Does this make it any clearer?

Original Happy Camper

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First half


events of the 1260 days* - Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

(then in ) second half

* followed by events of the 3 1/2 days** - Revelation 11:7-13

** followed by events of the 42 months - Revelation 13:5, Revelation 11:2

[events of the time, times, half time - run concurrently with the 42 months - Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14]


If you are a true bible student then look at the opposite of what you teach and see it your beliefs holds water

Your whole theology fails because the 70 week prophecy is continuous no GAP

You are preaching what Ribera came up with during the reformation

"This end times deception page will explain how the concepts of a one-man end-times Antichrist in a 7-year tribulation period became so prevalent, after 1800 years of Biblical teaching that knew nothing of the sort."

Jesuit End Times Antichrist Deception
 
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Douggg

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"This end times deception page will explain how the concepts of a one-man end-times Antichrist in a 7-year tribulation period became so prevalent, after 1800 years of Biblical teaching that knew nothing of the sort."
OHC, I am going to challenge you to find anything from Ribera regarding what I teach in regards to the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

Here it is...

What the confirmation of the covenant is comes from a combination of a couple of passages. One is a definite. The other is by knowing what the Jews (Judaism) believe of a well known verse(s) that we Christians know to be different than their belief.

1. first the definite passage, you can count on it happening, in the future as the confirmation of the covenant for 7 years. Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

As the children of Israel were about to cross over the Jordan and possess the land of Israel, the promised land that God had said would be theirs forever - that second generation was assembled by Moses, which he gave a big speech to them, knowing he would not be going with them.

In that speech, Moses wanted to make sure that future generations of the children of Israel, long distance into the future forever, would not forget the ordeal they went through and the magnitude of the covenant God had made with them, as the land of Israel being theirs forever.

So Moses made it a law that all future leaders of Israel would make a similar speech to the nation of Israel (1) on a 7 year interval (2) on the feast of tabernacles (a fall feast) (3) from the place of God's choosing.

I have talked to the Jews about this subject and they consider the temple mount the place of God's choosing. Hasn't been done in recent memory because of the situation with the muslims on the temple mount.

Application in the end times. Following Gog/Magog, the little horn person coming from the EU, will enter the middle east with his EU military on the so called premise of being the peace keeper in the region (Daniel 8:25). But the underlying reason and carrot for the ten EU leaders under him, will be to secure all the oil for the EU.

The little horn person coming with his EU military, having been staged in Greece (the area of one of the 4 breakup kingdoms) as a deterrent to Gog/Magog, will be the prince who shall come (from north and west of Israel, Daniel 8:9, with a strong army).

He will be a Jew. The Jews, many of them believe the messianic age (with messiah) will follow Gog/Magog. And all of them, who are knowledgeable about their own religion, believe that one of the jobs of the messiah is to fight the battles of God in defending Israel.

It will appear to them that the little horn person prior to Gog/Magog was going to fight in defending Israel. Whether he actually does during Gog/Magog is questionable. But the intent will not be.

So following Gog/Magog, the Jews, Israel, will think the person is their messiah. Also because of the emergence of the false prophet around that time claiming to be Elijah, to say that he is. So in that atmosphere the person will be anointed the King of Israel - officially making him the Antichrist.

So in the role of the leader of Israel, the King of Israel, perceived messiah - the Antichrist makes the big speech confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant regarding the land of Israel, that Moses required back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, from the temple mount, on the feast of tabernacles, addressing the nation of Israel, to re-establish the 7 year interval. The speech and ceremony will be televised worldwide, imo.

At the same time, many in Christianity will fall away from believing that Jesus is the messiah, and will buy into the Antichrist as well.

continued in my next post.....
 
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Douggg

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continued from my previous post....

btw, I meant to comment that we know of the big central issue in the middle east is over who the land belongs to. So the confirming of the Mt. Sinai covenant from the temple mount following Gog/Magog would fit in with finality of present circumstances.

2. the second passage - Jeremiah 31:31-34. The passage about the new covenant which we know to be the covenant in Jesus.

Jews, Judaism, can hardly agree that the new covenant is new because it points too much to Jesus. So they contend new means "renewal" of the existing covenant - to them, the Mt. Sinai covenant.

So, when the Antichrist makes the big speech from the temple mount confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant, resetting the 7 year cycle, it will seem to them to be the "renewal" of the Mt. Sinai covenant.

From that point, the world will be saying peace and safety, thinking they have entered the messianic age. For a big part of the first half.

continued in my next post....
 
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Douggg

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....continued from my previous post.

I show the peace and safety on my chart, the transgression of desolation, and then later the abomination of desolation. Can you find anything from Ribera distinguishing the transgression of desolation from the abomination of desolation?
upload_2019-8-17_8-2-17.jpeg
 
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BABerean2

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You still did not address why that makes your view that Satan will not be cast down from the second heaven in the future, in Revelation 12:7-9 is right.

I have already done that, but you ignored it.

You claim there will be a future battle between the good angels and the wicked angels, when the wicked angels will be cast down to the earth, even though you have just admitted that the wicked angles are already here.
What is wrong with this picture?

You have claimed Satan is found in Genesis 3:15, but not Genesis 3:14, by ignoring the basic rules of English.

You are also ignoring "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, described by Christ in John 5:27-30, to make your man-made chronology work.


Any end-time chronology which starts with Daniel 9:27 can never be correct, since the 70 weeks were completed during the first century.

As for your chart, you need to go back and start over, and quit trying to make God's Word match your man-made chart.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner
.
 
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Douggg

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You claim there will be a future battle between the good angels and the wicked angels, when the wicked angels will be cast down to the earth, even though you have just admitted that the wicked angles are already here.
What is wrong with this picture?
Satan and his angels can currently freely roam the earth and the second heaven.

You are also ignoring "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, described by Christ in John 5:27-30, to make your man-made chronology work.
You left off part of Revelation 11:18,

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

It is talking about a broad based time. The reward to the prophets, the saints, and them that fear God's name, great and small, with rule with Jesus during the millennium. The dead, who do not take part in the resurrection/rapture event, and the first resurrection of the millennium, will be judged at the Great White Throne judgments.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Satan and his angels can currently freely roam the earth and the second heaven.
You left off part of Revelation 11:18,
BABerean2 said:
God told Satan that he would be confined to the earth in Genesis 3:14.
Hello BAB. Reminds me of this awesome event in a favorite OT book of mine, the Book of Job.

Job 1:
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.
7 The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the land and walking around on it.” 8The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job?
Job 2:
1 On another day, the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD; and Satan also came with them to present himself before Him.
2 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, “From roaming about on the land and walking around on it.” 3The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job?
[MATTHEW 23:15]

Job 15:34
For the congregation of hypocrites
shall be desolate<2611>,
and fire shall consume the tabernacles/tents of bribery. [Matthew 23:15-33]
Job 36:13
But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.
======================
These "messengers of Satan and the Devil also roamed the land of Israel prior to 70ad

John 8:44 `Ye out of a father, the Devil/Slanderer/False Accuser<1228> are, and the desires<1939> of the father of ye, ye are willing to be doing.
That one a man-killer was from beginning, and in the Truth not has stood, that not is Truth in him.
Whenever he may be talking, the falsehood out of the own he is talking, that a falsifier he is and the father of it.

Matthew 23:15
Woe to ye Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! [JOB 15:34]
that ye are going about the Sea and the Dry/xhran <3584> to make one proselyte and whenever he may be becoming, ye are making him a son of geennhV twofold-more of ye-selves
[JOB 1:7 JOB 2:2]
Matt 23:33 "Serpents! produce of vipers! how? ye may be fleeing from the judging of the Gehenna <1067>


Romans 16:20
The yet God of the Peace shall be crushing the Satan/Adversary under the feet of ye in swiftness.

The grace of the Lord of us Jesus Christ with ye.

And this verse before the destruction of their Temple and Priesthood in 70ad

Rev 3:9
Behold! I make of the synagogue of the Satan those saying themselves to be Jews, and are not, but do lie;
behold! I will make them that they may come and bow before thy feet, and may know that I loved thee.
====================================
www.kingdombiblestudies.org/tablecontents.htm

Kindgdom Bible Studies Job


The book of Job is written in Hebrew in the style of a poetic drama, or stage play. The first two chapters, which constitute the introduction, are in prose. Beginning with the third chapter and continuing on through 42:6 the form is poetical. From 42:7 to the end of the book it is again prose, providing as an epilogue a few facts concerning Job's later life. What is so powerfully set forth in this book is not the unfolding of a drama full of action, event, or happening. Instead it is a poem in which several great issues that relate to the righteousness of God and the mystery of life are explored by means of conversations between Job and his friends. There is no "movement," except in the intensity of the feeling and thought expressed, until the poem comes to a crescendo with the voice of Yahweh speaking from a whirlwind.

The book of Job belongs to a type of literature known as Wisdom, common in the Near East, a special kind of writing based upon practical observations about the mystery of life — and how to live it. Its modern counterpart would be philosophy. But Hebrew Wisdom writing was often in the form of a fable, or a riddle, or a proverb — most often presented in the form of poetry or poetic drama. Poetry is the language of imagination, intuition, and revelation. Poetry penetrates to a depth in the human soul that facts, reason and logic can never reach. Our confidence in the veracity of the Holy Scriptures need not be shaken, however, whether the story of Job is the history of an actual man who lived or merely the fictitious main character in a drama or stage play, for the divine inspiration of the book is readily evident. Job is not mere literature. It is life, distilled. As Mark Toohey has so aptly stated: "Indeed, no other single writing speaks as loudly to those of the Father's calling and election in this hour as does the book of Job. In its forty-two chapters is embodied the entirety of God's dealings with those whom He has called His sons, revealing the depths of truth and reality inworked by His Spirit in those of His election. No wonder, then, that the book of Job should be surrounded by such ambiguity, having no definable human origin; for that which it unveils is wholly a supernatural work undertaken out of the counsel of God and wrought in men by His hand only. Job, it would seem, was written by the very finger of God!"

In the book of Job there is a man and he dwells in the fertile land of Uz and his name is Job. The Hebrew word for Job is IYOWB and means, "hated, persecuted — hated or persecuted for being of an opposite tribe; enemy, calamitous, afflicted, or adversity; a coming back, restored to one's senses." It is used 56 times in the book of Job — this is 7 X 8, or PERFECTION BY RESURRECTION, or the PERFECTING OF A NEW MAN IN A NEW DAY. The primary and sequential thoughts here are: hated, tried, and restored to perfection. Those are precisely the meanings in Job's name. Can we not see the clear pattern of man's experience from the first humanity in Adam to the second humanity in Christ? Against the background of the Garden of Eden it is related how man was put into this Garden in order to live in it and how two trees stood in the middle of the Garden: one the tree of life, the other the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. And upon these two trees IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GARDEN the destiny of man was to be decided. There were, indeed, three kinds of trees in the Garden. There was the tree of life, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and then all those other trees denoted as "all the trees of the garden." Man began his sojourn upon earth living in the realm of "all the trees of the garden." But man's future experience and destiny were to be decided by his relationship to the two trees in the middle..............

The Bible is a book of war. "The Lord is a man of war" (Ex. 15:3). The saints are men of war. Heaven is a realm of war as well as the earth. "And there was war in heaven" (Rev. 12:7). The sons of God are the Lord's army. David was a man of war. "You (Absalom) know your father (David) and his men that they are mighty men, and your father is a man of war" (I Sam. 17:8). David faced Goliath and took his sword. He was a man of war before he met Goliath. David is a type of Christ. His followers were men of war. "And there was long war between the house of Saul and the house of David: but David waxed stronger and stronger, and the house of Saul waxed weaker and weaker" (II Sam. 3:1). The saints follow a man of war.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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continued from my previous post....
2. the second passage - Jeremiah 31:31-34. The passage about the new covenant which we know to be the covenant in Jesus.
Jews, Judaism, can hardly agree that the new covenant is new because it points too much to Jesus. So they contend new means "renewal" of the existing covenant - to them, the Mt. Sinai covenant.
continued in my next post....
Sounds like the makings of a new thread
Oh wait....here is one I had on the GT board.......unfortunately is didn't generate much interest......

Did Christ come to establish a NEW covenant or renew the OLD covenant?
I would like to discuss these verses of Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8
What is the difference between something brand New and something that is renewed?

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold! days, ones coming a declaration of YHWH and I Cut/03772 karath with the house of Yisra'el and with the house of Y@huwdah a New Covenant
Hebrews 8:8
For faulting them He is saying 'behold! days are coming,' is saying LORD 'and I shall be together-finishing/sun-telesw <4931> upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah a New Covenant
Jeremiah 31:32
'Not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them', saith YAHWEH.
Hebrews 8:9
'Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day of My taking them by their hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt -- because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them', saith the LORD, --
Jeremiah 31:33
'For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days', declares the LORD:
'I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts.
And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Hebrews 8:

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
13 in the to be saying `New,' He hath made Old the First.
The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance


Luke 5:
37 "And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into Old skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young/neon <3501> wine into New/kainouV <2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 and no one driking Old immediately is willing young,
for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".
[Matthew 9:17/Mark 2:22]
==============================================
Only 7 responses:
Looks like you exhaustively researched this.
The OT was obedient performance based salvation for Israel only.
No since in renewing again, Israel proved the point of human helplessness in getting and staying worthy, again and again.
Grace on the other hand, is mercy trumping justice.
Now that's something completely different.
:)
obviously new, said so by jesus himself Luke 22:20
Parallel Verses
New International Version
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant Hebrews 9:15
The new covenant is part of God's promise in the old. So it's really a fulfillment of the old.
Not really. The OT contains both law and gospel. The NT contains both law and gospel. The Old Covenant is in the OT. The New Covenant brings the NT. The New Covenant does not absolve the law.

Only to the simplest of minds was salvation based on obedience of the law, which was largely the ceremonies of sacrificial offerings. These sacrifices did not make people in the OT righteous and bring them salvation. God did not desire these sacrifices even while he commanded them by the law. Hebrews 10:8-10.

Next read Hebrews 11 to see that it was actually faith that brought righteousness and provided salvation, even in the Old Covenant times. So many have been incorrectly taught to believe that God's covenants were two way contracts, if I do what the contract says then I will receive from God the promised salvation. Not true of the Old Covenant, not true of the New Covenant.

The Old Covenant is largely based on repeated animal sacrifices. These sacrifices were to teach that sin was an offense to God and required punishment. Animals were their "scapegoat". But, it was not the method to their salvation. They all looked forward to the coming Messiah, their savior, even if they had incorrect ideas on what the Christ would bring. Faith in this Savior is what saved them.

The New Covenant teaches us to partake in the Lord's Supper which is a sacrament of Jesus' death; as one perfect sacrifice in place of us for our sins. But are we saved through the Lord's Supper? No. It is something Christians do as part of following God. It is the New Covenant as Jesus commanded us to do in remembrance of his death.

So the Old and New Covenants are not so different. They both involved shedding of innocent blood for the guilty. The big difference being, Jesus' death was perfect and sufficient for all.

Now did the OC sacrifices save everyone? No.
Does Jesus' death in the NC save everyone? No.
There is something else required, faith. Faith in the coming promised Savior saved in the OC. Faith in Jesus saves us in the NC.

See, not so different after all. Kinda makes sense because God does not change.

Regardless, it is by God's grace that you were saved in the OC and in the NC; for the blood shed was not our own.
The new covenant accomplishes what the old could not: restored justice or righteousness in God's creation-in us, where God not only forgives and forgets sin but also takes it away, placing His law in man's heart and writing it on his mind. Either man operates by his own efforts, endeavoring to be righteous based on the law at best, or he partners with God, 'apart from Whom he can do nothing' (John 15:5), a partnership or communion based on and realized by faith.

IOW, man doesn't need to be obedient first of all in order to be righteous; rather man needs God first of all in order to be obedient. Adam thought he could be perfect within and by himself, apart from God. We're here to learn otherwise; our righteousness comes only by and from Him. To put it another way: 'If you love me, you will obey me' sums up John 14:15-31. Love of God compels obedience. Love accomplishes justice or righteousness in us because love is justice. It fulfills the law the right way, by the Spirit rather than by the letter. Grace both leads us to and brings about this love.
Establish a New Covenant or Renew the Old Covenant

  1. *
    I vote brand New Covenant
    4 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. I vote renew Old Covenant
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. I am not sure, but am willing to learn
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other
    1 vote(s)
    20.0%
  5. What's the difference?
    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
 
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Douggg

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You have claimed Satan is found in Genesis 3:15, but not Genesis 3:14, by ignoring the basic rules of English.
No, not because of me ignoring of rules of English. And you mis-stated what I wrote. Satan is in the protoevangelium in Genesis 3:15. Not literally in the text cursed to crawl on his belly in the dust for the rest of his life.

The issue has nothing to do with rules of English. You are taking the protoevangelium* in Genesis 3:15, and applying that as a literal meaning to Genesis 3:15 and Genesis 3:14 to come up with the faulty idea that Satan has been literally crawling on his belly in the dust ever since the fall of man. What the issue is - is an obvious faulty rationale by you.

*The protoevangelium is taking the literal meaning of the text, in Genesis 3:15, and presenting the underlying theological meaning about Jesus being the messiah, who will destroy Satan, the first mention of the concept in the bible.
_______________________________________________________________

Dr Kelly Varner hasn't even seen my chart(s) to comment on it.

Did Dr. Kelly Varner claim that Satan has literally been crawling on his belly in the dust since the fall of man, like you?
 
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Original Happy Camper

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....continued from my previous post.

I show the peace and safety on my chart, the transgression of desolation, and then later the abomination of desolation. Can you find anything from Ribera distinguishing the transgression of desolation from the abomination of desolation? View attachment 261227

The ‘Old‘ and ‘New‘ Covenant refer to their confirmation date.
The terms “new” and “old” in regard to the covenant DON’T refer to their creation date; rather, they indicate the order in which they were confirmed.

The Sinai Covenant was confirmed in the Levitical priest system by the daily sacrifice of the lamb for the sins of the people.

The Abraham Covenant was confirmed by Jesus our High Priest, who died on the cross as the sacrificial Lamb of God. So it is referred to as “new.”
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Dr Kelly Varner hasn't even seen my chart(s) to comment on it. Or else he would take down his video.

I dont think he would you see he cannot see he died in 2009
 
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Original Happy Camper

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....continued from my previous post.

I show the peace and safety on my chart, the transgression of desolation, and then later the abomination of desolation. Can you find anything from Ribera distinguishing the transgression of desolation from the abomination of desolation? View attachment 261227

once again her is the source of your theology

The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism

So, according to Ribera, the 1260 days and 42 months and 3 1/2 times of prophecy were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, and therefore none of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy, but to the future, to a period immediately prior to the second coming, hence the name Futurism. A 1591 edition, 1593 edition, and a 1603 edition of his commentary are now online.

FUTURISM

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed, the antichrist, a single individual, would:

  • Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.
  • Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
  • Abolish the Christian religion.
  • Deny Jesus Christ.
  • Be received by the Jews.
  • Pretend to be God.
  • Kill the two witnesses of God.
  • Conquer the world.

sound familiar
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Douggg said:
....continued from my previous post.

I show the peace and safety on my chart, the transgression of desolation, and then later the abomination of desolation. Can you find anything from Ribera distinguishing the transgression of desolation from the abomination of desolation? View attachment 261227
once again her is the source of your theology
The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
So, according to Ribera, the 1260 days and 42 months and 3 1/2 times of prophecy were not 1260 years, but a literal 3 1/2 years, and therefore none of the book of Revelation had any application to the middle ages or the papacy, but to the future, to a period immediately prior to the second coming, hence the name Futurism. A 1591 edition, 1593 edition, and a 1603 edition of his commentary are now online.
FUTURISM
Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation.
In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy. Then, he proposed, the antichrist, a single individual, would:
  • Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.
  • Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
  • Abolish the Christian religion.
  • Deny Jesus Christ.
  • Be received by the Jews.
  • Pretend to be God.
  • Kill the two witnesses of God.
  • Conquer the world.
sound familiar
Yes, we are aware of the SDAs view of the RC Church in Revelation and keeping the Jewish 7th day [Fri-Sat] Sabbath.......poppycock........

SDA Church teaches core doctrine that the RCC is the harlot of babylon and pope is antichrist...
How do we react to a religion based almost entirely on tearing ours down? Can a religion based almost solely on hatred really be considered Christian in nature? They follow the teachings of William Miller, and Ellen White, heretics whose end time predictions failed miserably.

How are Catholics supposed to react to SDA's when they tend to be outright hostile towards Catholics and the Catholic Church?
================
Interview of SDA Pastor Septic Tank Ministry

I conducted this interview myself after seeing this bus parked close to where I work in Seattle. He seemed like a nice man who is very serious about the Pope stealing the Sabbath, etc. My next interview with him will be on the 1844 subject.
Enjoy.
Viddler.com - Prophecy Bus - Uploaded by pythons
Video review of the exterior of the Bus
===================
Martin Luther identifies the Antichrist over 500 years ago!

The quote copied below is from one of Martin Luther's last books. It was titled: "A Prelude by Martin Luther on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church".

Page 536, chapter 3.

"Nevertheless, since few know this glory of baptism and the blessedness of Christian liberty, and cannot know them because of the tyranny of the pope, I for one will walk away from it all and redeem my conscience by bringing this charge against the pope and all his papists: Unless they will abolish their laws and traditions, and restore to Christ's churches their liberty and have it taught among them, they are guilty of all the souls that perish under this miserable captivity, and the papacy is truly the kingdom of Babylon, yes, the kingdom of the real Antichrist! For who is " the man of sin" and "the son of perdition" but he that with his doctrines and his laws increases sins and the perdition of souls in the Church, while he sits in the Church as if he were God? All this the papal tyranny has fulfilled, and more than fulfilled, these many centuries. It has extinguished faith, obscured the sacraments and oppressed the Gospel."
Seventh-day Adventism
Adventist Beliefs
Seventh-day Adventists agree with many Catholic doctrines, including the Trinity, Christ’s divinity, the virgin birth, the atonement, a physical resurrection of the dead, and Christ’s Second Coming. They use a valid form of baptism. They believe in original sin and reject the Evangelical teaching that one can never lose one’s salvation no matter what one does (i.e., they correctly reject “once saved, always saved”).

Unfortunately, they also hold many false and strange doctrines. Among these are the following: (a) the Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon; (b) the pope is the Antichrist; (c) in the last days, Sunday worship will be “the mark of the beast”; (d) there is a future millennium in which the devil will roam the earth while Christians are with Christ in heaven; (e) the soul sleeps between death and resurrection; and (f) on the last day, after a limited period of punishment in hell, the wicked will be annihilated and cease to exist rather than be eternally damned. (For rebuttals of many of these ideas, see the Catholic Answers tracts, The Antichrist, The Hell There Is, Hunting the harlot of Babylon, The harlot of Babylon, and Sabbath or Sunday?)

Adventist Anti-Catholicism
Catholics may suppose that anti-Catholicism is part of Adventism’s radical fringe. Unfortunately, this is untrue. Adventists who are moderate on Catholicism are a minority. Anti-Catholicism characterizes the denomination because it is embraced in White’s “divinely inspired” writings. A few illustrations help indicate the scope of the problem:

“Babylon the Great, the mother of harlots . . . is further declared to be ‘that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.’ Revelation 17:4–6, 18. The power that for so many centuries maintained despotic sway over the monarchs of Christendom is Rome.” (The Great Controversy, 338).

“It is one of the leading doctrines of Romanism that the pope is the visible head of the universal Church of Christ . . . and has been declared infallible. He demands the homage of all men. The same claim urged by Satan in the wilderness of temptation is still urged by him [Satan] through the Church of Rome, and vast numbers are ready to yield him homage” (ibid., 48).
 
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BABerean2

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The issue has nothing to do with rules of English. You are taking the protoevangelium* in Genesis 3:15, and applying that as a literal meaning to Genesis 3:15 and Genesis 3:14 to come up with the faulty idea that Satan has been literally crawling on his belly in the dust ever since the fall of man. What the issue is - is an obvious faulty rationale by you.


The serpent crawling on his belly in the dust of the earth is a symbol of the fact that Satan had already been cast out of heaven in Genesis chapter 3.

Have you ever seen a serpent with wings?


.
 
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Original Happy Camper

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Yes, we are aware of the SDAs view of the RC Church in Revelation and keeping the Jewish 7th day [Fri-Sat] Sabbath.......poppycock........

SDA Church teaches core doctrine that the RCC is the harlot of babylon and pope is antichrist...
'

Yes we do and we are in very good company with the reformers

What Did The Reformers Believe? - Who is the Antichrist


Martin Luther (1483 - 1546)
"nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the church; while he yet sits in the church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny." (Martin Luther, First Principles, pp. 196-197)

John Calvin (1509 - 1564)
"Though it be admitted that Rome was once the mother of all Churches, yet from the time when it began to be the seat of Antichrist it has ceased to be what it was before. Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman Pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt .. I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy." (Institutes of the Christian Religion, Vol.3, p.149)

John Knox (1505 - 1572)
Yea, to speak it in plain words; lest that we submit ourselves to Satan, thinking that we submit ourselves to Jesus Christ, for, as for your Roman kirk, as it is now corrupted, and the authority thereof, whereon stands the hope of your victory, I no more doubt but that it is the synagogue of Satan, and the head thereof, called the pope, to be that man of sin, of whom the apostle speaks." (John Knox, The History of the Reformation of Religion in Scotland, p.65)

Thomas Cranmer (1489 - 1556)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of Antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Works by Cranmer, vol.1, pp.6-7)

The Baptist Confession of Faith (1689)
"The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner; neither can the Pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ." (1689 Baptist Confession of Faith)

John Wesley (1703 - 1791)
"... In many respects, the Pope has an indisputable claim to those titles. He is, in an emphatical sense, the man of sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled, the son of perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers, destroyed innumerable souls, and will himself perish everlastingly. He it is that opposeth himself to the emperor, once his rightful sovereign; and that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped - Commanding angels, and putting kings under his feet, both of whom are called gods in scripture; claiming the highest power, the highest honour; suffering himself, not once only, to be styled God or vice-God. Indeed no less is implied in his ordinary title, "Most Holy Lord," or, "Most Holy Father." So that he sitteth - Enthroned. In the temple of God - Mentioned Rev. xi, 1. Declaring himself that he is God - Claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." (John Wesley, Explanatory Notes Upon The New Testament, p.216)

and many more
 
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Douggg

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The serpent crawling on his belly in the dust of the earth is a symbol of the fact that Satan had already been cast out of heaven in Genesis chapter 3.

Have you ever seen a serpent with wings?


.
Bab2, Satan has a time, times, half time left after he is kicked out of the second heaven in Revelation 12:7-9.

How long has it been since Genesis 3:15? Think about it.
 
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BABerean2

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Bab2, Satan has a time, times, half time left after he is kicked out of the second heaven in Revelation 12:7-9.

How long has it been since Genesis 3:15? Think about it.

Ignore Revelation 12:1-6, and Revelation 11:15-18, and maybe you can make your man-made chart work.

As for the rest of us, we have a whole Bible.


.
 
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Ignore Revelation 12:1-6, and Revelation 11:15-18, and maybe you can make your man-made chart work.

As for the rest of us, we have a whole Bible.


.
Revelation 12:1-5 is historic. My chart is only for the end times, final 7 years.

I do not ignore Revelation 11:15-18. I do not agree with your interpretation of those verses.
 
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