Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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~Zao~

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Baptism of the Holy Spirit identifies us with Christ’s death as well as joining us to the body of Christ. So, good luck Dave. It seems your w/o either.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body - Jews or Greeks, slaves or free - and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

Romans 6:1-4
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.​
 
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Strong in Him

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It does say so. How? because it only mentions the Baptism with the gifts coming through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands.

That doesn't prove what you're saying; that's your interpretation of it.
Scripture does not say, "and when the 12 die there will be no need for baptism in, or gifts of, the Spirit, so they will cease." That is clear and direct teaching. It doesn't say that; that's the point.

I have come across many who say that tongues alone is evidence of baptism in the Spirit, as you seem to be saying; I don't believe that to be the case either. As I said, baptism means, or comes from a word that means "to immerse" - if God has poured his Spirit upon a person and into their heart, how can they not have been immersed in him?
 
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1213

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Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today...

I believe it is promised for all disciples of Jesus (“Christian”), because:

He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" They said to him, "No, we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit." He said, "Into what then were you baptized?" They said, "Into John's baptism." Paul said, "John indeed baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe in the one who would come after him, that is, in Jesus." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke with other languages and prophesied.
Acts 19:2-6

If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?
Luke 11:13
 
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~Zao~

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We could view the Father’s actions to His people in reading 1 Cor 13 but substitute 'the Father' instead of love. This is the treatment that He has limited Himself to in the world, working in our spirits to defeat the seed of satan. Those who are fit companions for the Son shine that same love thru also, becoming overcomers.


1 Corinthians 13
3 I may give away everything I have, and I may even give my body as an offering to be burned.
But I gain nothing if I do not have the Father.
4 The Father is patient and kind. The Father is not jealous, He does not brag, and He is not proud.
5 The Father is not rude, is not selfish, and does not get upset with others. The Father does not count up wrongs that have been done.
6 The Father takes no pleasure in evil but rejoices over the truth.
7 The Father patiently accepts all things. He always trusts, always hopes, and always endures.
8 The Father never ends.

There are gifts of prophecy, but they will be ended. There are gifts of speaking in different languages, but those gifts will stop. There is the gift of knowledge, but it will come to an end.

9 The reason is that our knowledge and our ability to prophesy are not perfect.
10 But when perfection comes, the things that are not perfect will end.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became mature, I stopped those childish ways.
12 It is the same with us. Now we see a dim reflection, as if we were looking into a mirror, but then we shall see clearly. Now I know only a part, but then I will know fully, as the Father has known me.

13 So these three things continue forever: faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these is love.


Faith= justification

Hope= sanctification

Love= glorification
 
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rockytopva

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The walk in the Spirit is the way of keeping the Christian in the right way....

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. - Galatians 5:16

The Azusa Street doctrine I would recommend for keeping up the walk in the Spirit....

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10).

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

And in William Seymours own handwriting....
306771_62d03db509627afb19b560ab363a28e3.jpg


But.... if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. - Galatians 5:15
 
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Monksailor

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In the OP Baptizing "in" and "with" and "of" the Holy Spirit are used interchangeably at times in the first few paragraphs and so it became totally confusing. I would appreciate this to be cleared up we know exactly what you are trying to say. A lot of the posts are probably just trying to discern what you are trying to say or taking advantage of the ambiguity to say anything that they want to. Regardless, I can't make sense out of the first few paragraphs/the foundation of your proposition due to the ambiguity using different and significant prepositions interchangeably between "baptizing" and "the Holy Spirit."
 
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SkyWriting

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If so, and since this commission was not only for the 12 apostles, then surely it was not only apostles who could baptize with the Holy Spirit.

Only God baptizes a persons Spirit. People sprinkle with water as a gesture.
 
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Saint Steven

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Thanks but.. hard to follow your logic. For me it happen exactly as it did in the Word. They asked if I wanted it.. I said yes.
That's a great point. To whoever asks.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”
 
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Saint Steven

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I'm confused? is Philip not an apostle too? what are you claiming here that Philip didn't lay his hands on the Eunuch to receive the HS so it never happened? If we are comparing it to the Samarians that Philip was also involved with then are you saying the Eunuch was left in a state similar to the pre-laying on of hands of the Samarians? Does this not leave him ill equipt? One thing that is clear about the Eunuch account is the Spirit was in control, so are you saying the Spirit didn't want the Eunuch to have the baptism of the HS?
Those are great comments.

I always ask, "Where's the news?"
If the Samarians had received the Spirit in the same way that the 3000 did at the end of Acts chapter two, would anything have been written about them? "Where's the news?"

The same is true of the Eunuch. "Where's the news?"
He probably received the Spirit just as the 3000 had. The text doesn't have to tell us what was a common occurrence at that point. "Where's the news?"
 
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topher694

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Those are great comments.

I always ask, "Where's the news?"
If the Samarians had received the Spirit in the same way that the 3000 did at the end of Acts chapter two, would anything have been written about them? "Where's the news?"

The same is true of the Eunuch. "Where's the news?"
He probably received the Spirit just as the 3000 had. The text doesn't have to tell us what was a common occurrence at that point. "Where's the news?"
I like that, "where's the news" I'm going to have to steal that. ;)
 
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Saint Steven

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So great a salvation that God would bear witness both by signs and wonders and manifold powers to set His seal on the preaching of the word. The existance of His church is His standing proof of His divine power. To neglect such a great salvation is to despise God Himself.

His bearing witness is by distributions of the Holy Spirit according to His own will. In signs, wonders and powers but especially by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. There is no fellowship with the Father but thru the Son and no fellowship with the Son and His salvation but with the Holy Spirit contained within. The Lord preached, the Father bore witness and the Holy Spirit comes in power to do the work.

The subject is the great salvation established in signs and wonders that none should neglect. The foundation is always Christ.
I like what you are saying.
The Apostle Paul used a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that their faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
 
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Saint Steven

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You would have to prove that the 2 outpourings are not apart from the apostles. Your claiming different things but linking them irrevocably.
He is making the Cessationist claim that the miracle gifts ended with the Apostles.
But what signals the end of outpourings? The Holy Spirit did not die.
 
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Saint Steven

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We can only go by what scripture says. We know that besides the two outpourings, only an Apostle could distribute the gifts. We have no mention of any other way = no faith possible in the matter without scripture.
Not so.

1 Corinthians 12:4
4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. ...
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.
 
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~Zao~

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I like what you are saying.
The Apostle Paul used a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that their faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

1 Corinthians 2:4-5
My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5 so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.
Romans 5:5
Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

1 Corinthians 2:11-12
For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Throughout the different church movements we have a history of the rise and fall of the Power of the Holy Spirit working in us. Religion has slowly choked Him completely out of our lives today and made Him to be nothing more than a history lesson.
But God foresaw the condition of the church and where it would end up and saved for Himself a remnant of believers who could rightly divide the Word of Truth and who obey all that He has given us. The Holy Spirit is a precious gift...and it is by His Spirit that we are able to test the spirits to know if they are of God or not. It is by the Spirit of Truth that we recognize the lies and deceit of the enemy. It is by His Spirit that we receive revelation knowledge of His Word.
It is by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that we cry out Abba Father.
 
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Heart2Soul

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Throughout the different church movements we have a history of the rise and fall of the Power of the Holy Spirit working in us. Religion has slowly choked Him completely out of our lives today and made Him to be nothing more than a history lesson.
But God foresaw the condition of the church and where it would end up and saved for Himself a remnant of believers who could rightly divide the Word of Truth and who obey all that He has given us. The Holy Spirit is a precious gift...and it is by His Spirit that we are able to test the spirits to know if they are of God or not. It is by the Spirit of Truth that we recognize the lies and deceit of the enemy. It is by His Spirit that we receive revelation knowledge of His Word.
It is by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that we cry out Abba Father.
 
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Saint Steven

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But Jesus only baptized the 12 with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. Paul later.
Who was John addressing in this scripture? Only the twelve? (nope)

Matthew 3:11
“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Luke 3:15-16
The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Messiah. 16 John answered them all, “I baptize you with water. But one who is more powerful than I will come, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
 
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Saint Steven

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I like that, "where's the news" I'm going to have to steal that. ;)
Be sure to give me a credit line. - lol (just kidding)

In this age of instant communication we tend to forget what a big deal it was to write something in biblical times. They had to make paper or an animal skin to write on. Mix their own ink and cut a quill to write with. And if they couldn't write, hire a scribe who could.

After all that, you better have something important to say. "Where's the news?"
And you only write it once. After that, it's not news anymore.

This is why claims such as the Eunuch not having received the Holy Spirit is VERY unlikely, even though the text doesn't specify. That WASN'T the news in THAT story. I did say he went on his way rejoicing. (evidence) Just like the house of Cornelius. See below.

Acts 8:39
When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.

Acts 10:45-47
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.”
 
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