Matt. 25:46 Everlasting Punishment

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Country Boy: I do appreciate the fact our Heavenly Lord has an everlastingness to all He is and does. All aspects of His great glory begin in Him and end in Him as the all of ta panta!

One more time>>>>>

Why is aeon/aion in the plural?

Why would you think that the Eternal God of Creation would create a place called heaven for the saved to live eternally, but then disbelieve that the same God would not create a Lake of Fire that would torment the wicked lost eternally????

That kind of logic is completely lost on me personally. That is above and beyond the clear teaching of the Scriptures that the wicked lost will be tormented forever.

To arrive at your theology, YOU must completely reject the Word of God.

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Old Country Boy: Your cyber pal is a couple of digits short of full D.D. reaching the status at the moment of Dr. of Dorkyness.

Even with this less than full stature of D.D., I know what a real father is. My earthly father was a gem, my Heavenly Father is the standard for fathers with a capital S!

Again...…...if you want to make an insult clear, then you are going to have to explain what you mean by......D.D.

I have no clue on what you are trying insult me with.

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Country Boy: F.L. has asked over and over and over again to focus on the 2 O.P's. I do not know if this would approach the everlastingless realm, but it has been requested a bunch.

Why is aeon in the plural?

1.
Context strongly determines the meaning of eternity/eternal,
whether it be "for an extremely long time" or "forever."

2.
With rare exceptions (e.g., Rev 19:3), the plural is always used in
the sense of "forever."

3.
Would not Rev 14:11 indicate an eternal experience not just eternal
results, as also the lake of fire experience (Rev 20:10)?

4.
The use of the plural aiwna (aiona) in Jude 13 to describe the
experience of "black darkness" is utterly unexpected and
unnecessary if universalism were in view (cf. 2 Pet 2:17 where
aiona is not used).
The Hebrew concept of time and "aionios" and "aion"

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Country Boy: F.L. has asked over and over and over again to focus on the 2 O.P's. I do not know if this would approach the everlastingless realm, but it has been requested a bunch.

Why is aeon in the plural?

And a response has been given every time you have asked.

FineLinen · Aug 17, 2019

Major1 said:
Again...…...if you want to make an insult clear, then you are going to have to explain what you mean by......D.D.

I have no clue on what you are trying insult me with.

Dear Major1: As a reflection of the Father I love, insults are completely out of order for anybody (the radical pas of ALL)!

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Sky: My friend, you do not have your listening ears on. You also must trot over to find your reading glasses.

There is exactly ONE (1) passage of Scripture with "everlasting punishment".

You hopefully will examine the scope of aionios punishment. The punishment is NOT ETERNAL but aionial/everlasting!

Our Father (the Father of all fathers) punishes His wayward children with a purpose in view! It is NOT mindless punishment as an end in itself but consummating in change & transformation.

God is the Father of all fathers!

Again...……...How many Scriptures do you need to make something said by God valid????

This particular argument has no legs my brother. I suggest you move on to something else. Your insistence of the idea of something having to be said by God more than once is telling on your Bible knowledge.

Just so that everyone reading this know the truth, there are no passages of Scripture that require a command or teaching to be repeated more than ONE time. There are however, several passages that tell Christians to do what God says.

"He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day” (John 12:48).
“The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us” (1 John 3:24).
“If you love me you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15).
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter” (Matthew 7:21).
The Bible Answer Show: Does the Bible have to command something 3 times for it to be a requirement for the Christian?

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Major1: As a reflection of the Father I love, insults are completely out of order for anybody (the radical pas of ALL)!

So then what does ……..Doctor of D.D. mean that you used. Maybe it was a compliment and if that is the case, I would like to know.

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Quite ironically without you realizing it, you have nicely made my point for me. Thank you for that! As I wrote earlier the kings of the earth are always portrayed in Revelation as the enemies of God. However Jesus as ruler over them, allows them to enter the New Jerusalem as you pointed out. You made the initial claim that no one gets a second chance. The example of the kings of the earth proves you wrong. They were obviously unsaved since they were God's enemies but they became saved as a result of being consigned to the lake of fire.
"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices falsehood." Rev 22:14-15

The kings of the earth being God's enemies, are situated outside the New Jerusalem in the LOF along with the dogs, sorcerers, sexually immoral, etc. per Rev 22:15. They are washing their robes (present tense Greek participle) V.14.
Blessed are those who wash (plynontes | πλύνοντες | pres act ptcp nom pl masc) their robes, so they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.

This verse contradicts your notion that there is no second chance in the lake of fire but affirms my belief that the LOF is for the purpose of chastisement as those who end up there have to wash their garments before being allowed to enter through the gates of the New Jerusalem.

NO sir, you are incorrect again.

I posted Scriptures to show you clearly that the phrase..."kings of the earth" can mean lost people or God's people depending upon the CONTEXT of the Scriptures listed.

There is NO contradiction at all. The Scriptures tell us that we have ONE chance to go to heaven and that is to accept Jesus Christ as our Master WHILE we are alive.

Death closes the door of salvation.

Allow me to ask you this. How many people were saved from the flood AFTER GOD closed the door of the Ark????

No one can get out of Hell once they arrive there.

Luke 16:26...….
“And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot: neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.”

WHY is that so difficult for anyone to understand?????

The gulf is fixed. NO ONE LEAVES------EVER!

Notice another important fact. The rich man in Hell, prayed. People in Hell are praying today. Why? Because they have an interest in the eternal welfare of their loved ones who are left upon the earth.

Luke 16:27-28......….
'Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment,”

The key to the right understanding of this passage is verse 30,”...
"if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.”

FineLinen · Aug 17, 2019

Major1 said:
And a response has been given every time you have asked.

Dear Major1: My beloved wife has given me, your own F.L. the Dr. of Dorkiness, an ultimatum>>>

"Get off that computer."

I refuse to displease her in any way, so I will trot away from it for as long as it takes to restore our union of 56+ years plus 6 years of courtship.

A Chart of the Judgments

SkyWriting · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Sky: My friend, you do not have your listening ears on. You also must trot over to find your reading glasses.
There is exactly ONE (1) passage of Scripture with "everlasting punishment".

Then it is disqualified. Sorry.

For me, anything of significance, God covers in multiple books, by multiple authors, written at different times. So your focus on one instance has disqualified the topic.

Because this additional analysis scares you, it indicates you are on a tangent.

FineLinen · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Major1: My beloved wife has given me, your own F.L. the Dr. of Dorkiness, an ultimatum>>>

"Get off that computer."

I refuse to displease her in any way, so I will trot away from it for as long as it takes to restore our union of 56+ years plus 6 years of courtship.

A Chart of the Judgments

My blessed wife has reconsidered her ultimatum. She said I am the finest husband she has ever had. It took nearly 5 min. to bring her back into union and fellowship. I am most certainly losing my touch.

GRACE & TRUTH Articles: THE EONS OF THE BIBLE with Concordance

The Father's love NEVER fails!

FineLinen · Aug 17, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Then it is disqualified. Sorry.

For me, anything of significance, God covers in multiple books, by multiple authors, written at different times. So your focus on one instance has disqualified the topic.

Because this additional analysis scares you, it indicates you are on a tangent.

Dear Sky: There is one basic Significance of all significance's summed up in a mere 3 words>>>

Love never fails

Ever!

SkyWriting · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Sky: There is one basic Significance of all significance's summed up in a mere 3 words>>>Love never fails
Ever!

Another biblical phrase that is not repeated twice in scripture.
This is related.....Jesus never blinds.

FineLinen · Aug 17, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Another biblical phrase that is not repeated twice in scripture.
This is related.....Jesus never blinds.

Dear Sky: The Father kills and He makes alive. Every overture of His is good and kind and leads to the peaceable fruits of righteousness!

Love NEVER fails

SkyWriting · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Sky: The Father kills and He makes alive. Every overture of His is good and kind and leads to the peaceable fruits of righteousness!

No truth in scripture is beyond the influence of additional research.

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Revelation 20:10
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Romans 5:21
so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 3:15-16
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Mark 9:48-49
‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.

FineLinen · Aug 17, 2019

SkyWriting said:
No truth in scripture is beyond the influence of additional research.

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Revelation 20:10
and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Romans 5:21
so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 3:15-16
that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Mark 9:48-49
‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’ For everyone will be salted with fire.

Dear Sky: Everyone will indeed be salted with Fire! The radical all of pas shall be salted with His glorious Presence.

The all

hedrick · Aug 17, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Matthew 25:46
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Habakkuk 1:12
Ezekiel 35:5
Jeremiah 25:12

What Does the Bible Say About Eternal Punishment? - OpenBible

Mat 25:46 - possibly eternal suffering; hard to be sure because of the non-literal sense eternal often has
2 Thes 1:9 - as always, it's hard to be sure of the meaning of a passage that is probably non-literal, but the most obvious meaning is destruction, not continuing punishment that goes on forever. That's how F F Bruce understands it (my only commentary on this book).
Habakkuk 1:12 - the context here is judgement in this life; he's talking about the Chaldeans upcoming destruction of the nation.
Ezekiel 35:5 - this is clearly about historical events; the kingdom of Edom was destroyed, but its people moved and became the Idumaeans, who continued into NT times
Jeremiah 25:12 - this is about historical events; this refers to the neo-Babylonian Empire, the "Chaldeans". They covered quite a large area, which certainly did not all become desolate. The empire was conquered by Cyrus.

I don't see that this list actually contains any everlasting punishment except possibly Mat 25:46.

Major1 · Aug 17, 2019

FineLinen said:
Dear Major1: My beloved wife has given me, your own F.L. the Dr. of Dorkiness, an ultimatum>>>

"Get off that computer."

I refuse to displease her in any way, so I will trot away from it for as long as it takes to restore our union of 56+ years plus 6 years of courtship.

A Chart of the Judgments

I understand completely. I have 52 years with my wife so I know what you are saying.

Actually......I do not know what else can be said that would persuade your understanding.
You are pretty much entrenched in Universalism and I have already said more than I needed to say.

Stay well and may the lord bless yu.

hedrick · Aug 17, 2019

Major1 said:
So YOU just admitted that the Bible does teach eternal punishment of the wicked lost!!!!

2 Thes 1:9 - probably indicates destruction, not continuing torment.
Dan 12:2 - everlasting contempt is pretty ambiguous, don't you think? It could be anything from a lower status in the resurrection to destruction. It doesn't appear to be intended to talk about specific status in the afterlife at all.
Rev 20:10 - Maybe. It's dangerous to get too literal about the Rev, but the dominant picture for humans is destruction. That's what the second death seems to have meant in Jewish terminology. It's the devil, the beast, and the false prophet who are said to be tormented forever, though I think that likely ends with the new heavens and earth.
Mat 25:41 - may well intend everlasting suffering, though as always we need to be cautious about just how literally eternal is meant.

I don't think you've found anything beyond Mat 25:46

FineLinen · Aug 17, 2019

Major1 said:
I understand completely. I have 52 years with my wife so I know what you are saying.

Actually......I do not know what else can be said that would persuade your understanding.
You are pretty much entrenched in Universalism and I have already said more than I needed to say.

Stay well and may the lord bless yu.

Dear Major1: There is one sure way. I have been hit dead on with a flaming ball of "ball lightning" 50 years ago. Thirty years ago the Father spoke 6 words to me that nearly killed me in spirit soul and body. Just ask Him to continue killing me.

I am enjoying you and those who wander this way. May each of us stand before the Flaming swords of the Lord swirling in every direction!

Matt. 25:46 Everlasting Punishment

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