Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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DamianWarS

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Only the 12 received the baptism with the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Apart from the two outpourings only they could bestow it. It was part of the signs and wonders that confirmed apostleship. Philip was an evangelist who received the baptism through the apostle's hands. But he could not convey it to others. This is why the apostles visited the Samarians to baptize them in the Holy Spirit.
this still leaves the eunuch ill-equipped implicitly putting the Holy Spirit at fault since clearly the baptism event of the eunuch was under the direction and control of the Spirit. Philip couldn't even attempt to lay hands on him since he was whisked away so quickly.
 
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topher694

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Be sure to give me a credit line. - lol (just kidding)

In this age of instant communication we tend to forget what a big deal it was to write something in biblical times. They had to make paper or an animal skin to write on. Mix their own ink and cut a quill to write with. And if they couldn't write, hire a scribe who could.

After all that, you better have something important to say. "Where's the news?"
And you only write it once. After that, it's not news anymore.

This is why claims such as the Eunuch not having received the Holy Spirit is VERY unlikely, even though the text doesn't specify. That WASN'T the news in THAT story. I did say he went on his way rejoicing. (evidence) Just like the house of Cornelius. See below.

Acts 8:39
When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 10:45-47
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
I think understanding the historical setting, context and timing of the Bible enhances our understanding, especially with Acts. I've always been fascinated by such things. What you outlined adds another interesting layer to that.
 
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Steven Beck

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All believers have the Holy Spirit, faith is a fruit thereof. But the gifts of the Spirit were temporal signs of an Apostle. They ended with the Apostles.

It's a pity you keep banging on about this with zero scriptural proof.

Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is a promise of God

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

This is future continuous. Once it started (Acts 2) it doesn't stop.

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Same promise from Jesus himself.

In the Old Testament, the prophets prophesied and did miracles with the Holy Spirit temporarily resting on them. The New Testament has the Holy Spirit permanently in us. Why does Paul spend reams of paper explaining the gifts of the spirit. Read 1 Cor 12 & 14.

Why do we as Christians need power? Obvious really since Satan and his demons have power. It takes power to overcome power.

Why are you so against the Baptism Dave? Are you afraid of this power? I wouldn't blame you if you are. With power comes responsibility. Have you been hurt by Pentecostals, so have I, Charasmatics ? Yeah so have I. So what they are only flawed people and God is bigger than them. The bible is true and God's promises once given are forever until revoked.
 
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Dave L

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It's a pity you keep banging on about this with zero scriptural proof.

Being baptized in the Holy Spirit is a promise of God

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

This is future continuous. Once it started (Acts 2) it doesn't stop.

Luk 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Same promise from Jesus himself.

In the Old Testament, the prophets prophesied and did miracles with the Holy Spirit temporarily resting on them. The New Testament has the Holy Spirit permanently in us. Why does Paul spend reams of paper explaining the gifts of the spirit. Read 1 Cor 12 & 14.

Why do we as Christians need power? Obvious really since Satan and his demons have power. It takes power to overcome power.

Why are you so against the Baptism Dave? Are you afraid of this power? I wouldn't blame you if you are. With power comes responsibility. Have you been hurt by Pentecostals, so have I, Charasmatics ? Yeah so have I. So what they are only flawed people and God is bigger than them. The bible is true and God's promises once given are forever until revoked.
You are missing the details. Jesus promised the Baptism of the Holy Spirit to the 12 Apostles (one pending at the time) only. Start here, and get this straight then go to step 2.
 
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Dave L

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this still leaves the eunuch ill-equipped implicitly putting the Holy Spirit at fault since clearly the baptism event of the eunuch was under the direction and control of the Spirit. Philip couldn't even attempt to lay hands on him since he was whisked away so quickly.
The Eunuch was well equipped with the fullness of the Spirit that comes through repentance Acts 2:38. Those Baptized with the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues the words of the New Covenant until Scripture replaced them being the full revelation.
 
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Dave L

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Who was John addressing in this scripture? Only the twelve? (nope)

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:15-16
The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Messiah. 16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
John was speaking to those who would actually received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised it to the 12 (one pending at the time) only.
 
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Dave L

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Not so.

1 Corinthians 12:4
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. ...
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
But only through an Apostle's hands. Why did Paul want to visit the Romans to impart spiritual gifts if they came in any other way?
 
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Dave L

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I believe it is promised for all disciples of Jesus (“Christian”), because:

He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They said to him, "No, we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." He said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John's baptism." Paul said, "John indeed baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe in the one who would come after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke with other languages and prophesied.
Acts 19:2-6

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
Luke 11:13
But it ended with the Apostles. All believers have the Holy Spirit and receive the fullness through repentance (Acts 2:38). But the Baptism with speaking in tongues only provided partial knowledge. When the NT canon became complete, it replaced them with full revelation.
 
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Dave L

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Seems a shame that you are missing, and have missed, out on such an experience.
I spent many years in Pentecostalism and know your thoughts. But you do not have anything any other Christian does not have except for the confusion that comes from that persuasion.
 
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Dave L

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Then Paul and Peter are both false teachers since they both continued to preach gifts of the Holy Spirit and baptism of the Holy Spirit.
How do you reconcile this?
The gifts ended when John the last Apostle died. Actually, you can see them passing into history in Paul's later ministry in around 60 AD.
 
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Saint Steven

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this still leaves the eunuch ill-equipped implicitly putting the Holy Spirit at fault since clearly the baptism event of the eunuch was under the direction and control of the Spirit. Philip couldn't even attempt to lay hands on him since he was whisked away so quickly.
While I was reading the account of the eunuch this time I noticed something similar to Jesus baptism. Both passages mention the presentence of the Holy Spirit when they came up out of the water.

Acts 8:39
When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Mark 1:9-10
At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove.
 
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Saint Steven

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But only through an Apostle's hands. Why did Paul want to visit the Romans to impart spiritual gifts if they came in any other way?
That a curious response to 1Cor.12:4 (see below), which says the Spirit distributes the gifts. You are always asking for scriptures, but when we provide them you stick with your theories. Does the Spirit distribute the gifts or not?

And Paul wasn't saying the Romans were ungifted, just that he longed to be with them and to prophesy (impart) a spiritual gift (singular) over them. Just as the Elders (not Apostles) had done for Timothy.

1 Corinthians 12:4
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. ...
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

Romans 1:11-12
I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other’s faith.
 
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I spent many years in Pentecostalism and know your thoughts. But you do not have anything any other Christian does not have except for the confusion that comes from that persuasion.

How about personal experience?
Never been a Pentecostal.
 
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topher694

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If you have scripture, use it. Insults only prove your lack of self control in this discussion.
Hypocrite isn't an insult is an observation.

You admitted that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is in the Bible, I say it has not ceased, you say it has:
It is in the Bible, but ended with the Apostles.

You say it only came through outpourings or the apostles hands, I say it did not:
But Jesus only baptized the 12 with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Paul later.

You claim the following:
Ok, I say something does not exist. You say it does. You need to prove it does.

Shouldn't someone saying something exists prove it from scripture.

We are talking about proving claims from scripture.

So, I claim this things did not happen, you claim they did... according to your own works you need to prove it. But you avoid proving it while demanding other do so... hypocrite.
 
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Saint Steven

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John was speaking to those who would actually received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Jesus promised it to the 12 (one pending at the time) only.
Once again. Your theories don't agree with scripture. Who were "The People..." in Luke 3:15-16 to whom he answered THEM ALL? The YOU of those John was baptizing were the same YOU that would later receive the Baptism with the Spirit.

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:15-16
The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Messiah. 16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
 
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Dave L

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Hypocrite isn't an insult is an observation.

You admitted that the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is in the Bible, I say it has not ceased, you say it has:


You say it only came through outpourings or the apostles hands, I say it did not:


You claim the following:






So, I claim this things did not happen, you claim they did... according to your own works you need to prove it. But you avoid proving it while demanding other do so... hypocrite.
I can empathize with your frustration. But you need to provide scripture saying the Baptism with the Holy Spirit came in another way besides the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. Without scripture, you are adding to scripture your own ideas.
 
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