The Sixth Seal
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Doug, would it bother you if the Vatican was destroyed? Would it bother you if the Temple Mount was turned into radioactive rubble? Would the destruction of these places interfere with your worship of God?
For some people, this would prevent them in their ability to 'connect' with God. People who are sealed don't need any physical place to worship God. We are the temple, not a place.
The 'locusts' are the 'people of the prince to come' (Daniel 9:26). They are (spiritually) 'destroying' the city and sanctuary. Destroying some people's ability to connect to God, but not those sealed.
Which city? Matt 24
15“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
They (the Judeans/ citizens of 'Jerusalem') are fleeing from the locusts.It will look like this: (but because you believe in a 'whisked away rapture', you misunderstand what is happening)
Rev 18
4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying,
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others,
and repay her double for her deeds;
mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
since in her heart she says,
‘I sit as a queen,
I am no widow,
and mourning I shall never see.’
8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
“Come out of her, my people,
lest you take part in her sins,
lest you share in her plagues;
5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven,
and God has remembered her iniquities.
6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others,
and repay her double for her deeds;
mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury,
so give her a like measure of torment and mourning,
since in her heart she says,
‘I sit as a queen,
I am no widow,
and mourning I shall never see.’
8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day,
death and mourning and famine,
and she will be burned up with fire;
for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”
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Douggg
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The online KJV I copy and paste from does not have "tribulations" plural.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Link:
OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE: AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)
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There's only 3 things you need to know about the 7 seals.
1. They are no literally 7 seals. 7 in scripture mean, complete.
2. The book that the seals are on, are the scriptures, so by extension, Jesus Christ.
3. The events that happen when the seals are removed, are within you. That doesn't mean they aren't going to happen outwardly, but that is irrelevant.
So it's like this. You come to Christ and try to learn about who he is, but you can't because you just can't understand what the scriptures are saying, because they are completely sealed to you. Then, he opens your understanding a bit (removes one seal) but that brings consequences. Opening the seals always brings catastrophe, but it's always within.
It is through Much tribulation, that we MUST enter into the kingdom of heaven.
1. They are no literally 7 seals. 7 in scripture mean, complete.
2. The book that the seals are on, are the scriptures, so by extension, Jesus Christ.
3. The events that happen when the seals are removed, are within you. That doesn't mean they aren't going to happen outwardly, but that is irrelevant.
So it's like this. You come to Christ and try to learn about who he is, but you can't because you just can't understand what the scriptures are saying, because they are completely sealed to you. Then, he opens your understanding a bit (removes one seal) but that brings consequences. Opening the seals always brings catastrophe, but it's always within.
It is through Much tribulation, that we MUST enter into the kingdom of heaven.
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I would say at the start of the Jewish Rebellion in the 1st century.......
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism
Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end<5056> is not yet.
7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 “All these are the beginning of sorrows.”
CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline
CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR
Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
==========================
Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]
Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
========================
Daniel 12:1 and Luke 21 same event?
Are Daniel 12:1 and Luke 21:23 same event?
- *
Yes
9 vote(s)
60.0% - No
4 vote(s)
26.7% - Maybe
2 vote(s)
13.3% - Never thought about it
0 vote(s)
0.0% - I don't know but am willing to learn
0 vote(s)
0.0% - Other [please explain]
0 vote(s)
0.0%
The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
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The singular word 'tribulation' can and in this instance; does mean a succession of disasters and judgments. Note; of those days....plural.
Namely, the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, preceded a few years earlier by the Sixth Seal Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
Nowhere in Revelation or Daniel is there any support for this idea.
The thing is Douggg; why would Jesus destroy the world He will come to reign over?
No, the great world changing devastation will happen about 11-12 years before the Return and will have recovered enough to enable the fulfilment of the rest of what must happen before the Millennium Kingdom.
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We find signs in the sun, moon, and stars, in Revelation chapter 6, just as we find them in the Olivet Discourse at the Second Coming of Christ.
Why are those at the end of Revelation 6 hiding from the wrath of the Lamb, if the Lamb is not present at that point in time?
We also find some of the same characters listed that are found later at the battle of Armageddon.
But if you need to insert 45 days to make your chart work, then we can all understand what you are attempting to accomplish.
Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Rev_19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
What a coincidence???
.
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Yes, seals at the beginning, trumpets in the middle and vials of wrath at the end. I consider other interpretations that have them shuffled together like cards make no sense to me.
The fourth seal rider is given power to kill 1/4 of the earth by various means, it's impossible this has ever happened bbased on simple math.
No, the Day of the Lord is the final defeat of the armies of the Antichrist and the kings of the east at Armageddon. He goes from there to the Mt of Olives where he touches down and enters the east gate. The is one road leading into Jerusalem, the way called Holinrss during the Millienial kingdom. This doesn't all happen in chapter 6, it's asinine and the most incompetant excuse for an exposition. But people think they can make escatolofy anything they want
Yea, it has always sounded like a nuclear exchange, with everyone in bunkers. They are cowering and say hide us from the wrath of the Lamb. That's because the martyrs slaughtered by the armies of the Antichrist are told again and again the will face the wrath of the Lamb and they think this is it.
As things calm down the Antichrist convinces them they can take the worst God can pour out on them. They do and will right up until the vials of wrath have passed and they are still standing. When it's over it ends in an instant.
Grace and peace,
Mark
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Agreed! People who like to shuffle or conflate the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls, for whatever reason, are plainly wrong as they are all separately described events.
However, more that a quarter of the world population HAVE died from war, famine and plagues.
Then the Fifth Seal obviously was opened by Jesus at His Ascension, as Stephen would have the first martyr to have his soul placed under the Altar in heaven. Followed by the millions murdered since and still ongoing.
There have been many Days when the Lord has taken action in His creation. Noah's flood was one. The Sixth Seal will be His terrible Day of fiery wrath, Joel 2:31.
The battle of the great Day of Almighty God; Armageddon; Revelation 16:14b, will be another.
That idea is impossible, firstly as it would pollute the holy Land, but mainly because nukes do not envelope the whole world, Zephaniah 3:8, and the sun, moon and sky signs do not relate to nukes.
An Explanation of the Sixth Seal:
Revelation 6:12-17;
I watched as the Lamb broke the Sixth Seal, – At this moment a Coronal Mass Ejection will explode out from the sun. Isaiah 30:26, Malachi 4:1, Zephaniah 3:8, Jeremiah 23:19 Triggered by the attack onto Israel, as per Psalms 83, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 50:1-3, 2 Peter 3:7
There was a violent earthquake – The microwave effect of the short wave spectrum penetrates the earth’s crust, triggering worldwide earthquakes. Haggai 2:6, Deuteronomy 32:22, Isaiah 26:18-20, Amos 8:8-9, Psalms 18:7
The sun turned black as a funeral pall – Acts 2:20 The approaching mass of the CME will obscure the sun. Joel 2:31, Amos 5:20
The moon became a red as blood – Joel 2:31 The superheated hydrogen plasma strikes the moon and causes a thermite reaction with the aluminum oxide moon dust. As well as: the bright red reflection of the initial flash. Isaiah 30:26a
The stars in the sky fell like ripe figs – All our satellites crash to earth and there may be a meteor shower. Isaiah 34:4, Isaiah 28:2
The sky vanished like a scroll being rolled up – Our magnetosphere and atmosphere facing the sun are pushed aside by this multi billion ton pressure wave of superheated hydrogen plasma. Jeremiah 30:23, Isaiah 34:4, 2 Peter 3:7 & 10, Isaiah 51:6
Every mountain and island moved from their place – Tectonic plate movement caused by the microwave effect. Deuteronomy 32:22, Jeremiah 4:23-24, Habakkuk 3:6, Isaiah 13:13 Also may cause a magnetic pole reversal.
Everyone from high to lowly hid themselves – every person on earth will be terrified by what is coming and they scramble for cover. Ezekiel 7:15-19, Zephaniah 1:3 & 11, Luke 21:25-26
They called out: Hide us from the wrath of the Lamb – People will dive for cover and most will survive, as they see this disaster approaching and have time to prepare a shelter. Isaiah 26:20-21 The main mass of a CME takes 24 - 36 hours to arrive on earth. Isaiah 2:19, Isaiah 28:21-22, Jeremiah 25:38, Luke 23:30
For the great Day of the Lord has come and who can stand? Deuteronomy 32:22, Ezekiel 7:7, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Joel 1:15.
This is the great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, prophesied over 100 times throughout the Bible, it is this terrible event that enables the establishment of a One World Government. But those who took heed of the warnings, took shelter and at the same time called to the Lord for protection, Acts 2:21, 1 Peter 1:5, Psalms 68:1-3, Joel 2:32 & 3:16 and will receive the great blessings the Lord has for His faithful Christian people.
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We have been through this before.
The thermite reaction requires pure Aluminum metal, instead of Aluminum Oxide.
Heating Aluminum Oxide does not magically produce pure Aluminum.
Aluminum is produced through the complex Hall–Héroult process.
Try again.
Christ returns "in flaming fire", as found in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.
It is a supernatural event, instead of one which can be explained by natural processes.
.
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Douggg
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Okay, you read as far as Revelation 19:18. What does Revelation 19:19 say?
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Read Revelation 16:13-16, to know what changed between Revelation 6:15 hiding in caves, to Revelation 19:19 to make them decide to make war on Jesus in Revelation 19:19.
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Douggg
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First, why don't you just admit that you were wrong? It is not "tribulations" in Matthew 24:29 KJV, but tribulation of those days.
The great tribulation contains all of the trumpets and all of the bowls. The tribulation of those days contains all of the trumpets and five of the bowls, because the sixth and seventh bowls of God's wrath in Revelation 16 follow the Sixth Seal, the Sign of the Son of man in heaven.
Which is why it doesn't say "after the great tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29.
I have already explained multiple times that the 1290 days in Daniel 12:11 point to the Matthew 24:30a the Sign of the Son of Man in heaven.
And the 1335 days in Daniel 12:11 point to the Matthew 24:30b the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of heaven in great glory and power.
The sixth seal is not about the destruction of the world. I don't think anyone here has said or implied that. You are the only one reading a "great world changing devastation" into the text of the sixth seal.
Go look at Bab2's post number 31 regarding Revelation 6:15 of the sixth seal and Revelation 19:18 at the coming of the Son of Man, comparing the wording identical in both passages. He got that part right. He did a nice job in noting the similarities.
And when he goes and reads Revelation 19:19 and Revelation 16:13-16, as I suggested to him in my post number 36, he will get the rest of it right as well - hopefully. You should do the same.
_____________________________________________________________
The sixth seal takes place. Then Revelation 16:13-16, the gathering of the armies at Armageddon, the sixth bowl. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by the coming of the Son of Man in the clouds of heaven in great power and glory in Revelation 19:11-21.
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Ok, I wish you would refreain from osting the actual text, and trust me, I lose patience with crooss referencing quickly. Your points seem to be up to a 1/4 of the earth has died from war, famine and plaque and a nuclear strike or exchange seem unlikely.
What it says is the 4th horseman kills 1/4 of mankind. Now the sky receeding like a scroll might not sound like a nuclear explosion, but I'd say it's a pretty apt description.
The Day of the Lord is Armegeddo where he desteoys all his enemies in an instant. That happens very late in the tribulation.
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The 2 witnesses [the Apostles [including Paul], their Disciples preached in 1st century Israel
before the Tribulations and Wrath fell on 70ad Jerusalem as shown in Revelation 18.....
Heb 1:7 And of the angels He says:
“Who makes His messengers spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.”
==========================
Mat 19:28
And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;
Luk 22:30
that ye may eat and may drink at my table, in my kingdom, and may sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.'
=================
And the biggest clue of the 2 witnesses in Revelation 11
And the biggest clue of the 2 witnesses in 1st century Revelation 11:
Acts 1:8
But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you,
and you will be My witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
In the spirit of Elijah and Moses. Do we really expect to see actual people with literal flames coming out of the mouths?
Revelation 11:
3 and I shall be giving My two Witnesses and they shall be prophesying a thousand, two hundred sixty days,having-been-about-cast/peri-beblhmenoi <4016> (5772) sackcloth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
=================
Fire also coming out of the mouths of these guys....any connection?
Rev 9:17
And thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions;
and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone.
Rev 9:18
By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths.
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You like to debunk possible explanations of what is prophesied to happen. What about a positive suggestion of your own to explain how the clearly stated prophecy of the moon shining brightly blood red can occur.
Isaiah 30:26, Joel 2:31 and Revelation 6:12 say that on the Lord's Day of wrath, the moon will shine red, as bright as the sun. How will this happen?
If it is not by being struck by superheated hydrogen plasma, ejected from the sun, as I believe, then you come up with a valid alternative.
That the Lord will instigate a Coronal mass Ejection of an unprecedented magnitude, is confirmed in Isaiah 30:26, Psalms 50:1-3 and Malachi 4:1
It will send out billions of tons of ejected plasma, which will literally fulfil all the graphically described prophesies about that terrible Day.
Another prophecy we disagree on.
Jesus does NOT Return in 'flaming fire; at all. He comes in glory, accompanied by the Angelic armies. He destroys the attacking armies by the Sword of His Word.
Supernatural? Why, when God has always used people or natural things like hail, earthquakes and water, as in Noah's flood.
No; a massive CME will do all the described things to fulfil the soon to happen Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath against the nations.
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