RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

mmksparbud · Aug 17, 2019

godhasmynumber said:
no ON YOUR BELIEFS of what scripture is saying.

It doesn't take much to understand--"the rest of the dead lived not until after the 1000 years." It's not hard to understand---
2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

It doesn't take a Phd to figure out:
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It's not rocket science to understand:
Mar 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

What kind of higher education must one have to understand:

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

What is vague about:
Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

godhasmynumber · Aug 17, 2019

as i have SAID you BELIEVE AS YOU YOU DO, tell me this will it only be SDA BELIEVERS saved????

mmksparbud · Aug 17, 2019

godhasmynumber said:
as i have SAID you BELIEVE AS YOU YOU DO, tell me this will it only be SDA BELIEVERS saved????

Pah-lease!! We believe no such foolish thing!!
Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

godhasmynumber · Aug 17, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Pah-lease!! We believe no such foolish thing!!
Joh_10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

that is good 2 hear then

PizzaAddict · Aug 18, 2019

godhasmynumber said:
Firstly i am a believer in the rapture just so that you all know, but believing in such an event and having an expectation of GOING UP and leaving this rotten sin infested world and my FLESH behind is a deep craving within me, and yet my heart still aches for all those that will be LEFT BEHIND that will suffer at the hands of THOSE IN THE WORLD and THE ANTICHRIST and HIS FALSE PROPHET. I desire to leave A LEGACY to THOSE left behind, especially THOSE that are LED here by God, A LEGACY of A SAFE PLACE to SURVIVE the great tribulation. ALL christians that do GO UP in the rapture will take NOTHING with them when THEY are TRANSFORMED from flesh to spirit, so WHY not LEAVE A LEGACY of SORTS for those left behind ESPECIALLY FAMILY and friends. such as BIBLES/ FOOD/WATER/ TRACTS/ or even A MAP of WHERE such THINGS can BE FOUND???? i am sure God must have placed such a dream or vision in THE HEARTS of other believers also????

Was thinking about it , but then most people who live in city will have their homes raided anyways if not by goverment then by bandits who look for food or simply thiefs .

FreeinChrist · Aug 20, 2019

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SavedByGrace3 · Aug 22, 2019

The first resurrection takes place on the last day, at the last trump.

Pilgrim Making Progress · Aug 22, 2019

If you study the parable of the wheat and the tares Matthew 13:24
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: 25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. 27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

It would appear that one school of thought is that the righteous are left behind and the wicked (tares) are removed in preparation for the Kingdom age on the earth (at the end of this present evil age). There is a great book also called "Left behind or Sincerely Taken".... remember there are many examples of overcomers who made it through tribulation.

Pilgrim Making Progress · Aug 22, 2019

Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 22, 2019

Michael Collum said:
Left behind is so 1990s. Leaving behind hidden caches of supplies and gospel related resources anyway like a time capsule is a good idea regardless of your theology.

Don't forget to make out a Rapture will and to put an escape hatch on the roof.............
[A fun thread here]

Just heard

from scratch said:
Today at lunch I was told the end of the world will be May 21, 2011.

What do you make of this hysteria promoted by Harold Camping? I was told it was all over the inter net. Apparently not because I had to make a second effort to find it. It is also being published in the Huffington Post. I see it hadn't made it to the Eschatology board. I don't have much respect for Harold Camping either. I think that it is promoting paranoia.

Hebrews 9:16 For where the a covenant/testament, death a necessity to be bringing of the covenanted-one/testator
17 For a covenant/testament upon dead-ones is confirmed, since not then is strength when is living the convenanted-one/testator.

A Rapture codicil for Last Will and Testament « Heaven Awaits

For a long time, I enjoyed thinking about the Rapture, and if it were true, and when it might happen, if true. But I had never put too much thought into what would happened to those left behind to people I cared about, if there was a rapture and I was in it.
So what I am doing now is updating my Last Will and Testament, and including a codicil to the Will which addresses the Rapture. Most wills being executed are based on a person's death, not their disappearance.
==============================

Isa 22:1
Here is a message about the Valley of Vision:
What is the reason that all of you go up to the rooftops?
Eze 33:27
“Say thus to them, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “As I live,
surely those who are in the ruins shall fall by the sword,
and the one who is in the open field I will give to the beasts to be devoured,
and those who are in the strongholds and caves shall die of the pestilence.
--------------
Mat 24:17
“Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.
Mat 24:40
“Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

Luk 17:31
“In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house,
let him not come down to take them away.
And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back.
Luk 17:36
“Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left.”[fn]
--------------------------------------

SavedByGrace3 · Aug 22, 2019

I can live and fellowship with both sides.
I do object to those few who state that you have to believe in the "rapture" in order to go up in it.
I do not see anything like that in scripture.

iamlamad · Aug 22, 2019

sdowney717 said:
There wont be anyone left behind, all Christians are saved.
Christ returning to the earth sends out His angels and gathers up His elect, then He rules and reigns with them at His second coming. There is no third coming, when Christ returns He returns, does not wait in the clouds for 7 years watching. See if you can find any scriptural support for a partial second coming!

How about if we don't forgive, then our Father won't forgive us? In other words, people harboring unforgiveness are not going to heaven.

iamlamad · Aug 22, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Read carefully---what happens to those that are taken away? In the parable of the men and women taken---the disciples have asked where are they taken? The answer is---

Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. Eagles are birds of prey and they eat carrion, also.

The ones that were taken away in the flood---were those that were not in the ark.

It is the taken that are the lost---not those left behind!

This is true of the parable of the tares. It is not true of the rapture. Once we are caught up, we certainly will be escorted to heaven.

iamlamad · Aug 22, 2019

charsan said:
How about neither a rapture or left behind stuff. That stuff is faker than a 2 dollar bill

It is scripture, my friend: scripture is not flaky!
And a 2 dollar bill IS REAL!

iamlamad · Aug 22, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Even the usual rapture passage is all about the second coming of Christ.
That coming of the Lord is the second coming, and the time of our being gathered. (which is the rapture), there is also the gathering up of the wicked. So 2 groups are gathered, no one is left behind anywhere. The time is the end of the age and the setting is the Lord's return.

1 Thessalonians 4
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

You find no pretrib rapture taught by Christ about the end times. There is only His returning with His saints.
Matthew 13:47-50 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Dragnet
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

Jesus says the eagles will gather to eat the bodies of the wicked dead at His return, they are slain by Him.
Matthew 24
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

So now here is more info on the same event in v27-28
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Thus is the gathering of all His saints in Heaven and on earth to join with Him at His return.

It seems you have escaped reality in three directions!
Note carefully: when Jesus comes pretrib FOR His bride, it will be the second (2nd) coming. When He comes 7 plus years later it is going to be His 3rd (third) coming. Both comings are scriptural. Forget preconceptions and just study 1 Thes. and Revelation. Note again, the great crowd - too large to number (ONLY the rapture will have such a crowd) is seen in Revelation 7, just before the 70th week begins.

And yes, billions will be left behind: all sinners will be left behind.
A few that are born again in in unconfessed sin will be left behind.

You find no pretrib rapture taught by Christ about the end times.
There is good reason. The Gentile church of which we are a part did not exist then. And the 70th week, the final 7 years, will be for DANIEL'S people, not the church. HOWEVER: Jesus did speak through Paul about the pretrib rapture.

A better translation would be:
for that Day will not come unless the very significant departing comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

When the church has departed via the rapture, then the one restraining or holding back will be "taken out of the way."

sdowney717 · Aug 22, 2019

iamlamad said:
How about if we don't forgive, then our Father won't forgive us? In other words, people harboring unforgiveness are not going to heaven.

That is a work of the flesh unforgiveness is hatred because LOVE keeps no record of wrongs. Paul said people who practice the works of the flesh will not inherit the kingdom. Such people are not spiritually minded which means death. We need to remember we were forgiven our old sins and Peter talks about how some people have forgotten this. But also those people are in the flesh and not in the Spirit so they are not born of God.

sdowney717 · Aug 22, 2019

iamlamad said:
It seems you have escaped reality in three directions!
Note carefully: when Jesus comes pretrib FOR His bride, it will be the second (2nd) coming. When He comes 7 plus years later it is going to be His 3rd (third) coming. Both comings are scriptural. Forget preconceptions and just study 1 Thes. and Revelation. Note again, the great crowd - too large to number (ONLY the rapture will have such a crowd) is seen in Revelation 7, just before the 70th week begins.

And yes, billions will be left behind: all sinners will be left behind.
A few that are born again in in unconfessed sin will be left behind.

You find no pretrib rapture taught by Christ about the end times.
There is good reason. The Gentile church of which we are a part did not exist then. And the 70th week, the final 7 years, will be for DANIEL'S people, not the church. HOWEVER: Jesus did speak through Paul about the pretrib rapture.

A better translation would be:
for that Day will not come unless the very significant departing comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

When the church has departed via the rapture, then the one restraining or holding back will be "taken out of the way."

Except that falling away is known as the Great Apostasy.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

And the restrainer is not the church, the word there is 'He' and He is not the Holy Spirit, the restrainer is the Archangel Michael, who in scripture in various places is in battle with the devil, So it is Michael and the holy angels under his command restraining the devil and his angels. Michael has been doing that for the ages, both in OT and NT.

Paul would have used Spirit or God or Holy Spirit if 'he' was that, so its not God directly restraining Satan .

charsan · Aug 22, 2019

iamlamad said:
It is scripture, my friend: scripture is not flaky!
And a 2 dollar bill IS REAL!

People are and there in no Scripture with Rapture in it and that stupid idea is manmade

sdowney717 · Aug 22, 2019

iamlamad said:
It seems you have escaped reality in three directions!
Note carefully: when Jesus comes pretrib FOR His bride, it will be the second (2nd) coming. When He comes 7 plus years later it is going to be His 3rd (third) coming. Both comings are scriptural. Forget preconceptions and just study 1 Thes. and Revelation. Note again, the great crowd - too large to number (ONLY the rapture will have such a crowd) is seen in Revelation 7, just before the 70th week begins.

And yes, billions will be left behind: all sinners will be left behind.
A few that are born again in in unconfessed sin will be left behind.

You find no pretrib rapture taught by Christ about the end times.
There is good reason. The Gentile church of which we are a part did not exist then. And the 70th week, the final 7 years, will be for DANIEL'S people, not the church. HOWEVER: Jesus did speak through Paul about the pretrib rapture.

A better translation would be:
for that Day will not come unless the very significant departing comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

When the church has departed via the rapture, then the one restraining or holding back will be "taken out of the way."

John 11 this is God telling us the resurrection occurs on the LAST DAY.
So these saints who had died who Jesus brings with Him, are resurrected together with those who remain, are changed into having immortal glorified bodies, and its on the last day, not 3.5 years before the last day. The we shall all be changed verse which people claim is the rapture is actually the resurrection to come, the Day of the Lord, the Last Day.

20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”

23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

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