Penal substitution?

redleghunter said:

No it would not deny the Trinity.

In Jesus Christ, God the Son all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. That explains the Truly God and truly human Jesus Christ. Accomplished at the Incarnation right?

Then Jesus says this during the High Priestly Prayer:

John 17:

1When Jesus had spoken these things, He lifted up His eyes to heaven and said, “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son may glorify You. 2For You granted Him authority over all humanity, so that He may give eternal life to all those You have given Him. 3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent. 4I have glorified You on earth by accomplishing the work You gave Me to do. 5And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

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narnia59 said:

Calvin clearly believed that Christ suffered the experience of hell and to view that happened while he was on the cross and not afterwards is a 'trifling and ridiculous' objection. He stuck with the order of the creed -- he was crucified, died, buried and then descended into hell. And in section 9 he rejects other views of what 'descended into hell' would mean other than a literal time spent in hell.

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Davidnic said:

Well the problem is there can't be open debate I've Catholic teaching inside One Bread One Body.

Our brother has been very respectful and trying to not do that.

But at a point I think we hit a wall in the discussion where it becomes a debate.

A problem with moving it is anywhere you move it is going to come a flame fast with this topic.

but we might be it about the end of a give-and-take discussion. Everyone so far has been very respectful and I think presented their points. But we might be where it becomes a debate soon.

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redleghunter said:

Right Calvin is confirming the “descended into hell” from the Creed was not a literal visit to hell to be punished. There were such views from antiquity and he was dismissing such. That the penalty due us was accomplished on the Cross. Again “It is Finished.”

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redleghunter said:

Brother thank you for your wisdom and I will move on. I want to thank all for the discussion.

Last word to @narnia59 : I’m more a Tolkien fan.

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