Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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CharismaticLady

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If you are speaking of tongues as evidence, then I agree. We are baptized in the Holy Spirit in order to be in the Body of Christ. This is the rebirth, the restoration of our relationship with the Father. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are a whole different thing. These are gifts to help grow the Body. Unfortunately, some groups wrap these gifts into Soteriology thus causing confusion. Even Christ made it a point that not all those who come in His name with supernatural manifestations are in the Body. It would be possible that He never knew them.
Blessings

I speak in tongues but I agree, tongues are not the "evidence" of being filled with the Holy Spirit. A supernaturally changed life that has power over sin is the "evidence."

And, yes, 1 Corinthian 12 gifts are for growing the Church, and are for the profit of all, BUT Mark 16:16-18 are for us individually and are part of our armor of God. They are for believers, not just in Christ, but today in the gifts. There has been much damning heresies about the gifts today being demonic for most to be open to receiving them. God knows that, and won't force them on to his children. That saddens me, because there are holes in their armor.
 
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Albion

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Now the list consists of several gifts. We can not puck out the one's we are not comfortable with as all of these are gifted by the Holy Spirit. If wisdom exists today then miracles do too. If knowledge exists today then tongues do as well. All from the same Spirit for the use in the Body of Christ.
Agree. And yet it's only tongues-speaking, which is the most easily imitated of the various "gifts," that is the be-all and end-all for those who are into this sort of thing. It's not hard to figure out why that is.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Paul emphasises being filled with the Holy Spirit but only refers to the baptism of the Holy Spirit in connection with the gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor. 12.

In Romans 8 Paul shows that the Holy Spirit is for us fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law.
 
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rockytopva

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And to remind everyone the Apostle Paul said....

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

However he did not intend for speaking in tongues to dominate a Christian church service, and had to address things that were out of order.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Agree. And yet it's only tongues-speaking, which is the most easily imitated of the various "gifts," that is the be-all and end-all for those who are into this sort of thing. It's not hard to figure out why that is.

Though I speak in tongues, I can identify fake tongues speaking. But I can also identify the true gift. One rule is for sure; you can only speak in true tongues if you are a born again of the Spirit Christian. Those who have never repented and are Christians in name only but continue to sin, speak fake tongues, or none at all. But all true Christians have the authorization, if not the will.
 
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mark kennedy

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You need to prove from scripture where I'm wrong. Until then it's only your opinion.
I don't think so, you made the positive statement and failed to make a positive defense. That's not going to get you a sound topical exposition, your basing the whole thing on a false assumption that it's isolated to tongues and prophecy which is simply indefensible. Paul deals with a long list of gifts of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor. 12, before dealing with tongues and prophecy at length. You need to defend your core assumption or drop it, which leaves you with little if anything to defend your actual argument.
 
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mark kennedy

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In Romans 8 Paul shows that the Holy Spirit is for us fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law.
Yes he does, technically we are called to not to walk according to the the Law of sin and death. The Holy Spirit further has the sole responsibility of revealing to us that we have been adopted as children of God. If you don't hear it from him you can it never happened or your atill carnal.
 
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BCsenior

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We are baptized in the Holy Spirit in order to be in the Body of Christ.
This is the rebirth, the restoration of our relationship with the Father.
Sorry, you are incorrect ... I guess I'll have to post the truth in a new thread.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Yes he does, technically we are called to not to walk according to the the Law of sin and death. The Holy Spirit further has the sole responsibility of revealing to us that we have been adopted as children of God. If you don't hear it from him you can it never happened or your atill carnal.

I agree. Those who have the Holy Spirit and find themselves no longer a slave to sin - a sinner - are powerful children of God.

John 8:34-36. 1 John 3:1-3
 
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mark kennedy

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Agree. And yet it's only tongues-speaking, which is the most easily imitated of the various "gifts," that is the be-all and end-all for those who are into this sort of thing. It's not hard to figure out why that is.
Ecstacies were pretty common in the Hellenistic world, New Testament tongues was reqular human languages. You can't fake the genuine article.
 
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Charlie24

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Found it! I take it back - you ARE a seeker of Truth, even in the face of your denomination. I applaud you. I was right about you to begin with. :clap:

I watched Jimmy Swaggart preach on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with all his points some years ago, and began to study if it was true. I have known for many years the Baptist view. I believe Mr. Swaggart is right on. His points seem to me rock solid.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Sorry, you are incorrect ... I guess I'll have to post the truth in a new thread.

BC you have never answered my question for you. I'll ask it a new way. What is the evidence of a newly born again of the Spirit Christian. You believe tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. When are we given power over sin? Then, or when we first come to Christ.
 
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mark kennedy

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I agree. Those who have the Holy Spirit and find themselves no longer a slave to sin - a sinner - are powerful children of God.

John 8:34-36. 1 John 3:1-3
Very true, Paul argues that when sin increased grace did much more increase. Paul says it was slanderously reported Paul taught, let us sin might increase. Paul responds, their condemnation is justly deserved.

Ever notice the strongest ministers start out the worst of sinners? Paul is certainly a prime example of that.
 
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Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands

Then why didn't Paul spend more time performing baptisms? 1 Corinthians 1:14-15

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority.

Like posters have already mentioned, there is no difference between being Born Again and Holy Spirit baptism. God does what He wants and sends the Spirit to whom He desires. God doesnt need human hands to baptize anyone. It happens at His will John 3:8
 
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mark kennedy

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And to remind everyone the Apostle Paul said....

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

However he did not intend for speaking in tongues to dominate a Christian church service, and had to address things that were out of order.
Right, and he addresses tongues in 1 Cor. 14 for that reason.
 
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dqhall

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Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

Understanding the Baptism with the Holy Spirit in Acts is difficult. But I found the keys are the Ethiopian Eunuch Acts 8:27 and the Samarians Acts 8:5. In essence, all had the Holy Spirit but only the Samarians had the Baptism with the Holy Spirit.

These received the gift of the Holy Spirit according to Peter in Acts 2:28 just as we do today. But the Samarians also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands which the Eunuch did not.

On Pentecost God baptized the 12 Apostles with the Holy Spirit who also spoke in tongues. According to Acts 2:38 the eunuch and the Samarians had the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But Philip could not provide the baptism of the Holy Spirit for either. Acts reveals that beyond the two outpourings, only the Apostles through the laying on of their hands could baptize people in the Holy Spirit. It was the proof of apostleship Hebrews 2:4.

When the Apostles visited the Samarian converts, they laid their hands on them baptizing them in the Holy Spirit. But this was not the case with the Eunuch. It says he went on his way rejoicing after Philip baptized him in water.

So the Samarians and the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit through Philip’s preaching. But only the Samarians received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through the Apostles’ hands.

About 7 years later, God poured out the Holy Spirit on the gentiles at Cornelius’ house which resulted in their speaking in tongues just as the Apostles did at Pentecost.

Scripture doesn’t mention the 3000 converts on the day of Pentecost as baptized with the Holy Spirit. Nor the 5,000 converts days later. But we might assume those whom the Apostles baptized in water also received the baptism with the Holy Spirit through their hands. But anyone baptized by someone other than an apostle would have been like the Eunuch who received only the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Later, Paul preached to the disciples at Ephesus Acts 19:1. These like the Eunuch received the gift of the Holy Spirit. But they also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit through the apostle’s hands the same way the Samarians did.

The Baptism with the Holy Spirit provided God’s word through tongues and prophecy until the New Testament canon became complete. How do we know this? Paul says scripture thoroughly equips us 2 Timothy 3:17. Paul said tongues and prophecy provided only partial knowledge 1 Corinthians 13:9. So it makes sense scripture replaced them when completed.

Beyond Acts, the Corinthians no doubt received the Baptism with the Holy Spirit through Paul’s hands. And Paul mentioned he wanted to visit the Romans to give spiritual gifts to them too Romans 1:11. Paul mentions laying his hands on Timothy who also received a gift 2 Timothy 1:6.

So we can say scripture directly supports the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for those ministered to by an apostle. That it was not for all. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit passed into history with the rest of the apostles Hebrews 2:4 because only they provided it as a sign of their authority. And that scripture replaced the fragmentary gifts of tongues and prophecy with the completed revelation. And we can confidently say believers from Pentecost on have the gift of Holy Spirit according to Acts 2:38, but not the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. Just as the Eunuch and believers since then.
John wore a garment of camel hair. He ate honey and grasshoppers. He taught about God. He baptized people as a sign of their cleanness. John baptized Jesus in the Jordan River. As Jesus rose out of the water, the Holy Spirit descended upon him. Jesus began his public ministry.

The Holy Spirit is active today. Many have testified how God changed their lives for the better. Whether you call it being born again or baptized by the Holy Spirit, God’s ministry continues. God is true. Follow the truth wherever it will lead.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Very true, Paul argues that when sin increased grace did much more increase. Paul says it was slanderously reported Paul taught, let us sin might increase. Paul responds, their condemnation is justly deserved.

Ever notice the strongest ministers start out the worst of sinners? Paul is certainly a prime example of that.

What I find hysterical is that many teach that Paul, who wrote we are dead to sin, "struggled with sin" in Romans 7. NO! That was those who knew the law but still had the sin nature from Adam to contend with. That sinful nature of Satan is what Jesus came to destroy, and make us reborn with a divine nature! What I think is those who teach that are the ones still struggling with sin and want to justify it.
 
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mark kennedy

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What I find hysterical is that many teach that Paul, who wrote we are dead to sin, "struggled with sin" in Romans 7. NO! That was those who knew the law but still had the sin nature from Adam to contend with. That sinful nature of Satan is what Jesus came to destroy, and make us reborn with a divine nature! What I think is those who teach that are the ones still struggling with sin and want to justify it.
Ok CL, let's slow down a little. When I get booged down like this I like to step back and enjoy the big picture a minute. In Rom. 3:21,22 we learned that now the righteousness of God has been revealed in Christ apart from the Law. In Romans 6:11 we are told to count (consider, reckon) ourselves dead to sin. Chapter 7 is simply a discussion of the Law, thousands of years under it and it couldn't provide righteousness. Chapter 8 finally puts the Law and transitions to the covenant Jews and Gentiles have entered into together.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Ok CL, let's slow down a little. When I get booged down like this I like to step back and enjoy the big picture a minute. In Rom. 3:21,22 we learned that now the righteousness of God has been revealed in Christ apart from the Law. In Romans 6:11 we are told to count (consider, reckon) ourselves dead to sin. Chapter 7 is simply a discussion of the Law, thousands of years under it and it couldn't provide righteousness. Chapter 8 finally puts the Law and transitions to the covenant Jews and Gentiles have entered into together.

The Law was the ministry of death. As Romans 7:13 says it was the sin nature that was at fault, not the law. The whole difference between the Old Testament of Law, and the New Testament is the Holy Spirit.
 
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