Who is responsible for our sanctification?

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
There is no helpful information here regarding who is responsible for our sanctification.

Romans 8
29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified

I think this part is helpful.

Those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son,

Wordkeeper · Aug 15, 2019

Aabbie James said:
So, to the general question, you don't recognize the difference then...

Who is responsible for our sanctification?

We are.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
We are.

It’s sad that so many Christians today believe this. They think that they have enough goodness in them to make them holier.

Wordkeeper · Aug 15, 2019

Hammster said:
I think this part is helpful.

Those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son,

God heard Cornelius. He waited for the Body of Christ to be formed. He drew Cornelius to Christ. His preplanned Way to be sanctified.

That's what the verse says about sanctification.

fhansen · Aug 15, 2019

Hammster said:
You are having a different discussion that I am. I guess that’s the problem with following Reformed Theology. Everybody assumes that the discussion is about election, etc.

IDK. Anyway this is what started our discussion on this matter:

fhansen said:
From Eden on, God does not override the human will. Instead He takes the initiative; He coaxes and draws it into the light, but we can still prefer darkness.

Seems pretty much to have do with salvation/election, since that's His purpose. The question here is mainly a matter of whether or not our wills play a role, whether or not God allows us to go our own way, to accept or oppose His will.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
God heard Cornelius. He waited for the Body of Christ to be formed. He drew Cornelius to Christ. His preplanned Way to be sanctified.

That's what the verse says about sanctification.

What does the text say that the Holy Spirit was doing?

Wordkeeper · Aug 15, 2019

Hammster said:
It’s sad that so many Christians today believe this. They think that they have enough goodness in them to make them holier.

Even grace requires faith, loyal responses.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

fhansen said:
IDK. Anyway this is what started our discussion on this matter:

Seems pretty much to have do with salvation/election, since that's His purpose. The question here is mainly a matter of whether or not our wills play a role.

The thread isn’t about election. It’s about sanctification.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
Even grace requires faith, loyal responses.

No it doesn’t. Grace requires nothing. If it did, it wouldn’t be grace.

Wordkeeper · Aug 15, 2019

Hammster said:
What does the text say that the Holy Spirit was doing?

Which text?

Wordkeeper · Aug 15, 2019

Hammster said:
No it doesn’t. Grace requires nothing. If it did, it wouldn’t be grace.

Eph 2:8 says there is a salvation Covenant in force for Gentiles, salvation by grace through faith.

fhansen · Aug 15, 2019

Hammster said:
The thread isn’t about election. It’s about sanctification.

Ok, one issue here is that, for a Catholic, justification and sanctification are inseparable. One remains justified-saved-as he's being sanctified, as he's expected to "invest" and grow in grace and righteousness given.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
Which text?

In the story of Cornelius.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
Eph 2:8 says there is a salvation Covenant in force for Gentiles, salvation by grace through faith.

We are saved by grace.

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
— Ephesians 2:4-5

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

fhansen said:
Ok, one issue here is that, for a Catholic, justification and sanctification are inseparable. One remains justified-saved-as he's being sanctified, as he's expected to "invest" and grow in grace and righteousness given.

What does God do?

fhansen · Aug 15, 2019

God does the sanctifying. And he won't do it without our cooperation. He enables us, he gives us the grace to accomplish it, but we can still resist and refuse

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

fhansen said:
God does the sanctifying. And he won't do it without our cooperation. He enables us, he gives us the grace to accomplish it, but we can still resist that refuse

So the only change in us is from us? We just act better?

Oldmantook · Aug 15, 2019

Hammster said:
You’re the one making the argument from silence. I actually addressed the text in three points. One, he call God “our God”. Two, he NEVER said that they lost their salvation. Three, he called them brethren.

That’s not silence.

Apparently, you do not even understand what an argument from silence consists of. You wrote: "It never says that they lost their salvation." That is precisely an argument from silence. Instead of protesting and trying to defend yourself, I suggest you study logic and logical fallacies.

Hammster · Aug 15, 2019

Oldmantook said:
Apparently, you do not even understand what an argument from silence consists of. You wrote: "It never says that they lost their salvation." That is precisely an argument from silence. Instead of protesting and trying to defend yourself, I suggest you study logic and logical fallacies.

So pointing out that a verse doesn’t say what you claim it says is an argument from silence?

ChicanaRose · Aug 15, 2019

fhansen said:
God does the sanctifying. And he won't do it without our cooperation. He enables us, he gives us the grace to accomplish it, but we can still resist and refuse

"The idea is that God’s grace is so powerful that it has the capacity to overcome our natural resistance to it. It is not that the Holy Spirit drags people kicking and screaming to Christ against their wills. The Holy Spirit changes the inclination and disposition of our wills, so that whereas we were previously unwilling to embrace Christ, now we are willing, and more than willing."
TULIP and Reformed Theology: Irresistible Grace

Who is responsible for our sanctification?

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