why do USA politicians love environmental protection so much now? because

prosperity4all · Aug 19, 2019

Goonie · Aug 19, 2019

grasping the after wind · Aug 19, 2019

prosperity4all said:
why do USA politicians love environmental protection so much?

I hadn't noticed that they did.

Goonie · Aug 19, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
I hadn't noticed that they did.

Sadly.

ananda · Aug 19, 2019

prosperity4all said:
why do ~~USA~~ politicians love environmental protection so much?

IMO it's just the next big idea that those currently in power believe would motivate more spending among us peons, to jolt the economy back to a semblance of life for the short-term (at the expense of the long-term).

GoldenBoy89 · Aug 19, 2019

prosperity4all said:
why do USA politicians love environmental protection so much?

Do they? I haven’t noticed.

Goonie · Aug 19, 2019

ananda said:
IMO it's just the next big idea that those currently in power believe would motivate more spending among us peons, to jolt the economy back to a semblance of life for the short-term (at the expense of the long-term).

You don't have a long term without an environment.

ananda · Aug 19, 2019

Goonie said:
You don't have a long term without an environment.

I agree with that. I'm just pointing out how I believe this is just another "new" subject hyped up to stimulate the short-term economy.

grasping the after wind · Aug 19, 2019

Goonie said:
You don't have a long term without an environment.

You don't have a short term without one either. We aren't actually seriously equating proposals politicians claim would be good for the environment or stop climate change with solutions that would actually be effective in alleviating real environmental concerns are we? I am not sure what OP is suggesting with the comment about USA politicians.

grasping the after wind · Aug 19, 2019

ananda said:
I agree with that. I'm just pointing out how I believe this is just another "new" subject hyped up to stimulate the short-term economy.

I don't follow the train of reasoning. How would environmental protection rhetoric stimulate a short term uptick in the economy?

Goonie · Aug 19, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
You don't have a short term without one either. We aren't actually seriously equating proposals politicians claim would be good for the environment or stop climate change with solutions that would actually be effective in alleviating real environmental concerns are we? I am not sure what OP is suggesting with the comment about USA politicians.

Climate change is a real concern. Though I always look at the solutions with the words ‘beware of unintended consequences’ in mind. Look at the mess in regard to recycling where millions of tonnes of materials that people think are going to be recycled instead go to landfill or are burnt :doh:

.

In regard to plastic waste there needs to be measures taken to reduce it, minimum prices for plastic bags has demonstrably worked.

ananda · Aug 19, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
I don't follow the train of reasoning. How would environmental protection rhetoric stimulate a short term uptick in the economy?

Any rhetoric on any subject is an opportunity for government to enforce new laws and rules, because that is the main tool & purpose of government. New regulations force economic activity because they are usually accompanied by new bureaucratic apparatuses, regulators, inspectors, fees, taxes, penalties, paid licenses, along with a reprioritizing of the peoples' economic activity.

Tom 1 · Aug 19, 2019

I'm not sure exactly what trolling is but I think I know it when I see it, as they say.

grasping the after wind · Aug 19, 2019

Goonie said:
Climate change is a real concern. Though I always look at the solutions with the words ‘beware of unintended consequences’ in mind. Look at the mess in regard to recycling where millions of tonnes of materials that people think are going to be recycled instead go to landfill or are burnt.

In regard to plastic waste there needs to be measures taken to reduce it, minimum prices for plastic bags has demonstrably worked.

Yes there are real concerns about the changing climate. I only point out that the solutions proposed from political circles do not actually deal with those concerns. They do not stop climate change or even slow it down nor are there many reasonable proposals for dealing with the consequences of a changing climate. . Mainly the proposed political solutions just redistribute wealth and power while watching the climate change. I am unaware of minimum prices for plastic bags doing anything much in reducing plastic waste. Perhaps you could provide the information I lack? Certainly the problem of plastic waste is one that could be solved fairly easily as it has only one cause , that being human wastefulness and therefore is controllable. Unlike climate change that most likely must be worked around rather than controlled due to the multiplicity of causes, many of which are completely out of our control.

variant · Aug 19, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
Yes there are real concerns about the changing climate. I only point out that the solutions proposed from political circles do not actually deal with those concerns. They do not stop climate change or even slow it down nor are there many reasonable proposals for dealing with the consequences of a changing climate. . Mainly the proposed political solutions just redistribute wealth and power while watching the climate change. I am unaware of minimum prices for plastic bags doing anything much in reducing plastic waste. Perhaps you could provide the information I lack? Certainly the problem of plastic waste is one that could be solved fairly easily as it has only one cause , that being human wastefulness and therefore is controllable. Unlike climate change that most likely must be worked around rather than controlled due to the multiplicity of causes, many of which are completely out of our control.

If we really mess it up long term, the cost of remediation is going to be a lot more, both economically and politically.

Current politics isn't even beginning to address the problems, it's mostly window dressing.

grasping the after wind · Aug 19, 2019

ananda said:
Any rhetoric on any subject is an opportunity for government to enforce new laws and rules, because that is the main tool & purpose of government. New regulations force economic activity because they are usually accompanied by new bureaucratic apparatuses, regulators, inspectors, fees, taxes, penalties, paid licenses, along with a reprioritizing of the peoples' economic activity.

Those things you mention slow economic growth so if one is looking for a short term stimulus of the economy one removes them not imposes them. Increasing the cost of a good or service will decrease the demand for it not increase it. Increasing taxes will decrease the amount of money citizens have to spend, slowing down, not speeding up economic activity. If one wishes to increase economic activity the best way to achieve that is through innovation in the private sector. Find products and services that people were unaware that they wanted or needed in the past and economic activity will boom.

renniks · Aug 19, 2019

prosperity4all said:
why do USA politicians love environmental protection so much?

It's the next wave of hysteria, (the sky is falling, we are all going to die withing 12 years!) and makes it very easy to control people.

ananda · Aug 19, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
Those things you mention slow economic growth so if one is looking for a short term stimulus of the economy one removes them not imposes them. Increasing the cost of a good or service will decrease the demand for it not increase it. Increasing taxes will decrease the amount of money citizens have to spend, slowing down, not speeding up economic activity. If one wishes to increase economic activity the best way to achieve that is through innovation in the private sector. Find products and services that people were unaware that they wanted or needed in the past and economic activity will boom.

The government forces spending through taxation, especially on necessities, like food. This promotes short-term, short-sighted economic activity, especially if the People would rather save their money.

We are now a society built on consumerism, not built on savings (as it had been in the past). The "prosperity" seen after the 1940's were initially built upon the frugal savings of our generational forefathers. By the 1980's & 1990's, those savings were exhausted and that generation's way of life was perpetuated through a massive accumulation of gov't debt and the promotion of gov't benefit programs and the encouragement of consumption, planned obsolescence, etc., for the benefit of the existing generation in power, at the expense of future generations.

grasping the after wind · Aug 19, 2019

variant said:
If we really mess it up long term, the cost of remediation is going to be a lot more, both economically and politically.

Current politics isn't even beginning to address the problems, it's mostly window dressing.

I suspect it is less like window dressing and more like bait and switch. That would be the attitude behind the expression "never let a crisis go to waste." . Find something that people will agree is a problem then propose as a solution something you desire that does not in reality address that problem. Meet every objection to the proposed solution by claiming the critic is denying that the problem exists or has some reason for wanting the problem to continue to exist.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN · Aug 19, 2019

prosperity4all said:
why do USA politicians love environmental protection so much?

I dont think half of the politicians care enough .

why do USA politicians love environmental protection so much now? because

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