Marriage Ultimatum

Hello!

I need some prospective. Recently my gf told me that it’s marry her now or we’re done. I will try to hit the highlights.

I am a late 30’s, man, little brother, educated, never married, 2 boys, 8 & 13. Youngest lives part time with me. The oldest lives with me and doesn’t have a mom. I was baptized 3 years ago at her church. I say her church as I was heavily involved and loved it there. As soon as I left no one in the church has had time for me. I am still reaching out yet their only talking to me if something is wrong with a tithe or donation. I have checkered gypsy past prior to oldest son being born. Farm boy with a farm. Traveled for work and made a great living. Choose to move home in the country.

She is also late 30’s, educated, only child, divorced, no kids, recovering alcoholic, and extremely involved in church. City girl. Daddies girl. He still bails her out routinely and never lets her hear the end of it. 10+ years at same job. 10+ years managing depression and weight. Don’t take that wrong I absolutely love how she’s built but she has a skewed self image. Very active and athletic when she’s feeling good. Love her adventurous side. Great with church kids. Makes me laugh. Loves animals even more than me.

We have been dating 3.5 years. I purchased a wedding ring a little over 1.5years into it. I knew she was the one. Her father has not giving me his blessing multiple times. I finally told her about her dad not blessing our marriage and after several weeks of cooling down she said she didn’t care. It took me some time to come on board with that as I have lost my father and hoped to start with my father in laws blessing. I tried to plan the perfect unique way to ask her but she was never available. By that time she had plugged herself so much into the church there was no time for anything that I felt would be special enough for her. I will touch more on that in a bit.

The last 1.5 years We’ve been doing the long distance thing and it has taking its tole. At first being 6.5 hours apart. I worked 80+ hours a week and had to push it to be able to go see her and juggle time between boys. She only came to visit once, working a 40 hour a week job, in that time because of her church obligations. She did meet me a couple of times half way. A lot of the time when I would come see her we would go with the church camping, floating, roller skating, etc. which enjoyed. Speaking of seeing each other if Anything came up to change plans she would throw a fit. A very passive aggressive fit. For example as a surprise I got tickets to her favorite sporting event out of state. The week before more tickets became available and my oldest son could go. She was so butt hurt that our trip together could now involve him, she refused to go. Wanting us to completely cancel it. It hurt me a lot. But I’m glade we went ahead without her.

Rewind to when I first went back on the road away from her she was going to go with me and talked the talk but when it came time she didn’t. Then a couple weeks into it she began to pick fights over and over on the phone. Saying the most horrible things just to hurt me. That caused a huge rift to form but eventually we worked it out. She said it was because she was scared to leave her church and parents. Then saying that we could just get married any day. Any random day at church or court house. That we didn’t need an engagement.

I had been helping her a lot financially through the course of our relationship so she wouldn’t be dependent on her parents. Her father is very controlling and her mother is a functioning alcoholic. Getting her out of debt and making improvements to her home so she would be some what self sufficient.

My father raised me and he died when I was 16. My mother has always been around but is not involved unless she needs something.

We have also done mission work together. Being honest that has been some of my toughest times in our relationship. She wanted me all to her self and by her side. She has more mission experience than me. I am a large, well trained man, and usually only 2 men go on our mission trips. Not planned that way it just happens. These are abroad and in questionable areas. Having to bookend the group, being aware, and carry supplies, limited our time together. Our roles were way different but she didn’t see it that way. We worked on this to but haven’t gone on another since the last blow up.

Up until the ultimatum I was unaware of her having so much guilt over our sexual relationship. At the beginning of our relationship we fell to temptation. Mid way through we decided to stop and try to do it right. We did fail some. She told me how she recently apologized to everyone in the church for our sexual relationship.

She plugged herself into multiple church groups and functions. Being involved with the church at least 4 afternoons a week and all day Sunday. Most Saturdays to. When her church commitments got to the point they obviously came before us and the boys I confronted her. Don’t get me wrong I loved being plugged into the church to! But we always had time for all of us. Then there became no time for us. You can imagine where that conversation went. With our church family not being there for me it has driven me to this forum for help. I must note that at this time she works multiple bible studies. Not that it’s bad it’s 2-3 in different groups at church fallowed by another 2-3 on the Bible app at any given time. She may be able to but I couldn’t process that much. I remember when as an adult I found my thirst for the word! There was no bible app or small groups available . My bible, notebook, and me. I was lucky to find a Wednesday night service and Sunday couldn’t come fast enough no matter what town I was in. Thank goodness for all the good word the Christian radio stations put out. But even latter plugging in to the our church and attending men’s groups and other more specialized ministries it was hard for me to devote enough time to each lesson to fully process it.

Obviously it is a very touchy subject because we all have a different walk with Christ. And our walks are always changing. Hopefully growing us into better stronger Christians. Just like being hit with the ultimatum I initial withdrew because my love and motives where questioned. When ones walk is questioned the same thing usually happens. And in her case the how dare you’s and accusations began. That is another reason I’ve sought out advice on this site. The strong Christians I knew are not there for me. The worldly acquaintances I still have are not the type I want to solicit for advice. On her end she only has 2 friends and they rotate. One is very plugged into the church but lives a questionable lifestyle. The other is very plugged into another church but lives a party lifestyle. Both of which she will get into fights with and they will not be friends. When that happens she goes to the other. When the fight happens with the other she goes back to the first one in a big cycle.

I also need to note that my grandmother is 91 and goes to a Methodist church when able. One she attended her whole life and even went 10 years without missing a Sunday. She refuses to go to this church. Stating that her beliefs are nondenominational and she will only go to those church’s. Which I’m perfectly ok with as I prefer nondenominational church’s. But when my grandmother feels up to going and I’m able I want to go with her. On those same notes my Immigrant grandfather helped build a Russian Orthodox Church that’s on the historical registry. One that my family and older brother attended until it closed. Very rarely do they hold events there to help maintain it. She went with me to one dinner and refuses to go back. Saying it is against her nondenominational beliefs to be in a church like that.

I can’t help but feel that with my recent job change and having no extra income and having to sell almost all my assets to be with both my boys daily has a lot to do with it to. As I am no longer able to provide the extras for her. She even tried to give back a lot of the gifts I had giving her after the ultimatum. Or maybe she’s still scarred of leaving the church and her folks and saw me moving home as a threat to that?

We have also endured the preteen jerk phase and teen phase together. My youngest adores her. This ultimatum happened right after church camp. My oldest stayed with her several days and then she took him to camp. I picked him up from camp and we went to her house and waited for her to finish work. Planning to stay a long weekend together and after church we would go home. She was in a funk and I asked her what was wrong. So we talked.

This talk was more about her telling me again how bad her previous marriage was and how much abuse she went through but still stayed through it and how us not being married is terrible and that it is to much for her to bare unless we were at least engaged. On a side note she had told me about how she purposed to a long term boyfriend at one point. Anyways And that she would love for us to stay the weekend but not with her unless we got engaged. That she wants to be married and she’s ok if I’m not ready she just won’t be with me anymore until I am. She also expressed how much she loved my boys and hoped and prayed that she wasn’t doing this to soon before my oldest wanted her to be his mom again. So my oldest before puberty wanted her to be his mom. Then it hit and he became a preteen jerk lol Anyway I tried to express myself and ask questions and she got angry and combative. Every argument we’ve had began that way. She talks then I talk, she then says that there’s no way I should feel that way and demands examples. Putting me on the spot in a loose loose situation. I try to talk it through she yells and has to assign blame. Every little little argument has to have blamed assigned by her. Which leads to the sarcasm and passive aggressiveness. I try to walk off to cool off because Fighting like this never helps. Earlier in our relationship she even said she doesn’t know how to be in a relationship without fighting. So she yells some more then I yell and she flips out telling me not to yell. Typing that sounds so silly but I’m afraid we’ve had it happen many times. And frankly the lack of intimate communication or listening has been a huge hang up in me popping the question. I thrive on openness and acceptance and just plain ol’ love. There’s no need to beat each other up emotionally. She tells everyone how I’m her best friend and how she’s loves having me as her best friend yet she is not accepting of all of me. I listen to her always and sincerely. However she doesn’t listen to me. I’ve lived a pretty colorful life and when I tell a story with relevance she dismisses it. When I talk about how I feel she dismisses my feelings. Almost always leading into a fight like above.

Another thing that bothers her is how I’m always planning for us and the future. Involving her to help make the best decisions for us. She gets upset and says we’re just dating and not married. That she feels the planning is a waste of time with us not being married yet. But all she talks about is being married. Her on the other hand has never once made preparations for marriage that she shared or showed me other than telling me she wants to be. Maybe that’s my fault. Maybe I shouldn't include her in my life like that until we’re at least Engaged.

Anyway back to the ultimatum day I decided my son and I were going home. Our talk was away from him. She cried and cried and didn’t want me to leave. I told my son we had to leave because I wanted to see my youngest sons baseball game. Which he did have one late the coming Sunday. She txt me the entire 4 hour drive. Saying how she was balling on the floor and how not being married made her feel worthless that there’s something wrong with her. I wanted to comfort her but didn’t know how after the bomb she dropped on me.

The very next day while fixing lunch together my oldest wanted to talk. My 13 year old took me to the living room and sat me down to tell me he wanted her to be his mom. I thanked him and went out side and lost it. He has no idea what happened the day before.

Since then her uncle died and I’ve tried to reach out to her and she is not being receptive. She has an extremely hard time with death. Her world shakes when anyone that she might know has a family or friend pass away. It rocks her for weeks. Yet she will not go to a funeral or wake because there that far removed from her. Only going to her coworkers sons funeral and asking me to not go because she wanted to do it with just her coworkers. I obliged but it left a strange taste in my mouth.

I have reached out a little. Over her uncle and praying for her. I’ve also shared about the boys first days back at school and their new sports seasons and she is very cold. I just don’t feel like I should be the one chasing her at this time. Seems like it’s just a combination of all the things.

I have a feeling her depression has kicked in overdrive. After leaving her abusive husband around 8 years ago she got on antidepressants. Since then shes gained a lot of weight and stayed on the same original dose. I have suggested she go back to her doctor and possibly up the dose as her body might’ve built a tolerance and she is considerably bigger than when prescribed the original dose. That was not an easy conversation. A little over a year ago I discovered my thyroid wasn’t working and got on thyroid medication. I suggested she go and have blood work done at a hormone clinic to. She agreed but then would only go to her general practitioner. :/ And has yet to go back to the doc that prescribed antidepressants.

The kicker in all this is I’ve only been home about 3 months. I’ve been at my new job almost a month and a half. And the ultimatum happened 3 weeks ago.

The ultimatum on top of living and lifestyle changes with finances being extremely tight and my church family not having time for me has me at a loss. I can say that these last couple weeks have been some of the worst in my life. If it wasn’t for my relationship with Jesus these would be. Being back home and a family man who doesn’t smoke or drink or go out limits my acquaintances and I’m ok with that. I still help everyone I can thats in need. Being a Christian man limits who’s advice I solicit. The last 1.5 years were riddled with family emergencies that wiped out my savings completely. Even with a good job being home my finances are not just bleeding out but hemorrhaging. I have everything but the house and land for sale. I watched my mother use my father and then leave over similar financial circumstances. This ultimatum coming at such a difficult time for me brings back bitter memories.

I am stressed and at a loss of what to do. Of who to talk to. I’ve been continuing in prayer but it is getting very hard. Maintaining face for the kids. Fighting the good fight. I am trying to stay looking up but am in a tail spin on the inside.

I know I’ve highlighted mostly bad but there is a lot of good. I just can’t help but think you marry the person not the persons potential. There has been enough red flags and chance circumstances for our marriage not to happen yet.

Any advice is greatly appreciated. For those that read the entire post thank you so much for carrying for a stranger.

Elliewaves said:

Ultimatums are rarely good or loving in relationships. There are a lot of issues on her end and your end. If you want to try to move towards marriage and see if it could work, go to couples counseling. Actually see if you can work through some of this with her. Or tell her to consider marriage then she needs to get herself checked out with a doctor, go to counseling with you, and be at her healthest mindset; for herself, you, and your kids. She doesn't need to be telling anyone at church how sorry she was for having sex with you, without your consent- honestly that is manipulative- you are now the bad guy in the eyes of the church goers. You both have been living emotionally as though you were already engaged or certain you would be married; that can be dangerous and painful as you can see, especially with kids involved. If you no longer want to be with her; it needs to be a clean break- delete her number, no calls, no texts, no checking up on her. don't let your kids go stay with her. Join a mens group and ask them to keep you accountable in not contacting her.

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That makes a lot of sense. Making me out to be the bad guy in the relationship gives her an out in their eyes. A long time ago I realized that religion and the church are not God. They are people, just like all of us, trying to do what’s right for our Lord. That there are good and bad ones in all capacities. It is not for us to judge it is for us to love and forgive.

Your right I was trying to live like we were already married. To me I thought it was the natural progression of our relationship. The best way to build the relationship with the boys. I kept them separate from our relationship until I knew I wanted to marry her. I had watched the pain caused to my oldest son by a failed relationship. It still is one of the most heartbreaking experiences I have ever endured. And here I am on the verge of it again.

Yes we both have issues. I struggle with not being the provider that I feel she deserves at this moment. Being home allows me to be the dad I am supposed to be again. I worry about making it all work. That am I really good enough for her if she has to struggle with me. With the boys. As my wife. As their mother. For me I can see her harboring resentment leaving the church she’s plugged into to. I have worried about that since the beginning. From our conversation and her actions. The only time her words every spoke about starting our lives together away from it is when something bad happened at her work, with her parents, or with her friends. Of course I would quietly question the sincerity of it.

Before I left for work I wanted to start pre marriage classes with our pastor. That never happened. One talk separately with him and we kinda fell through the cracks of the church expansion and groups. I even suggested we look into consoling by phone. I can’t even remember where that one ended. Before the hard times, when things where great we did dedicate ourselves to doing the love dare book. It was fun and enjoyable. I really enjoyed our talks. We had almost finished we our relationship became long distance. I still carry the love dare with me everywhere I go, unfinished. We also did a love tank workshop. That was very interesting. The distance and lack of physical relationship definitely left our main tanks empty.

My heart is saying run to her, comfort her. Be the best man you can be for her. Yet I’m staying away. The way it all went down. Her timing. The ultimatum in general. Her cold ness afterwards. My gut tells me that she’s unsure about her own feelings and defaulting to me. But for me if I chase after her it takes away the special meaning of asking her to be my wife. I feel wronged by her actions.

I could swallow my pride and show her how much she’s worth to me. It doesn’t feel right with out something giving on her end. Not to discredit what she’s feeling. I know I’m emotionally and physically exhausted on my end. It seems like the kicks keep landing and life’s pulling my focus in a million different directions.

For everyone else that responded I will write my thoughts on your comments to.

LaBèlla said:

I’m sorry to hear you’re hurting. I’ve befriended many men in your situation; Christians and unbelievers. I was also a single parent. I didn’t date men with children. But I wanted to acknowledge this upfront.

It is best to address the elephant in the room. The absence of children on her end is telling. Barring physical complications or extreme situations you must honestly consider if she wants to be a parent. I’m not dismissing the abuse. However, children are conceived in unpleasant circumstances.

Sometimes a man is won over by a woman’s character but fails to consider this truth. This is a package deal and there should be evidence of her receptivity and welcoming of all parties.

God isn’t the author of confusion. He wouldn’t lead you to a union where His commandments and precepts would be transgressed. Is this connection a work of the flesh or Spirit? His presence enables us to grow closer to the other and walk in love in our relating.

Do you see a steady progression of love? Have you witnessed mutual growth and surrender in each? Is sacrifice illustrated by both? Marriage is a union of we and given the circumstances you’ve shared significant changes are needed.

Spouses minister to one another. You can’t forsake the relationship for endless service. Unless both share the desire to do so. One party cannot neglect the other and call it God’s will. Is she willing to devote herself to marital demands and responsibilities? Has she spoken of relinquishing some activities in deference to the familial needs you’ll have?

By this I’m referencing conversations she’s initiated. You must realize your lifestyles are world’s apart. Is she willing to accept the responsibilities that come with being your wife? There’s no way around it.

It takes a remarkable person to love your children as you do. It takes a selfless woman to step into your life and carry the burden. You’re taking on your share as well. But this is perpetual. This must be God’s mission. Flesh won’t carry you through. Selfish wants will arise. As they have. She’s unaccustomed to considering others.

You’re attempting to merge differing life seasons. Only the Lord can make that work. In my experience, men frequently misapply a woman’s nurturing instincts. We don’t nurture everything or everyone. Her buy-in must be greater than you. She must want them too.

If you answer this question the rest will be easy. Resolve the root and you can tackle the branches. My previous partners possessed a deep desire to protect and care for my welfare. My daughter was an extension of that but also an entity unto herself. They cherished her. She was never a source of competition. We flowed around her.

In my opinion, godly unions are purposeful. What are you meant to accomplish for the Kingdom and how can she assist in its fulfillment? How can you do the same for her?

If the lone consideration you have to go on is love and godliness you’ll undoubtedly have friction. You’re rudderless. The union needs direction and a mission. It grounds the connection and moves it from eros to agape. True love grows out of service to God and the other.

When I consider a prospect, I gauge their suitability for the things God has asked of me. Will he move me closer to its attainment or compromise the mission? We must be on the same page and mutually enrich one another.

I give great thought to his purpose, wants, needs, and challenges. I consider whether his shortcomings ignite my own or never touch them. I’m gauging fit from several planes to ascertain if God’s glory is foremost or if I’m feeding my heart. Not that it doesn’t matter. But it can’t be the basis of a holy union. I must get on His page.

Given your season, I would seek the company of a loving woman with a heart for marriage and family. I’d look for visible evidence of this fruit in her service, countenance and speech.

I would pay attention to the areas of service (she’s undertaken) and have lengthy discussions on her walk and the holy things that stir her heart. Then I’d quietly question if she’s speaking my language or someone else's.

I wouldn’t allow emotional absence to influence my decision. The right fit is worth the wait. You must ask yourself if you’ve found her. I would fast and put the matter to prayer until the answer comes.

How are you God’s best for her and how is she yours? Literally so. Reference your works when you ponder this. Not the person you’d become.

Finally, can you accept her as-is without changes? Some things may fall away but others will not. Be brutally honest.

I suspect you know the answer and have known for a while. Hence your hesitance. You’ve had many years of vetting. The answer is clear. Do you see it?

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“You can’t forsake your relationship for endless service.” I feel hit the nail on the head. The welcome committee leader for the church has resigned to be more involved in her marriage and kids life’s. This position has now been filled by my ultimatum lady. She recently reached out to me to explain how her life is so full now. Basically saying she misses me but is now living and going “upward” in her life. She didn’t say anything direct but it’s pretty clear.