like the second coming of God. The fact that he tweeted the quote and said "wow!" after it shows he supports it.
No, it doesn't.
 
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Sabertooth

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So you support Trump then. Nice :oldthumbsup:
Is that your take-away? I LIKE Trump, but I recognize POTUS, whether I like them or not. Are you going to remove Romans 13:1 from your Bible until you get a POTUS that you like...!? GLWT
 
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Sabertooth

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The fact that he tweeted the quote and said "wow!" after it shows he supports it.
I am reading that as sarcasm (and being autistic, it has to be pretty blatant for me to detect it ;)).
 
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ToBeLoved

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You compare a private note of thanks with a mass, public, redistribution of the comment?
He has the right to defend himself. Since the news is so bias and cuts video all the time out of context, I’m glad he Tweets.

Democrats have condoned violence. See Maxine Waters tweets and press conferences
 
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Halbhh

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Is that your take-away? I LIKE Trump, but I recognize POTUS, whether I like them or not. Are you going to remove Romans 13:1 from your Bible until you get a POTUS that you like...!? GLWT
Romans 13 means to pay taxes and not do armed rebellion.

It does not require Christians to say a governing leader is 'good' or 'right' etc. We can rightfully point out when they do wrongs.
 
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MournfulWatcher

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You can see for yourself that he thanked Root, a rare conservative TV commentator, for saying nice and supportive things about him.

Political leaders write such 'thank yous' all the time. I have written to the White House before, and if you write about some issue you will most likely get back a thank you note without a direct up or down on whatever policy matter you might have talked up in your note.
Did the tweet say "thank you"? Do you write to the White House saying the president is "like the second coming of God" and then have the president publicly tweeting your letter and declaring "wow"?

His arm must be sore from all that patting himself on the back.

Also the point of talking about whether you would defend Obama for doing the same things isn't meant to change the subject but is a thought experiment that's supposed to challenge people to think about why they're defending these comments. If it was a democratic president who did the same thing, would you defend it?
 
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Sabertooth

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Kalevalatar

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You have to admit it's hilarious comedy.. My husband and I laugh a lot. Trump is just plain funny...

Yes, he was funny... when he was still well and a professional reality TV personality in a reality TV show, where the business is all about of funny or die and ratings.

The office of the President of the United States of America -- emphasis: a president of the whole United States of America representing all Americans -- however, is not about being funny and is not a reality TV show with an endless competition for the best ratings. That the current President of the United States no longer has the mental faculty to distinguish between his former reality TV show and the highest office in the country -- and the honour and the responsibility of being elected into such a distinguished position that requires so much charcter and restraint -- and that some Americans are still intentionally feeding to his confusion is just disgusting. They are doing a great disservice not just to the poor Donald Trump and his family but to the United States of America.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Did the tweet say "thank you"? Do you write to the White House saying the president is "like the second coming of God" and then have the president publicly tweeting your letter and declaring "wow"?

His arm must be sore from all that patting himself on the back.

Also the point of talking about whether you would defend Obama for doing the same things isn't meant to change the subject but is a thought experiment that's supposed to challenge people to think about why they're defending these comments. If it was a democratic president who did the same thing, would you defend it?
Just because you disagree with a Tweet, doesn’t mean he’s a bad President.

Democrats tweets are just as crazy.
 
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RDKirk

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We all know that in scripture at times we see the governing authorities were directly opposed by prophets of God, governing authorities were disobeyed by the apostles, who preached in spite of it becoming illegal for them to do so. Probably we all agree, already, that man's laws cannot overrule God's laws, so let's dig down to precisely what is meant by this:

1Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

---------

Verse 6 helps some doesn't it?

So...one key thing Paul (and Peter) address: paying taxes. We know Christ said to also, to render to Caesar the taxes Caesar imposed on the conquered Israel.

Pay taxes to the nation that conquered yours.

Of course the Jews would rather not have!

But Christ's answer is very clear, and Paul affirms it again -- should taxes be paid to the Roman conquerors. Answer: yes.

This isn't a small thing.

If China invaded and conquered the U.S., and then imposed taxes on U.S. citizens as a kind of tribute for China, then you yourself should pay those taxes to the Chinese conquerors.

As a Christian, you'd personally be obligated to pay the taxes imposed (unfairly or not) by China, against Americans.

It's very clear, no matter what you'd prefer.

And, it's not only taxes.

Though it makes us uncomfortable, it's also that we are not to do armed rebellion -- the Christians were not to participate in the armed rebellion which was coming!! -- Jews would rebel, and fight against Rome, and Rome would then crush them in 70A.D.

Christians though were not to fight in the rebellion.

No matter how just it might seem to man's wisdom to fight against Rome, they were not to fight against Rome.

That's not really a comfortable message for American Christians, who might be proud of our own nation's actual armed rebellion against Britain.

Canada did not rebel, and...is Canada really worse off as a country for not having rebelled? It seems Canadians have freedoms, just like us, but they didn't have to rebel. They gained freedoms without rebelling.

But nowhere could Romans 13 be taken to mean that we cannot advocate one political candidate over another. We are simply to continue to pay taxes, and not do armed rebellion.

We "submit" to the government, but we don't have to break God's laws, nor do we have to call what is wrong a good. We can continue to tell the truth, and not endorse wrongful actions of government, but instead criticize those wrongful actions.

By emphasizing "armed" rebellion, do you mean that Christians can have a rebellious spirit and drag our heels and obstruct the government in every possible way short of an armed rebellion? I notice that Paul did not make the "armed" qualification...you did that.

1 Peter 2:13 goes so far as to say submit to the authority of the government. Being submissive means no rebellious spirit at all, armed or otherwise.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Yes, he was funny... when he was still well and a professional reality TV personality in a reality TV show, where the business is all about of funny or die and ratings.

The office of the President of the United States of America -- emphasis: a president of the whole United States of America representing all Americans -- however, is not about being funny and is not a reality TV show with an endless competition for the best ratings. That the current President of the United States no longer has the mental faculty to distinguish between his former reality TV show and the highest office in the country -- and the honour and the responsibility of being elected into such a distinguished position that requires so much charcter and restraint -- and that some Americans are still intentionally feeding to his confusion is just disgusting. They are doing a great disservice not just to the poor Donald Trump and his family but to the United States of America.
So what are your qualifications in evaluating his mental health?
 
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JacksBratt

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MournfulWatcher

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Just because you disagree with a Tweet, doesn’t mean he’s a bad President.

Democrats tweets are just as crazy.
I didn't say they weren't. In fact, I despise the rhetoric of the Democratic party. I also didn't say he is a bad president. I said his tweet is blasphemous.

Is it also appropriate for a Democratic president to tweet such quotes?
 
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