Was Jesus the only person who never sinned?

Phil W · Aug 17, 2019

PizzaAddict said:
No you don't get both the question and this Bible verse.

Jesus , Yah and Holy Spirit never sinned .

This verse is talking when you become born again after being sealed by Holy Spirit Ephesians 1:13-14. God gives you new life a new nature and it's called in Bible "new man" and the sinful old nature is called "old man".

You will never have anything from this live if you live as old man everything you do in flesh will burn in fire , everything you do in spirit as "new man" will be tested by fire and give you rewards .

It is true since you became born of God the 2nd you the spirit is not able to sin and not able to die you will live forever but God didn't kill your flesh and you are prisoner of it either till ressurrection or untill you die and get new body at ressurrection.

That conclusion is counter to Romans 6:3-7.
Paul writes of the death of the old man, and our resurrection with Christ to "walk in newness of life".
The results?
Freedom from sin...thanks be to God!

Phil W · Aug 17, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
Count me out as someone who believes you cannot sin after being saved. If this was true, why would the Catholics even think about confessing their sins to priests? Why would Christians ask God for forgiveness, even though they know Jesus has already done that? Clearly Scripture says we should continue to repent. If we are told in the Bible to confess our sins after being saved, it is ridiculous to believe we can no longer sin after a certain date.

A second repentance from sin means the first one was a lie to God.
You can't build a relationship with God that is based on a lie.

Phil W · Aug 17, 2019

BCsenior said:
Hey, lots of people think and say lots of ridiculous things!
Better get used to it.

Don't you believe your own "footer"?
Or are you being sarcastic?

Quasiblogo · Aug 17, 2019

Phil W said:
You must also not believe the "doctrine which is according to Godliness"...(1 Tim 6:3)
Why do you think 1 John 3:9 is...wrong?..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
Can grape vines bear figs?
Why don't you believe 2 Cor 5:17?..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Why do you think Romans 6:7 is wrong?..."For he that is dead is freed from sin."

I believe those Scriptures which you quote are divinely inspired. I just can't adopt your application of them.

It all hinges on what “cannot sin” means 1 John 3:9. If we say it is what it is, then so is the description of sin in 1 John 2:1, “My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one”.

My sense of the Scriptures is that 1 John 3:9 means cannot commit the sin that “leads unto death” (1 John 5:16-19), if one “abides in the vine” (John 15:5-8).

CharismaticLady · Aug 17, 2019

BCsenior said:
Sister, this is very interesting! ... I am not sure!
Some of these things are a mystery!

I will say it again ... some very unpopular spiritual truths
are "somewhat hidden" in the NT ... for various reasons!
Perhaps, someone might feel led to start a thread about this!

Mark 16:15-18 ... Is this where you got the idea that ...
the baptism with the Holy Spirit is necessary for salvation (16:16)?
Yes, most of this spiritual power is different than the 1 Cor 12 gifts,
which come from receiving the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

It is interesting that you said "somewhat hidden" as the title of my book on the subject is The Hidden Mystery Behind Tongues. LOL

And, yes, Mark 16:16-18 is why I call the first filling the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and the second, additional filling(s). (They can be multiple). And why this is when a believer is born again of the Spirit.

Acts 1:5 (First filling)
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Acts 4: (Second filling)
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”

31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

BCsenior · Aug 17, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Mark 16:16-18 is why I call the first filling the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and the second, additional filling(s). (They can be multiple). And why this is when a believer is born again of the Spirit.
Acts 1:5 (First filling)
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 4: (Second filling)
29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”
31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.

Sorry, I don't believe a word of this!!!

What do you think about John 20:21-22
So Jesus said to them again,
“Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
And when He had said this, He breathed on them,
and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

CharismaticLady · Aug 17, 2019

BCsenior said:
Sorry, I don't believe a word of this!!!

What do you think about John 20:21-22
So Jesus said to them again,
“Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
And when He had said this, He breathed on them,
and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

Apostles:

1. John 20 (born again)
2. Acts 2 (ministry, Joel 2 was interpreted by prophecy)

120 disciples:

1. Acts 2 (born again)
2. Acts 4 (ministry)

CharismaticLady · Aug 17, 2019

BCsenior said:
Sorry, I don't believe a word of this!!!

What else is new? LOL

Phil W · Aug 17, 2019

Quasiblogo said:
I believe those Scriptures which you quote are divinely inspired. I just can't adopt your application of them.

I really didn't "apply" them to anything.
They stand on their own.

It all hinges on what “cannot sin” means 1 John 3:9. If we say it is what it is, then so is the description of sin in 1 John 2:1, “My little children, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin: and if any one may sin, an advocate we have with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one”.

The "any one" are those not yet in Christ.
And there is no sin "in Christ".
I was once one of those who sought an advocate with God, as were all who can now lift holy hands to the glory of God.

My sense of the Scriptures is that 1 John 3:9 means cannot commit the sin that “leads unto death” (1 John 5:16-19), if one “abides in the vine” (John 15:5-8).

Then you must also believe that fig trees can bear grapes.
God's seed cannot bear evil fruits.

Phil W · Aug 17, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Apostles:

1. John 20 (born again)
2. Acts 2 (ministry, Joel 2 was interpreted by prophecy)

So Thomas wasn't born again?
He was not present at the John 20 episode.

1. Acts 2 (born again)
2. Acts 4 (ministry)

So ten of the apostles were born again twice?

CharismaticLady · Aug 17, 2019

Phil W said:
So Thomas wasn't born again?
He was not present at the John 20 episode.

Doesn't mean he wasn't later. Jesus appeared to them many times.

Phil W · Aug 17, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Doesn't mean he wasn't later. Jesus appeared to them many times.

The point nullifies your POV.

CharismaticLady · Aug 18, 2019

Phil W said:
The point nullifies your POV.

To be born again, we must receive the Holy Spirit. Jesus knows that and could have blown on Him when Thomas doubted Him. Can you show that Thomas was kicked out of the group? I doubt that.

Quasiblogo · Aug 18, 2019

Phil W said:
The "any one" are those not yet in Christ.

Well, Phil, that's the crux of the matter. That would be taking "My little children" (in the same verse), those in Christ, whom the author is talking to, and then wresting the meaning away from the addressee/believer to the unbeliever. Doesn't flow.

Phil W · Aug 18, 2019

Quasiblogo said:
Well, Phil, that's the crux of the matter. That would be taking "My little children" (in the same verse), those in Christ, whom the author is talking to, and then wresting the meaning away from the addressee/believer to the unbeliever. Doesn't flow.

John is telling his "children" how those who are not yet "children", but seeking an advocate, can rely on Christ Jesus for the graceful blessing of His intercession.
As those who commit sin are not God's children we know he isn't writing to sinners.
That is made especially clear in the next two verses...
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:3-4)
The converted have already used the Advocate.

Phil W · Aug 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
To be born again, we must receive the Holy Spirit.

Would you please provide the scripture stating that view?

Jesus knows that and could have blown on Him when Thomas doubted Him. Can you show that Thomas was kicked out of the group? I doubt that.

I doubt Thomas was kicked out, as the gift of the Holy Ghost had yet to be given to anyone till the day of Pentecost.
It is written..."And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me." (Acts 1:4)
They were still waiting long after Jesus' ascension.

CharismaticLady · Aug 18, 2019

Phil W said:
Would you please provide the scripture stating that view?

I doubt Thomas was kicked out, as the gift of the Holy Ghost had yet to be given to anyone till the day of Pentecost.
It is written..."And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me." (Acts 1:4)
They were still waiting long after Jesus' ascension.

John 3:
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Acts 2:
38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

Romans 8:
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

BCsenior · Aug 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Apostles:
1. John 20 (born again)
2. Acts 2 (ministry, Joel 2 was interpreted by prophecy)
120 disciples:
1. Acts 2 (born again)
2. Acts 4 (ministry)

Yes, it does appear that the 12 discipes
were born again in John 20:22.

I thought everyone knew that
on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2)
the 120 (including the 12 disciples) ...
received the baptism with the Holy Spirit
(with the evidence of speaking in tongues).
They obviously were born again also.

Acts 4:31 sounds the same as the Day of Pentecost
(everything was shaken), so I have to assume
that those folks (not the 120)
received the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
They obviously were born again also.

CharismaticLady · Aug 18, 2019

BCsenior said:
Yes, it does appear that the 12 discipes
were born again in John 20:22.

I thought everyone knew that
on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2)
the 120 (including the 12 disciples) ...
received the baptism with the Holy Spirit
(with the evidence of speaking in tongues).
They obviously were born again also.

Acts 4:31 sounds the same as the Day of Pentecost
(everything was shaken), so I have to assume
that those folks (not the 120)
received the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
They obviously were born again also.

There are two manifestations of tongues.

Mark 16:16-18 when you are born again to pray perfect prayer (my words) or praise, even as a choir as the 120 did on the Day of Pentecost. INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE USE TO GOD. Interpretation may happen, but is not necessary as God knows what is being said, and it is TO Him. This tongue is not for the Church from 1 Cor. 12, instead they were heard PRAISING GOD.

1 Corinthians 12 for ministry in the congregation, only 2-3 that have received messages FROM God, may speak, and one interpret. THESE MUST BE INTERPRETED, The messages that can be received are in 1 Corinthians 14:6. Only those that receive the ability to know messages and instructed to speak them in tongues, as well as the person given the gift of interpretation are recognized though many use. Many times it is the pastor. (Not everyone is given this second manifestation of tongues, 1 Corinthians 12:30

Note, that when becoming born again, the person in Mark 16:16-18 may speak in tongues. But if they don't, it doesn't mean they haven't been born again for power over sin. Chains of unbelief from Cessationism must be removed first. I think this is where we disagree. I believe the evidence that one is born again is prayer language, as that manifestation is given to ALL. Not everyone is given the tongues of 1 cor. 12 when they receive the second filling, baptism, whatever you are comfortable. I just prefer to use what the Bible calls something, because there are those that believe this tongues is the evidence and it must be interpreted. Not so. EVERYONE who is born again receives tongues to pray TO God. Interpretation of tongues is not necessary of it would be in Mark 16:17-18

BCsenior · Aug 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
There are two manifestations of tongues.
Mark 16:16-18 when you are born again to pray perfect prayer (my words) or praise, even as a choir as the 120 did on the Day of Pentecost. INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE USE TO GOD. Interpretation may happen, but is not necessary as God knows what is being said, and it is TO Him. This tongue is not from 1 Cor. 12, they were heard PRAISING GOD.
Note, that when becoming born again, the person in Mark 16:16-18 may speak in tongues. But if they don't, it doesn't mean they haven't been born again for power over sin. Chains of unbelief from Cessationism must be removed first.

The problem with your Mark 16 is there is NO mention of:
(1) -- receiving the Spirit inside to be born again
OR
(2) -- being baptized with the Holy Spirit
(with any of the several confirming signs)

Since there is NO mention, you must assume a lot.

Was Jesus the only person who never sinned?

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