- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
It makes more sense if he wasn't talking to the pharisees and Sadducees too.
Upvote
0
Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today
- Thread starter Dave L
- Start date
-
- Tags
- speaking in tongues
- Status
- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,385
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Give us a date for the completion of the NT canon. (proves you wrong) The canon was selected collection of books, not a completed writing. The canon was voted on and assembled by the Catholic Church. Your theories don't work.
Development of the New Testament canon - Wikipedia
Upvote
0
- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Paul indicated the Book of Revelation would complete the canon and replace the gifts.
Upvote
0
- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,385
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
The main point here is that the baptism with the Spirit is available to everyone since Pentecost. And Jesus is the Baptizer, not the Apostles. There is nothing here to indicate that Apostles were needed, nor is there a limited time frame applied.
Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:15-16
The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Messiah. 16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Upvote
0
- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
John said Jesus will baptize "you", 2nd person plural = present audience.
Upvote
0
- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,385
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
He "indicated" NO SUCH THING. You have to connect a LOT of dots to make that claim.
Since Paul didn't SAY that, you have to write that he "indicated" it. A grasping at straws. I think I know what is coming next from you.
Upvote
0
- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
You cannot say something does not exist because you cannot grasp it.
Upvote
0
- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,385
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Peter extended that in the outpouring at Pentecost. To as many as the Lord would call.
Acts 2:38-39
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Upvote
0
- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,385
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I grasped it just fine. I tossed it in the trash as soon as I got my hands on it.
Upvote
0
- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
The promise = the gift, not the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. They are two different things.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
topher694
Go Turtle!
- Jan 29, 2019
- 3,828
- 3,038
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
You just keep ignoring your own logic, that is hypocritical. You need to prove that the only way the baptism of the Holy Spirit came was through an apostles hands or the two outpourings. Without scripture, you are adding to scripture your own ideas.
Besides, I have proven it, in another thread. You keep making this same silly claim all over the place, now it is my responsibility to make it easy for you to find?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,385
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
No. In Acts chapter two they are the same. When Peter explained to the onlookers what had happened in the outpouring, he called it the gift. He didn't use the term Baptism with the Holy Spirit for the outpouring. But we know that is what it was as prophesied by Jesus. Peter calls it the promise and then says the promise is the gift. Therefore the gift and the promise and the Baptism with the Spirit are all the same thing.
Acts 2:33, 38-39
33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear. ...
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Upvote
0
topher694
Go Turtle!
- Jan 29, 2019
- 3,828
- 3,038
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Nice sidestep, but it is not name calling it is an observation based on your own words in this thread. Stop acting that way and follow your own guidelines. Prove your claims with scripture.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Jul 2, 2018
- 18,580
- 11,385
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I'll have to agree with Dave on this one. You should not be calling him a hypocrite. That is name-calling. You can address behavior (as hypocritical) , but please don't call names. Thanks. - I love you both.
Upvote
0
- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
You are changing or limiting the definition by turning all into Apostles. The Baptism is part of Apostleship. Clearly all did not perform the works on an Apostle other than those they laid hands on.
Upvote
0
if the comparison is the Samaritan church then this language you are using is missing. the text says in Ch8 "When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus" I read the text and conclude they don't have the Holy Spirit, you read it and say they have something called the fullness of the Spirit but not the baptism of the Spirit. The text doesn't seem to establish a difference between the two. So what did the Eunuch have? if it's the same as the Samaritan church pre-laying on of hands he would seem to be without.
fast forward to ch 19 and we see believers with the baptism of repentance but without the Holy Spirit (they didn't even know of the HS). There's not a lot of examples in Acts but they are surprisingly complete and seem to disagree with your conclusions.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Mar 4, 2005
- 27,863
- 7,973
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
So then you should provide Scripture saying that the baptism of the Spirit was only for a limited time and a select few, and would cease after the Apostles died.
Without Scripture, you are adding Scripture to your own ideas.
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
