Our churches today are far removed from the early church!

nolidad

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Oooops, you forgot verse 10. I'm sure it was just an oversight.


Nope I did not forget verse 10 But we are not saved by works, we are saved for good works! But the good works do not save us nor do they keep us saved! They are simply acts of obedience by children. We are Gods Children byu the blood of Jesus and have become brand new creatures. The lack of a level of good works does not undo what god has done- it only makes us disobedient children.
 
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nolidad

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I highly recommend that y'all wake up
and realize that our churches today
are far removed from the early churches!
Far, far removed!

I don't think we are that far removed.

corinth struggled with carnality and schisms and liberalism

They had Ananias and sephira
Galatia was decieved by legalism and good works salvation

The church has struggled wit the same sins in every era. The only difference for today is we can commit them faster because of technoilogy!
 
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topher694

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Nope I did not forget verse 10 But we are not saved by works, we are saved for good works! But the good works do not save us nor do they keep us saved! They are simply acts of obedience by children. We are Gods Children byu the blood of Jesus and have become brand new creatures. The lack of a level of good works does not undo what god has done- it only makes us disobedient children.
Funny how worked up people get over this.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Funny how worked up people get over this.
A long time ago now, I did this study.

I noticed some parallels with church history and the histories of Israel.

For the reformation, the division between rehoboam and jeroboam spoke to me in a sense that the argument between the people and the king was about the amount of work that needed to be done.

And to this day, that is what the argument is about, work(s).
 
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Dave L

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It is so worrisome how legalism has gripped so much of the church!
Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. If they do, it's not the church.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. If they do, it's not the church.
Similar to the concept:

Jesus said the kingdom of God is like leaven that is spread throughout all the dough.

So if the kingdom gets leavened, it's not God's kingdom.
 
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topher694

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A long time ago now, I did this study.

I noticed some parallels with church history and the histories of Israel.

For the reformation, the division between rehoboam and jeroboam spoke to me in a sense that the argument between the people and the king was about the amount of work that needed to be done.

And to this day, that is what the argument is about, work(s).
Sounds like a very interesting study
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Sounds like a very interesting study
It was.

I'd recommend to start with Jesus as the fulfillment of Moses, and the 12 apostles as the fulfillment of the 12 tribe patriarchs, and look for allegories along the way. Such as when "they did what was right in their own eyes" popes for kings etc.
 
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BCsenior

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Sonja Craighead is warning that America is about to experience perilous times that will
be unlike anything we have ever seen before. If you are not familiar with Sonja Craighead
or her track record of prophetic accuracy, you can find her November 21, 2016, warning:
“A Warning from G-D to His American Remnant” on the Internet.

In 2019, extremely precise prophecies that she gave in 2017 were fulfilled in the exact
states where they were supposed to be fulfilled. So, considering her track record,
I would take this new warning very, very seriously…

2019 – G-d’s Summer of Change
To: G-d’s American Remnant
G-d began speaking to me in early June about 2019 being His Summer of Change.
I asked Him what that meant. He told me that a line had been crossed.
The hardness of heart of His people in America has reached a point where sin,
disobedience to His laws, His statutes, and His word, are preferred by even many
who claim to be His children, over repentance and obedience. During 2019’s summer,
America has entered the times of food shortages, and the beginning stage of famine
– without most people even understanding or realizing it.
… The next 2-3 years are going to be rough and tough for everyone. Seek G-d with
all of your heart on how to prepare and protect yourself and your family and those
that G-d puts into your care.
… Blessings to each of you. Pray, repent, prepare, and be obedient to G-d’s
laws and statutes. Do not be deceived by the lies that we are being told.
Do not be lulled asleep by fools who are blind to see the destruction
and judgments of G-d that are unfolding each day.
G-d’s wisdom and grace be over each of you and your families!
Sonja Craighead
 
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zoidar

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Blade

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Well... why delete all.. why you post.. what are you trying to do. Not here but.. your heart in what you post comes 2nd to mans ways.. forgot where I was posting.. didnt even read.. praise GOD glory to Jesus..

84 million Churches..hard to nail down your statement. Your sources I must question. The word is not ours to defend what we believe. The Shepherds Hermas.. you left out so much more to that. The fact there is no full manuscript and they range from 170AD to 599Ad and some of those they question as fake.

I don't know the prophet you quote.. or like. I have watched many of her videos.. things I question.. I need to take to her no you. But prophets do not tell people what to do anymore. The holy Spirit in them is the same in you and me.

Quoting The Shepherd as if its scripture. Its not authoritative nor scripture
 
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Bruce Leiter

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"The Shepherd of Hermas" (updated to modern language by Daniel Robison)

From the back cover
“The Shepherd of Hermas was one of the most popular books, if not the most popular book,
in the Christian church during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th centuries. Believed by the early Christians to have been the work of the Hermas referred to by the apostle Paul (in Romans 16:14), this book was regarded as inspired Scripture by many(1) and was even included in several of the early canons(2). At the very least, the historical and universal acclaim of this work by those who were still burning with the recent fire of Pentecost demands a serious consideration of the message it gives to us; a message that, after nearly 2000 years, still exhales the prophetic fragrance of the ancient, apostolic faith.”
(1) Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Origen
(2) the revered Codex Sinaiticus (one of the best Greek texts of the NT) includes “The Shepherd”

From pages 2 through 6

● “… the thoughts of a righteous man should be righteous. By thinking righteously his character is established in the heavens, and he find the Lord merciful to him in everything. But those who entertain wicked thoughts in their minds bring death and captivity on themselves, especially those who set their affections on this world and glory in their riches, and don’t look forward to the blessings of the life to come. Their regrets will be many, because they have lost all hope for themselves and their life.”

● “So do not stop reprimanding your sons, for I know that if they will repent
with all their heart, they will be enrolled in the Books of Life with the saints.”

● “… all things become plain to His elect so that He may bestow on them the blessings which he has promised them with much glory and joy, IF only they shall keep the commandments of God which they have received in great faith.”

● “… forgiveness will be granted to all the saints who have sinned even to the present day, IF they repent with all their heart and drive all doubts from their minds. For the Lord has sworn by His glory, concerning His elect, that if any one of them sins after a certain fixed day they will not be saved, for the repentance of the righteous has limits. The days of repentance are filled up to all the saints, but to the unbeliever repentance will be possible even to the last day. So tell those who preside over the Church to direct their ways in righteousness, that they may receive the promises in full and with great glory. Stand steadfast, you who work righteousness, and do not doubt, so that your journey may be with the holy angels.”

● “Yet you are saved because you did not depart from the living God, and because of your simplicity and great self-control. These have saved you, IF you remain steadfast, and they will save all who act in the same manner, walking in innocence and simplicity. Those who possess such virtues will grow strong against every form of wickedness and will remain unto eternal life. Blessed are all those who practice righteousness, for they will never be destroyed.”


Did you notice the 3 “IF” conditions? (The NT epistles have many “IF” conditions as well.)
Did you notice the 2 exhortations to “work righteousness” and “practice righteousness”?

Please note
Now, I have 3 confirming sources that strongly warn against
the popular false doctrines of today’s lukewarm Laodicean church
... OSAS, free-grace, grace-only, hyper-grace, easy-believism, etc.
● The New Testament
● God’s prophets and watchmen (of today)
● The Shepherd of Hermas

Note
A prophetess who really hears from Father God, Lois Vogel-Sharp,
says the Laodicean church of Revelation 3:14-22 were/are NOT saved.

I wish you would explain more thoroughly the doctrines you disagree with and why. That would create a better discussion. You are condemning the whole church, while a great number of Christians within those churches are genuine believers. Why do you say today's church is Laodicean? It was an actual church in Asia Minor that Jesus criticized a lot, but to make a blanket statement about today's church is not possible because many churches are still faithful to the Word of God. To include today's prophets and Hermas is not acceptable in my estimation.
 
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iLearn

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Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Workers of iniquities love those verses. For Peter had warned about distorting the teaching of Paul "His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
 
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nolidad

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I find it worrisome how some groups can become legalistic about not being legalistic.

Well I don't know how that works, but given the sordid imagination of mankind- I would not be surprised that there are folks out there like that! Sounds more like anarchy to me.
 
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nolidad

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Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church. If they do, it's not the church.

Well as the biblical church is not a denomination. I do nto worry about it. Also that passage does not mean that the church will be perfect in its doctrine nor that the biblical church will not have many problems. It does mean that the church will never be wiped off the earth. Hell is the grave to Jesus and the components of hell- Tartarus, the place of torment and Abrahams bosom (which is now emptied)
 
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Dave L

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Well as the biblical church is not a denomination. I do nto worry about it. Also that passage does not mean that the church will be perfect in its doctrine nor that the biblical church will not have many problems. It does mean that the church will never be wiped off the earth. Hell is the grave to Jesus and the components of hell- Tartarus, the place of torment and Abrahams bosom (which is now emptied)
Jesus' is the head of the Church and he doesn't fail.
 
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nolidad

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Jesus' is the head of the Church and he doesn't fail.

Agreed! But the church can and does fail. The church is comprised of sinners saved by grace who are being conformed day by day into the image of Jesus! But the grave cannot defeat us.
 
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Dave L

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Agreed! But the church can and does fail. The church is comprised of sinners saved by grace who are being conformed day by day into the image of Jesus! But the grave cannot defeat us.
“No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.” 1 John 3:9–10 (NASB95)
 
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