How to get to Heaven

Aman777 · Aug 21, 2019

The IbanezerScrooge said:
I actually wonder if this is even an appropriate topic for this forum. Seems like a theological question.

But my answer is: Heaven and Hell are myths. There is no "there" to get to.

The 1st Heaven was totally destroyed in the flood. 2 Peter 3:6
The 2nd Heaven, the world of today, will be burned. 2 Peter 3:10
The 3rd Heaven is the object of the Creation and where God lives forever. 2 Corinthians 12:2

Only Christians go to the 3rd Heaven. Others are left in the present burning world, but many there will be, who freely choose this valley of the shadow of death.

Aman777 · Aug 21, 2019

JacksBratt said:
What is the 3rd heaven? Have you assured that you are getting to the 1st and 2nd? If so, how did you do that?

I'm intrigued because, to me, the salvation that Christ gives me gets me to paradise and when all is said and done, I will reside on the new earth and the new heaven will be on the new earth and all those who were saved by Christ will be there forever.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Adam's Heaven was made the 2nd Day Genesis 1:8 by God the Trinity.
The present Heaven was made the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 by Lord God the Son.
The third Heaven was also made the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 by Lord God the Son.

Amen and that requires that you have faith. My question is WHERE do you find the faith to believe in the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Mountainmanbob · Aug 21, 2019

Aman777 said:
Who do you pray to? and do you ask for a new heart?

The Big Guy in the sky.
M-Bob

JacksBratt · Aug 21, 2019

Aman777 said:
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

Adam's Heaven was made the 2nd Day Genesis 1:8 by God the Trinity.
The present Heaven was made the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 by Lord God the Son.
The third Heaven was also made the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 by Lord God the Son.

Amen and that requires that you have faith. My question is WHERE do you find the faith to believe in the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ?

Ok, thank you for clarifying that for me. You also, in post #61, state that it is where God lives forever.

Therefore, if we are going to be with God for eternity, this will be our new home too. It will also be the heaven that descends to the new earth.

So, you want to know how you get there. This should not be a difficult answer for any christian. We should know this like we know our own name.

You get there by accepting that you are a sinner, that your sins demand payment, that you cannot pay this by any act of yourself besides death... that Christ was not a sinner but paid for your sins on the cross. That Christ died and rose again. That Christ is offering you a pardon from all your sins if you humble yourself enough to accept your unworthiness, your sinfulness and ask for salvation from Him. To turn to Him and accept Him as your savior and strive to follow His teachings, examples and way of life.. to strive to be more like Him. To turn from your sinful ways and trust in His promise that this will bring you eternal life.

We don't get there by having a prideful heart, denying Christ, who He is and what He has done. We don't get there by any of our own actions, abilities or services.

We get there by believing in Christ.

Aman777 · Aug 22, 2019

JacksBratt said:
Ok, thank you for clarifying that for me. You also, in post #61, state that it is where God lives forever.

Therefore, if we are going to be with God for eternity, this will be our new home too. It will also be the heaven that descends to the new earth.

So, you want to know how you get there. This should not be a difficult answer for any christian. We should know this like we know our own name.

You get there by accepting that you are a sinner, that your sins demand payment, that you cannot pay this by any act of yourself besides death... that Christ was not a sinner but paid for your sins on the cross. That Christ died and rose again. That Christ is offering you a pardon from all your sins if you humble yourself enough to accept your unworthiness, your sinfulness and ask for salvation from Him. To turn to Him and accept Him as your savior and strive to follow His teachings, examples and way of life.. to strive to be more like Him. To turn from your sinful ways and trust in His promise that this will bring you eternal life.

We don't get there by having a prideful heart, denying Christ, who He is and what He has done. We don't get there by any of our own actions, abilities or services.

We get there by believing in Christ.

The point of this whole thread is to find out where we get the saving faith to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us:

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We receive the Gift of God, which is the faith to believe in the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace (unmerited reward) are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Pray for the Gift of God which is the Faith to believe that a man was raised from the dead. Jesus then prays (asks) the Father to send the Spirit into the new believer. Amen?

JacksBratt · Aug 22, 2019

Aman777 said:
The point of this whole thread is to find out where we get the saving faith to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus tells us:

Jhn 6:44 No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We receive the Gift of God, which is the faith to believe in the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace (unmerited reward) are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Pray for the Gift of God which is the Faith to believe that a man was raised from the dead. Jesus then prays (asks) the Father to send the Spirit into the new believer. Amen?

Actually, the OP was just "how do we get to the 3rd heaven" Which is why I had to clarify what was meant by the "3rd" heaven.

The OP said nothing about where we get the faith to do so.

charsan · Aug 22, 2019

Lost4words said:
Follow Jesus

and be Baptized too

Mountainmanbob · Aug 22, 2019

charsan said:
and be Baptized too

And if you do not understand repentance, might be a possible false conversion?
M-Bob

charsan · Aug 22, 2019

Probably on in evangelicalism.

Aman777 · Aug 23, 2019

JacksBratt said:
Actually, the OP was just "how do we get to the 3rd heaven" Which is why I had to clarify what was meant by the "3rd" heaven.

The OP said nothing about where we get the faith to do so.

That's important when you are speaking to a person who doesn't believe. Very few are telling unbelievers where to find the faith to believe. As Christians of the last days, we must tell others that our Universe will soon burn, 2Pet3:10 and that God tells us that He is preparing a place for us in the 3rd Heaven.

Aman777 · Aug 23, 2019

charsan said:
and be Baptized too

Amen. One must be immersed in the Spirit of Christ to enter the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Tit 3:6 Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Tit 3:7 That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

JacksBratt · Aug 23, 2019

charsan said:
and be Baptized too

Oh, like the thief on the cross?

charsan · Aug 23, 2019

Aman777 said:
Amen. One must be immersed in the Spirit of Christ to enter the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Tit 3:6 Which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; Tit 3:7 That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

I am not sure what you are talking about I am talking about water baptism

JacksBratt said:
Oh, like the thief on the cross?

Of course God can make exceptions but the norm even if evangelicals don't like it is to repent and be baptized. It is a shame that many evangelicals hate the Traditional Churches that follow the ancient Apostolic way and instead evangelicals make up their own ideas in their own image.

JacksBratt · Aug 23, 2019

charsan said:
I am not sure what you are talking about I am talking about water baptism

Of course God can make exceptions but the norm even if evangelicals don't like it is to repent and be baptized. It is a shame that many evangelicals hate the Traditional Churches that follow the ancient Apostolic way and instead evangelicals make up their own ideas in their own image.

In my opinion.... can't see God refusing someone salvation due to them not getting baptized....

If you believe on Christ's name... you "should" get baptized... it's a sign of your salvation, it's a public profession of faith... It's like the wedding ring on the finger... without it you're still married... but it is a public display of the fact that you are married.

I have heard all the arguments... but.... That is my take... Can't see someone living for Christ, believing on His name but condemned to hell for not being baptized... sorry.

And yes... I know people like that... I was one... Saved but not baptized until my 40's...

Aman777 · Aug 23, 2019

JacksBratt said:
In my opinion.... can't see God refusing someone salvation due to them not getting baptized....

If you believe on Christ's name... you "should" get baptized... it's a sign of your salvation, it's a public profession of faith... It's like the wedding ring on the finger... without it you're still married... but it is a public display of the fact that you are married.

I have heard all the arguments... but.... That is my take... Can't see someone living for Christ, believing on His name but condemned to hell for not being baptized... sorry.

And yes... I know people like that... I was one... Saved but not baptized until my 40's...

Many Churches teach that water baptism is an ordinance of the Church and it symbolizes joining that particular denomination. To me, it's a work of mortal man, and contradicts this verse which gives God the glory.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Also, IF mankind could have gone to Heaven by being circumcised, baptized or in ANY other way, Jesus would NOT have had to die. Would He?

charsan · Aug 23, 2019

JacksBratt said:
In my opinion.... can't see God refusing someone salvation due to them not getting baptized....

If you believe on Christ's name... you "should" get baptized... it's a sign of your salvation, it's a public profession of faith... It's like the wedding ring on the finger... without it you're still married... but it is a public display of the fact that you are married.

I have heard all the arguments... but.... That is my take... Can't see someone living for Christ, believing on His name but condemned to hell for not being baptized... sorry.

And yes... I know people like that... I was one... Saved but not baptized until my 40's...

Baptism is not just a symbol. If it was it would be stupid how some evangelicals get worked up about it for infants. No rather baptism is God giving his Grace to Christians and it is not an act of man but an act of God. Right in Acts St. Peter stated when asked how to be saved: Peter said “Each one of you must turn away from your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven; and you will receive God's gift, the Holy Spirit." without Baptism their (and our) sins would not be forgiven. Another place in Acts we find this: And now, why wait any longer? Get up and be baptized and have your sins washed away by praying to him.’ so we can see that Baptism is very important and without which sins are not forgiven. St. Peter further said: These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that Noah was building his boat. The few people in the boat—eight in all—were saved by the water, 21 which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you. It is not the washing off of bodily dirt, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ Baptism doesn't just wash or is a mere symbol bur saves us not through our efforts but those of Christ.

From the New Testament era to the Ancient Church all believed that Baptism was essential it was not until Zwingli that he abandon real Christianity that was followed by the Apostles and the Ancient Church for his own kind declaring everything symbolic and unfortunately many Protestants and evangelicals follow his lead today ignoring the Ancient Apostolic Church

Aman777 · Aug 24, 2019

charsan said:
Baptism is not just a symbol. If it was it would be stupid how some evangelicals get worked up about it for infants. No rather baptism is God giving his Grace to Christians and it is not an act of man but an act of God. Right in Acts St. Peter stated when asked how to be saved: Peter said “Each one of you must turn away from your sins and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, so that your sins will be forgiven; and you will receive God's gift, the Holy Spirit." without Baptism their (and our) sins would not be forgiven. Another place in Acts we find this: And now, why wait any longer? Get up and be baptized and have your sins washed away by praying to him.’ so we can see that Baptism is very important and without which sins are not forgiven. St. Peter further said: These were the spirits of those who had not obeyed God when he waited patiently during the days that Noah was building his boat. The few people in the boat—eight in all—were saved by the water, 21 which was a symbol pointing to baptism, which now saves you. It is not the washing off of bodily dirt, but the promise made to God from a good conscience. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ Baptism doesn't just wash or is a mere symbol bur saves us not through our efforts but those of Christ.

From the New Testament era to the Ancient Church all believed that Baptism was essential it was not until Zwingli that he abandon real Christianity that was followed by the Apostles and the Ancient Church for his own kind declaring everything symbolic and unfortunately many Protestants and evangelicals follow his lead today ignoring the Ancient Apostolic Church

It is the message given to the Hebrews. IOW it's the Old Testament teaching. It's a symbol of the New Testament teaching of being baptized Spiritually by being baptized or immersed in the Holy Spirit.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Some groups give God the glory for we are His workmanship. Eph 2:10

charsan · Aug 24, 2019

Of course you being an evangelical would reject the message and make your own. It has been happening since the late 1600's

Aman777 · Aug 24, 2019

charsan said:
Of course you being an evangelical would reject the message and make your own. It has been happening since the late 1600's

I prefer the term "Protestant". i find it more informative to read God's Holy Word than to listen to the words of ANY man, no matter what he calls himself. Can you tell us how to born again Spiritually?

charsan · Aug 24, 2019

Aman777 said:
I prefer the term "Protestant". i find it more informative to read God's Holy Word than to listen to the words of ANY man, no matter what he calls himself. Can you tell us how to born again Spiritually?

Protestants at least follow the old ways of Christ and Apostles, you evangelicals follow your own ways. The way to achieve the beginning journey of salvation is to repent and be baptized without which there is no forgiveness of sins.

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