American gold medalist kneels during national anthem at the Pan Am Games

renniks said:

No, but to claim we don't have freedom is absurd.

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Some people have not enjoyed the level of freedom that you have. To deny that fact is absurd.

wing2000 said:

Some people have not enjoyed the level of freedom that you have. To deny that fact is absurd.

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How do you know what level of freedom I have? Are you assuming my ancestors did not suffer discrimination and slavery in America? What rights are denied any race or category of people here today?

renniks said:

How do you know what level of freedom I have? Are you assuming my ancestors did not suffer discrimination and slavery in America? What rights are denied any race or category of people here today?

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I don't. But based on your response, it seemed to be a reasonable assumption.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Or keep guns away from crazy people. Since learning to shoot back is proven to be crap

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How do you propose to do that? Do you have a crystal ball that will tell you who is going to go crazy? And learning to shoot back is crap? Legal gun owners defend themselves all the time, often without having to actually fire a shot.

wing2000 said:

I don't. But based on your response, it seemed to be a reasonable assumption.

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Slavery, (often by indentured servanthood) and discrimination was not limited to one race.

renniks said:

I'm self employed. No, I do not recite the pledge everyday, but American pride needs to be taught in our schools. Pride in the concepts this country was founded on, despite all our flaws, is part of what united us.

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One of the concepts on which this country was founded was the validity of armed revolt against a government you find oppressive. These athletes believe our government to be doing things that are oppressive. You should be thankful that all they're doing is taking a knee during a song instead of actually leading the armed insurrection that so many 2A-ers seem to fantasize over.

BigDaddy4 said:

Kaepernick used his work place to protest a personal issue that had nothing to do with his working conditions. That was "not the right place".

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Please don't pretend as if you care about whether or not Kap or these other athletes were adhering to some standard of workplace conduct. That's a red herring if ever I've seen one.

The "right place" to conduct protests like this is in places where it is legally permissible.

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Newsflash - that sort of protest is legally permissible everywhere.

iluvatar5150 said:

Please don't pretend as if you care about whether or not Kap or these other athletes were adhering to some standard of workplace conduct. That's a red herring if ever I've seen one.

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Please don't pretend to think you know what I care about. You're not very good at it.

iluvatar5150 said:

Newsflash - that sort of protest is legally permissible everywhere.

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Bigger newsflash - actually, no it's not. You need to brush up on your First Amendment rights. They do not cover the private sector workplace, of which Kap and these athletes were a part of.

renniks said:

How do you propose to do that? Do you have a crystal ball that will tell you who is going to go crazy? And learning to shoot back is crap? Legal gun owners defend themselves all the time, often without having to actually fire a shot.

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Make sure everyone ,that own guns have mental evaluations done every few months. We can do better. But the Conservatives complain about gun control taking their precious guns away. And no, Texas has open carry gun laws and not one person used a gun to try to save their life. In the El Paso shooting.

renniks said:

Slavery, (often by indentured servanthood) and discrimination was not limited to one race.

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In America Indians were also slaves. Who else were slaves by white men in America?

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

Make sure everyone ,that own guns have mental evaluations done every few months. We can do better. But the Conservatives complain about gun control taking their precious guns away. And no, Texas has open carry gun laws and not one person used a gun to try to save their life. In the El Paso shooting.

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Just because it didn't happen in El Paso doesn't mean it doesn't happen... It happens frequently.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

In America Indians were also slaves. Who else were slaves by white men in America?

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Pick a race, and chances are they were enslaved. Indentured servants were basically slaves.

BigDaddy4 said:

Please don't pretend to think you know what I care about. You're not very good at it.

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Do you spend much time fretting over athletes who show up late to workouts or who swear at refs?

Bigger newsflash - actually, no it's not. You need to brush up on your First Amendment rights. They do not cover the private sector workplace, of which Kap and these athletes were a part of.

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Do you even know what you're saying? "Legally permissible" refers to an act being allowed by law - or, to put it another way, to it not being prohibited by a law. There is no law requiring people to stand during the anthem or prohibiting them from kneeling or staging other sort of protest during it. Such a law would almost certainly run afoul of the first amendment.

Workplaces may institute policies regarding employee conduct during the playing of the anthem, but that has no bearing on whether or not that conduct is "legally permissible". I'm not allowed to call criticize my company's products on Twitter or call my boss a "poopyhead" in the middle of a meeting, but neither of those are legally prohibited.

IIRC (and I may not), the NFL didn't have a policy regarding the anthem when the protests first started and they were somewhat hampered in their efforts to establish one because of the need to negotiate with the players' union.

BigDaddy4 said:

Please don't pretend to think you know what I care about. You're not very good at it.

Bigger newsflash - actually, no it's not. You need to brush up on your First Amendment rights. They do not cover the private sector workplace, of which Kap and these athletes were a part of.

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Then it's between them and their workplace, not a matter of law.

SummerMadness said:

The answer full of obfuscation because we all know that in the history of the United States, African Americans were the primary target of racial discrimination. I would include Native Americans, but they were more so targets of genocide. Alluding to vague conceptions of slavery during random eras is meant to deny and obscure the continued legacy of slavery still seen in the United States (segregation, housing discrimination, employment discrimination, education disparities, etc., are all part of that legacy).

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It's not meant to deny anything, it's just a historical fact.

SummerMadness said:

You don't care about the legality, that's why there are folks that supported the illegal actions of Cliven Bundy and are angry at these athletes. John Carlos, Tommie Smith and Peter Norman also violated rules, but talking about those rules because you wish to ignore the civil rights issues they were championing is simply a distraction.

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So you are supposing to know what I care about, too?

iluvatar5150 said:

Do you spend much time fretting over athletes who show up late to workouts or who swear at refs?

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Not really on topic is it?

iluvatar5150 said:

Do you even know what you're saying?

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I do. However, I do not think you do.

iluvatar5150 said:

"Legally permissible" refers to an act being allowed by law - or, to put it another way, to it not being prohibited by a law. There is no law requiring people to stand during the anthem or prohibiting them from kneeling or staging other sort of protest during it. Such a law would almost certainly run afoul of the first amendment.

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Well, the Constitution does not allow for free speech in the private sector, so I'll go with that.

If you want to go down the "legally permissible" path, neither is there a law or legal right to protest, either in public or private sector. So, I guess you're wrong on both accounts. It's okay if you want to stop there and move on.

Speedwell said:

Then it's between them and their workplace, not a matter of law.

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Huh? Because it happened in the workplace, it absolutely is a matter of law. The employer has the legal right to terminate the employee.