Who is responsible for our sanctification?

Wordkeeper

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Unfortunately, nothing endures and propagates quite like bad theology”

He got that part right. He should have been quiet.
But did you get the part, where he says grace never was free in the ANE?

And if you did, why would you want him to keep quiet, hide the truth?
 
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Hammster

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But did you get the part, where he says grace never was free in the ANE?

And if you did, why would you want him to keep quiet, hide the truth?
That nonsense? Yes. I got it.
 
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ChicanaRose

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I ask you AGAIN, if a genuine believer turns away to follow another gospel, for example Buddhism, Hinduism, Gnosticism, etc. is he still saved? YES or NO?

Hello. I found this article very helpful, FYI.

"If it is possible to lose your salvation, then what must you do in order to keep it? I've asked this question many times of those who deny eternal security and have received different responses. But they all, essentially, can be categorized into two areas: "Remain faithful," and "Be obedient." Whichever position is taken, both are dependent upon man's faithfulness and ability..."

If you can lose your salvation, then what must you do to keep it? | CARM.org
 
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Oldmantook

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Hello. I found this article very helpful, FYI.

"If it is possible to lose your salvation, then what must you do in order to keep it? I've asked this question many times of those who deny eternal security and have received different responses. But they all, essentially, can be categorized into two areas: "Remain faithful," and "Be obedient." Whichever position is taken, both are dependent upon man's faithfulness and ability..."

If you can lose your salvation, then what must you do to keep it? | CARM.org
Study the scriptures for yourself. Are you not aware of the difference between occasional sin which is forgiveable since we all sin and habitual sin which is not forgiveable sin it evidences an unrepentant life? I can elaborate if you wish.
 
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ChicanaRose

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Are you not aware of the difference between occasional sin which is forgiveable since we all sin and habitual sin which is not forgiveable sin it evidences an unrepentant life? I can elaborate if you wish.

Yes, I am aware but perhaps an unrepentant life means someone is not yet truly saved (as opposed to being saved and losing the salvation).

But please feel free to elaborate. Thank you.
 
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Oldmantook

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I think you are not actually comprehending what an argument from silence is. You made the conclusion that they lost their salvation, even though it doesn’t say that. There is an absence of statement.

As to your question, it’s an impossibility.
That is why I asked what turning away from the gospel means? Does it not mean apostatize? Yes or no. Why do you think Paul was "amazed?" If you turn away from the gospel for follow another religion are you still saved? Yes or no. If you take the mark of the beast, are you still saved? Yes or no. Simple questions.
 
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Oldmantook

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Yes, I am aware but perhaps an unrepentant life means someone is not yet truly saved (as opposed to being saved and losing the salvation).

But please feel free to elaborate. Thank you.
Thanks for your kind reply. Yes it is certainly possible that some who live an unrepentant lifestyle are/were never believers never believers in the first place. However, it not logical to conclude that all who keep sinning or fall away, were never believers in the first place. That would be like saying since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens lay brown eggs which of course is not true.

Notice what 1 John 1:7 states about the cleansing/forgiveness of sin. It states IF we are walking in the light....The condition of walking in the light must be present in the believer's life in order for the blood of Jesus to be efficacious in cleansing sin. We all sin since no one is without sin (1 Jn 1:8,10). So if we are walking in the light, when we occasionally sin, we confess/repent and the blood of Jesus cleanses us.
However, the same cannot be said for the believer who practices sin. A believer who habitually sins walks in darkness and does not even have fellowship with God, 1 John 1:6. A believer who practices sin is of the devil. "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil (1 Jn 3:8).
For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (Rom 8:13).

Thus the difference between occasional sin, which is forgiveable and habitual sin, which is not forgiveable unless one repents.
 
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Oldmantook

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Jesus says why that cant happen, one of His sheep following another.
John 10
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

Lots of people still dont understand Jesus's words.
You must unlearn what you have learned.
His sheep flee from and they dont hear strange voices, meaning they wont follow a stranger, they will give them no heed.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
May I suggest that you unlearn what you learned? The sheep do not always listen and obey. Jesus taught that some sheep get lost and are sinners.
Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep. I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. Lk 15:3-7
This one sheep was originally part of the other 99 who needed no repentance. Jesus refers to this lost sheep as a sinner who needed to repent in order to be restored the rest of the righteous sheep who do not need to repent.
 
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Hammster

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That is why I asked what turning away from the gospel means? Does it not mean apostatize? Yes or no. Why do you think Paul was "amazed?" If you turn away from the gospel for follow another religion are you still saved? Yes or no. If you take the mark of the beast, are you still saved? Yes or no. Simple questions.
Paul’s issue was that works were added to the gospel. So they thought that they had to do something to stay saved. Paul preached faith alone in Christ alone. He preached the gospel, that it was Christ’s work on the cross, and belief in that, that saved. So he was amazed that they started following false teachers that added works to justification.

This doesn’t mean that they lost their salvation since Paul didn’t believe that was possible. But it does mean that they weren’t living as they should.
 
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Hammster

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May I suggest that you unlearn what you learned? The sheep do not always listen and obey. Jesus taught that some sheep get lost and are sinners.
Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep. I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. Lk 15:3-7
This one sheep was originally part of the other 99 who needed no repentance. Jesus refers to this lost sheep as a sinner who needed to repent in order to be restored the rest of the righteous sheep who do not need to repent.
And what did the shepherd do? He went and brought the lost sheep back. Problem solved.
 
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renniks

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God is love. But He’s not my gentle lover. That’s creepy.
Not according to God.
Well, John Piper disagrees with you. He sees song of songs of an allegory of Jesus' love for the church. He even goes too far as to say:
He gave us sex to show us something of his love.
 
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Wordkeeper

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He didn’t know him before that?
Apparently, even God takes time to "learn" things:

Genesis 22
12He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."
 
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Wordkeeper

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That nonsense? Yes. I got it.
Andrew is a highly qualified lexicographer, with published works. It isn't nonsense because you say so. Citations with page numbers of Josephus's writings (The Jewish Wars) can be given to support his views. If you want to say he is wrong, point out the errors.
 
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Hammster

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Apparently, even God takes time to "learn" things:

Genesis 22
12He said, "Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me."
Well, they say that open theism is the natural result of Arminianism/synergism. I guess that’s true.
 
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Hammster

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Andrew is a highly qualified lexicographer, with published works. It isn't nonsense because you say so. Citations with page numbers of Josephus's writings (The Jewish Wars) can be given to support his views. If you want to say he is wrong, point out the errors.
The weight of history is against him.
 
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Oldmantook

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Paul’s issue was that works were added to the gospel. So they thought that they had to do something to stay saved. Paul preached faith alone in Christ alone. He preached the gospel, that it was Christ’s work on the cross, and belief in that, that saved. So he was amazed that they started following false teachers that added works to justification.

This doesn’t mean that they lost their salvation since Paul didn’t believe that was possible. But it does mean that they weren’t living as they should.
Paul believed: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:13
James believed: "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." Js 5:19-20

Both Paul and James wrote that habitual sin and wandering from the truth results in spiritual death.
 
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Hammster

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Paul believed: "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live." Rom 8:13
James believed: "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." Js 5:19-20

Both Paul and James wrote that habitual sin and wandering from the truth results in spiritual death.
It would help if you weren’t selective with your verses and took into consideration all of what Paul wrote in Galatians and Romans, you’d never come to this conclusion.
 
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Oldmantook

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It would help if you weren’t selective with your verses and took into consideration all of what Paul wrote in Galatians and Romans, you’d never come to this conclusion.
Yet you have no adequate answer to the verses I selected? Why is that? You must be able to adequately defend your doctrine with those verses which appear to contradict with your held belief. That is precisely why I selected them. And yet you have not addressed them.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Yet you have no adequate answer to the verses I selected? Why is that? You must be able to adequately defend your doctrine with those verses which appear to contradict with your held belief. That is precisely why I selected them. And yet you have not addressed them.

Anyone living in habitual unrepentant unremorseful happy sin is unsaved, regardless of their church attendance or how they care to label themselves.

They may later become saved, but uncaring habitual sin is the mark of the unsaved.
 
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