Do you believe priests/pastors are closer to God?

Mountainmanbob

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Just curious about what you believe.

For good reason.
Constant study of the Word of God.
Most Pastors are well connected.
But, there is also a WARNING HERE
They are held to a higher accounting.
M-Bob
 
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Chris V++

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I assume many are, since they are more obedient, pray more often, are more familiar with the Bible, and are more immersed in living the Christian lifestyle.It's not by virtue of title or ritual. We can all walk that way and have those 'mountaintop moments.' They just can seem to sustain it. You can just tell when you are in the presence of one so anointed.
 
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PJ76

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Nor do I believe every pastor or priest was called by God.

It would not be a wise choice for someone to become a priest or pastor, especially if they weren't called to do so.
 
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AlexDTX

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Just curious about what you believe.
No, not necessarily. They can be, but they are encumbered with the system of running their business. Those who are close to God don't seek leadership positions, but are known leaders by believers. They are the true servants who are always available to help people.
 
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AlexDTX

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Yes, there was a time - perhaps - when clergy spent four days a week visiting, one writing a sermon, and one taking services (with one day off). That was also a time when what was expected of clergy was very different, and the tools available to do it were very different.

That is not what the Bible says.

Ecc_1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
 
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PJ76

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Closer than who? Some might be; if so it will be because they have, and maintain, a close relationship with him.

If only some might be, then that means the majority are charlatans, since a blind cannot lead the blind. Unfortunately there is no in between. Either you have a relationship with Christ or you don't.
 
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bèlla

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It would not be a wise choice for someone to become a priest or pastor, especially if they weren't called to do so. Especially since they will be held to a higher standard and greater scrutiny on that last day.

People undertake things for reasons outside of God all the time. Pastoral positions are no different. I think that accounts for some of the problems the church is experiencing.
 
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Strong in Him

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If only some might be, then that means the majority are charlatans, since a blind man cannot lead another blind person.

No, the question was, do you believe priests/pastors are closER to God.
To me, this was asking; do you believe that clergy have a closer relationship to God than the rest of us, simply because they, as clergy, study theology, preach and teach the Bible and probably study it and pray more than the average Christian does?

My first question was "closer than who?"
Closer than "Sunday Christians" who occupy a chair/pew for an hour on Sunday, do little the rest of the week and may not even own a Bible? Undoubtedly.
Closer than the new Christian who has just discovered God's amazing love and is enthusiastically reading the Gospels to find out more? Maybe, maybe not.
Closer than the rest of the faithful flock who turn up each week feeling joyful/sad/full of faith/in despair/blessed or are going through the night of the dark soul? Maybe, maybe not. Clergy can go through all those things and it seems that, most of the time, if they do, they try to hide it while they are serving/visiting/ministering to us.

Some may find that reading the Bible does indeed bring them closer to God, and cause them to read it even more; while others may approach it almost academically, with Sunday's sermon in mind, nothing else.
I have no idea.

So we should be more careful with our choice of words.

What did I say?

Either you have a relationship with Christ or you don't.

That wasn't the question.
 
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PaulCyp1

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Not automatically. But hopefully most of them feel a responsibility to remain close to God, in order to help others draw closer to Him. You have to "bring" people to God. You can't "send" people to God if you aren't there yourself.
 
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Francis Drake

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Why people overuse the term "idolatry"?
Its neither overuse nor misuse to term it idolatry when someone,
just because he's a priest or pastor, is
elevated in our minds to a position nearer God.

Reading the posts, everyone seems to think that qualifications and training are needed to get close to God. In Jesus's view, little children were far nearer to God than educated adults!

Matt18v2And having summoned a child, He set it in their midst, 3and said, “Truly I say to you, if you are not converted and become as the little children, you shall never enter into the kingdom of the heavens. 4Therefore whoever will humble himself as this little child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens. 5And whoever shall receive one such little child in My name, receives Me.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Ugh, I hate this kind of argument.

Yes, there was a time - perhaps - when clergy spent four days a week visiting, one writing a sermon, and one taking services (with one day off). That was also a time when what was expected of clergy was very different, and the tools available to do it were very different.

I can't administrate the parish, manage compliance with a raft of different legal obligations, deliver in-depth teaching programs to people of every age from newborn to 90-something, lead creative and vibrant worship midweek and on Sundays and in nursing homes, spearhead all sorts of community building and outreach activities, and manage more than a couple of pastoral visits a week, who are likely to be folks in particular crisis. (In fact, I can't manage all of that anyway, but that's a separate issue).

Also, technology has changed. Today pastoral care might mean that I scroll through my FB feed, notice that a parishioner has posted about having skin cancer, pick up the phone and ring and ask how they are. I'm not visiting, but that doesn't mean I'm out of touch.

More on topic: no, I don't believe that clergy are, by default, closer to God than laity. There are many incredibly faithful, prayerful, profoundly holy people who are not called to ordained ministry. I would hope, at least, that indifference to God is not really an option for the clergy.

Yes, there was a time - perhaps - when clergy spent four days a week visiting, one writing a sermon, and one taking services (with one day off). That was also a time when what was expected of clergy was very different, and the tools available to do it were very different.
My point exactly - we have adopted a structure that has replaced a 'Father' knowledge of each family and folks are now more isolated and less understood because of it.

I can't administrate the parish, manage compliance with a raft of different legal obligations, deliver in-depth teaching programs to people of every age from newborn to 90-something, lead creative and vibrant worship midweek and on Sundays and in nursing homes, spearhead all sorts of community building and outreach activities, and manage more than a couple of pastoral visits a week, who are likely to be folks in particular crisis. (In fact, I can't manage all of that anyway, but that's a separate issue).
Again you excellently illustrate my point - we need to totally rethink how we are doing church.

Also, technology has changed. Today pastoral care might mean that I scroll through my FB feed, notice that a parishioner has posted about having skin cancer, pick up the phone and ring and ask how they are. I'm not visiting, but that doesn't mean I'm out of touch.
Yes is does - Humans crave for human contact in a society that isolates folks. They are looking for love and understanding and family - not church notices, a sermon a week, and a funeral.

I once had a word from Jesus for a prominent business man to radically change his career and leave the country. Out of politeness I rang the church and spoke to the minister about this. He was rather put out that I would presume to deliver such a 'word' to one of his flock. Well, he received and followed the word which led him in an entirely new direction that led to marriage, family and a new career. I am still in touch with him, this happened about 20 years ago. The bottom line is that, yes, his church should have been able to encourage him in this new direction but like yourself with all the demands you have described there simply isn't the time to wait on God for such inspiration.
 
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Paidiske

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That is not what the Bible says.

Ecc_1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

The irony of posting this on the internet... :rolleyes:

My point exactly - we have adopted a structure that has replaced a 'Father' knowledge of each family and folks are now more isolated and less understood because of it.

I don't know that that's true. Just because we conduct relationships differently doesn't mean we aren't relating.

Again you excellently illustrate my point - we need to totally rethink how we are doing church.

Maybe; maybe not. What we can't do is turn the clock back to the 19th century. Those days are gone and not coming back.

Yes is does - Humans crave for human contact in a society that isolates folks. They are looking for love and understanding and family - not church notices, a sermon a week, and a funeral.

And what I described is a far cry from notices, a sermon and a funeral. But also - if people need a church family - that's not all on the minister to provide. Where's the rest of the "family" in this picture?

I once had a word from Jesus for a prominent business man to radically change his career and leave the country. Out of politeness I rang the church and spoke to the minister about this. He was rather put out that I would presume to deliver such a 'word' to one of his flock. Well, he received and followed the word which led him in an entirely new direction that led to marriage, family and a new career. I am still in touch with him, this happened about 20 years ago. The bottom line is that, yes, his church should have been able to encourage him in this new direction but like yourself with all the demands you have described there simply isn't the time to wait on God for such inspiration.

He was wrong to be put out. But "his church" did encourage the business man; are you not part of "his church"?

But that has nothing to do with whether or not we can reasonably expect the main activity of a minister today to be visiting door-to-door. And the suggestion that we don't take time to pray is frankly offensive. How would you even know?
 
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PizzaAddict

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Just curious about what you believe.

According to Bible every believer is priest , with high priest Jesus Christ so the belief that priest is person wearing black and working full time in Church is false every believer is one .
Revelation 1:6 King James Version (KJV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


Pastor on the other hand is supposed to be leading group of believers in area both in word and morally so he is supposed to have wife , kids and act decent to give good example to people and help them resolve family problems based on his own experience and word of God .

Problem arrives when people take appearance of person and judge acccording to it. Thinking that one person is better than other because he did X Y Z sin and the previous did ony A B and once Z in their "imaginary" scale of how bad sin is while everybody is equally guilty of sin and there are no levels of sin.

So no in short they are not . All believers have equal rights and God is not respect of persons .
 
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Carl Emerson

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He was wrong to be put out. But "his church" did encourage the business man; are you not part of "his church"?

Yes totally.

But that has nothing to do with whether or not we can reasonably expect the main activity of a minister today to be visiting door-to-door. And the suggestion that we don't take time to pray is frankly offensive. How would you even know?

If you read again you will see I didn't say that. You have described a life of busyness attending to administrative issues. With this schedule you would find it hard to put aside even one day a week for meditational reading of His word and prayer. In any case heaps of folks were offended at what Jesus said so to offend is a legitimate part of God's character.

Maybe; maybe not. What we can't do is turn the clock back to the 19th century. Those days are gone and not coming back.

I have hope that we will one day return to a more biblical mode of 'doing church' and I hope it doesn't take persecution to kick that off. In the mean time there is a move towards home based church as a response to the failures of traditional church to serve the Body of Christ on a personal level.

And what I described is a far cry from notices, a sermon and a funeral. But also - if people need a church family - that's not all on the minister to provide. Where's the rest of the "family" in this picture?

Well the present church structures are leaving believers in isolation - see for example this thread - pretty typical of what folk are struggling with.

prayer request

I have heard from the pulpit embarrassment when it comes to the first 5 chapters of Acts which details God's intent that we relate as a community or family of believers.

I don't mean for you to take my comments personally, but just maybe our dialogue will trigger a better solution to the issues we both grapple with.
 
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