Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

Contenders Edge said:

Futurism/Premillennialism at least pay attention to context, detail, and take the totality of scripture into account when it comes to prophecy. Preterism does not.

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You seem to be unaware that Christ was a partial-Preterist in the Olivet Discourse.
Unless the Jewish temple is still standing, He had to be.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (See also Luke 19:41-44.)
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of this verse happened in 70 AD. See also Luke 19:41-44.)

The verses that follow will occur at the future Second Coming of Christ, after the "times of the Gentiles" has been fulfilled.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

jgr said:

You're the one who claimed "But it does not exist everywhere in every person", not me.

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I was not referencing genes in general, just the genes passed down from the line of Isaac and Jacob. I was saying that their particular bloodline does not exist in everyone. Perhaps you should have rephrased your question.

jgr said:

My whole premise has been that only faith and obedience identify God's Chosen People (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 5:9), that He has in complete faithfulness and integrity kept all of His promises through His Son (2 Corinthians 1:20), and that genetics are irrelevant to Him, of which genetic ubiquity is a cogent confirmation.

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Christ still has to fulfill every promise exactly as given and foretold and that includes land restoration to the people of Israel and the preservation of the nation and the people, because if He doesn’t, He is not fulfilling the scriptures like He said that He came to do. (Mt. 5:17)

jgr said:

In His mercy, God continues to preserve us all without genetic distinction, Christian and non-Christian alike, with the vast majority of us in unbelief but still in our national homelands which God has given us. Why do you think that is?

Because:

2 Peter 3
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

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Granted that, but no other nation has been guaranteed everlasting existence like Israel has (Jer. 5:10, 18, 30:11 Am. 9:8) and no other people have been guaranteed to persist like Israel has. (Jer. 31:35-37, 33:20-26, Mal. 3:6) which is why if He carries through on His promises to the nation of Israel, we can be sure He will do the same for us, His Church.

Contenders Edge said:

The latter is clearly observed and proven before a name was even given to it.

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It is not fully proven empirically, because its infinitude of variations precludes such provability. But there are enough variations which have been proven to establish it justifiably as law.

Contenders Edge said:

The other has not been proven but is based upon sources whose content you misapplied and misrepresented.

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The number of occurrences which prove ubiquity empirically grows daily, and will forseeably reach the level, as with the law of gravity, which justifies its recognition as established fact.

jgr said:

Israel's mixing events began with Israel's formation (Genesis 17:12), and never ceased, but only increased, in the ensuing millennia to this day.

As a result of these innumerable mixing events over the millennia, Abraham's genome is ubiquitous, as are the genomes of all of our qualifying ancestors beginning with Adam and Eve.

Scripture's final admonitions regarding genealogy (1 Timothy 1:4; Titus 3:9) contemplate the inexorable progression of, and culmination in, Abrahamic genetic ubiquity. And it is a fitting culmination and confirmation, complementing Scripture's declarations in the spiritual realm (John 10:16; Romans 2:28,29; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:14).

Click to expand...

jgr said:

Israel's mixing events began with Israel's formation (Genesis 17:12), and never ceased, but only increased, in the ensuing millennia to this day. As a result of these innumerable mixing events over the millennia, Abraham's genome is ubiquitous, as are the genomes of all of our qualifying ancestors beginning with Adam and Eve.

Click to expand...

No, Israel's mixing events did not begin with Israel's formation. Rather Israel was formed, arguably, by a mixing of preceding bloodlines and been kept a distinct bloodline ever since. And while there is no denying that Jews and Gentiles have inter-married and do intermarry, take into consideration that Gentiles have immensely outnumbered Jews and this in and of itself prevents the Abrahamic bloodline from being passed down to all of humanity. The more Gentiles there are, the more able they will continue to marry within Gentile bloodlines and the less likely that they will marry into a Jewish bloodline.

Take also into consideration the religious, cultural, and prejudicial barriers that have also placed limits on inter-marriage between Jews and Gentiles.

jgr said:

Scripture's final admonitions regarding genealogy (1 Timothy 1:4; Titus 3:9) contemplate the inexorable progression of, and culmination in, Abrahamic genetic ubiquity. And it is a fitting culmination and confirmation, complementing Scripture's declarations in the spiritual realm (John 10:16; Romans 2:28,29; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:14).

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The genealogies in question likely involved more than just Jewish genealogies but either way, that admonition was directed towards debates and divisions over matters of no doctrinal consequence. We do not even know the details of the genealogies in question and whether they prove anything.
Therefore, you cannot say that they contemplate anything having to do with genetic ubiquity.

The following passages you cited do not deny the distinctiveness of the Jewish bloodline. Romans 2:28-29 still acknowledges it, yet also stating that being Jewish is not what saves a person. It is Jesus who saves both Jew and Gentile alike. The focus of the rest of those passages are focused solely upon our relationship with Christ and which apply to both Jew and Gentile alike in Christ.

The bloodline of a people does not change or disappear upon receiving Christ. Their sin, however, does and it is the spiritual transformation that we all experience in Christ that makes us one.

jgr said:

It is not fully proven empirically, because its infinitude of variations precludes such provability. But there are enough variations which have been proven to establish it justifiably as law.



The number of occurrences which prove ubiquity empirically grows daily, and will forseeably reach the level, as with the law of gravity, which justifies its recognition as established fact.

Click to expand...

jgr said:

It is not fully proven empirically, because its infinitude of variations precludes such provability. But there are enough variations which have been proven to establish it justifiably as law.

Click to expand...

Which means the rest does not really matter.

jgr said:

The number of occurrences which prove ubiquity empirically grows daily, and will forseeably reach the level, as with the law of gravity, which justifies its recognition as established fact.

Click to expand...

In application to humanity in general, I would agree. It demonstrates that we are all descended from Adam and Eve and not apes. But if you attempt to apply this to a specific ethnic group in relation to the rest of mankind, the mixing rates are limited due to various factors and for some ethnic groups, the mixing rate is more limited than for others.

Contenders Edge said:

No, Israel's mixing events did not begin with Israel's formation. Rather Israel was formed, arguably, by a mixing of preceding bloodlines and been kept a distinct bloodline ever since. And while there is no denying that Jews and Gentiles have inter-married and do intermarry, take into consideration that Gentiles have immensely outnumbered Jews and this in and of itself prevents the Abrahamic bloodline from being passed down to all of humanity. The more Gentiles there are, the more able they will continue to marry within Gentile bloodlines and the less likely that they will marry into a Jewish bloodline.

Take also into consideration the religious, cultural, and prejudicial barriers that have also placed limits on inter-marriage between Jews and Gentiles.

Click to expand...

Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

What does "not of thy seed" at Israel's formation mean?


Brother BAB2 has frequently posted this. These are Irish, observably not Jewish (their noses disqualify them).

Yet testing shows them to be Jewishly ubiquitized.

They've been mixed.

They are representative of mixing events over the millennia resulting in ubiquity today.

BABerean2 said:

You seem to have a misunderstanding of the fact that all of the descendants of Abraham and Sarah, are technically not "Jews", since Judah was only one of the twelve tribes. In the verse below Paul reveals that he was from the tribe of Benjamin.

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There is no doubt that the people of Judah were first called Jews due to being descended from Judah (2 Ki. 16:6) but all of the Israelites were later called Jews as recorded in Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther and they have been called Jews ever since.

BABerean2 said:

The Northern tribes were carried off into captivity hundreds of years before the time of Christ, and their Abrahamic DNA was intermixed with that of other people groups from Asia, and Europe. It would be almost impossible for you to have a European ancestor and not have some of Abraham's DNA.
Therefore, modern peoples are much more likely to be a descendant of Abraham and Sarah, as compared to the tribe of Judah.

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All we know is that the Northern Kingdom was taken into captivity by Assyria, but there is no telling where they went on from there or when from that point on unless we study the history of their dispersion. While it cannot be denied that they did intermarry with people of the nations to which they were driven to a certain extent, there is no telling how frequently this occurred but the frequency of intermarriage would have had its limits due to religious, cultural, and prejudicial barriers as well as the number of Jews in each nation in comparison to the people of the nations throughout which they were dispersed.

Because of these factors, it is a far-fetched and preposterous notion to say that virtually every Asian or European is of Israelite descent.

It must also be noted that not all of the people of the Northern Kingdom were taken out of their land as made clear by the following scriptures: 2 Chr. 10:17, 11:13-14, 15:8-9, 30:5-6, 10-11, 18

BABerean2 said:

You are attempting to promote some form of Dual Covenant Theology by ignoring the fact that the most important genealogy in the Bible is found below. After His birth, no other genealogies matter, based on Galatians 3:16-29, and Titus 3:9.

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Does the promotion of an unchanging (Mal. 3:6) faithful promise-keeping God (Heb. 10:23) qualify as promoting of a dual covenant theology? Does that require the dismissal of lineage through which Christ came? Is defending the integrity of God to argue over useless genealogies?

BABerean2 said:

You asked for proof from the Bible that we are correct.
That proof is found in the Samaritans, who were considered inferior by many of the Jews of Jesus time, because they were of mixed race. They were descendants of Abraham, and Sarah through the tribes of Ephraim, and Manasseh, who were the offspring of Joseph. See the link below.

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That is not the issue surrounding the topic of this thread nor is that one of the issues being debated by either Preterists or Premil/futurists. We know the Samaritans existed at some time in history. As far as anyone can tell, they have also disappeared from history as well.

jgr said:

Genesis 17
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

What does "not of thy seed" at Israel's formation mean?


Brother BAB2 has frequently posted this. These are Irish, observably not Jewish (their noses disqualify them).

Yet testing shows them to be Jewishly ubiquitized.

They've been mixed.

They are representative of mixing events over the millennia resulting in ubiquity today.

Click to expand...

How many children did Abraham have at the time circumcision was even instituted? No more than two sons. That God required even those not of Abraham's seed to undergo circumcision simply goes to show that God is no respecter of persons and that He ordains one law for all people and one salvation plan for all people.

The line of Israel had not yet been established at the time of the establishment of circumcision. It was only in the process of being established which took a number of generations to complete and become a bloodline unto itself.

As for BAB2's posted video, did you or did you not realize that what he posted was a commercial advertising a product which for all anyone knows could be bogus? That does sometimes happen by the way.

Commercials are designed to advertise and sell products and almost never possess anything of informative value which is why, regardless of what side of the debate you are on in this thread, I would not recommend using commercials to make a case for anything because if you do, you run the high risk of looking like a fool, especially when the product advertised later turns out to be a fraud.

BABerean2 said:

You seem to be unaware that Christ was a partial-Preterist in the Olivet Discourse.
Unless the Jewish temple is still standing, He had to be.

Luk 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. (See also Luke 19:41-44.)
Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of this verse happened in 70 AD. See also Luke 19:41-44.)

The verses that follow will occur at the future Second Coming of Christ, after the "times of the Gentiles" has been fulfilled.

Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

.

Click to expand...

That Jesus foretold the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple, which took place in 70 A.D. is not up for debate on either side of the aisle on this thread. But there is more that Jesus said that was going to happen concerning Israel that did not happen in 70 A.D., as well as other things to come upon the world that did not happen in that generation, but going into all of that would stray from the topic of this thread and would best be discussed on a thread dealing with a more generalized discussion on end times.

Contenders Edge said:

Does the promotion of an unchanging (Mal. 3:6) faithful promise-keeping God (Heb. 10:23) qualify as promoting of a dual covenant theology?

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If you think the promises of God were not fulfilled at Calvary, and instead belong to a group of people based on their DNA, then you are clearly promoting some form of Dual Covenant Theology not found in the Bible.

The original source of your doctrine is found below. It was brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War. It was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and spread like a virus through the modern Church.


Genesis of Dispensational Theology

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BABerean2 said:

If you think the promises of God were not fulfilled at Calvary, and instead belong to a group of people based on their DNA, then you are clearly promoting some form of Dual Covenant Theology not found in the Bible.

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That Christ died on the cross for both Jew and Gentile so that we might have eternal life and be reconciled to the Father is not what is being disputed and the promises pertaining to those who are in Christ are not what are being challenged.

What is being disputed is whether or not the earthly blessings, including land restoration for the Jews have been carried over into the New Testament. Again, my contention in stating that they have been carried over has been based upon the fact that God is unchanging (Mal. 3:6) and faithful in keeping His promises (Heb. 10:23) and any doctrine suggesting that He has canceled out any promises He has made to anyone, be they to the nation of Israel who is descended from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or the Church which consists of both Jew and Gentile, is an attack upon the integrity of our God.

Your insistence that I am promoting a Dual Covenant theology or that certain promises belong to a group of people merely based on a bloodline, rather than the faith and obedience of their forefather is a terrible misunderstanding and misrepresentation of my entire basis for the doctrine I have contended for.

BABerean2 said:

The original source of your doctrine is found below. It was brought to America by John Nelson Darby, about the time of the Civil War. It was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and spread like a virus through the modern Church.

Click to expand...

John Darby was not the original source of what is defined as pre-mil doctrine. That is a common misconception. Similar doctrine was widely accepted and taught within the early church on but was overtaken by Preterism for which Augustine was largely credited for its introduction and virtually universal acceptance in the Church when he penned one of his best known works, “The City of God.” Beforehand, those who had taught what is described as Preterist doctrine were regarded as heretics.

John Darby rather had a hand in reviving what was a theology that had been suppressed by both Catholics and Protestants. Would love to go into the history of that, but this thread is not the one to do it on.

Contenders Edge said:

What is being disputed is whether or not the earthly blessings, including land restoration for the Jews have been carried over into the New Testament. Again, my contention in stating that they have been carried over has been based upon the fact that God is unchanging (Mal. 3:6) and faithful in keeping His promises (Heb. 10:23) and any doctrine suggesting that He has canceled out any promises He has made to anyone, be they to the nation of Israel who is descended from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or the Church which consists of both Jew and Gentile, is an attack upon the integrity of our God.

Click to expand...

Your arguments for two separate peoples of God fall apart in the words of Christ found below.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


In the video below former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson reveals your doctrine for what it really is.



.

BABerean2 said:

Your arguments for two separate peoples of God fall apart in the words of Christ found below.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


In the video below former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson reveals your doctrine for what it really is.

.

Click to expand...

The cited passages do not in any way, shape or form cancel out the promise of land restoration to Israel. Will the nation of Israel in the end consist of only those Jews who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord? The following scriptures say that this will be the case. (Zech. 12-14, Rom. 9:27, Rom. 11:26) and it will be they who inherit all the blessings that were meant for them in the first place.

Contenders Edge said:

The cited passages do not in any way, shape or form cancel out the promise of land restoration to Israel. Will the nation of Israel in the end consist of only those Jews who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord? The following scriptures say that this will be the case. (Zech. 12-14, Rom. 9:27, Rom. 11:26) and it will be they who inherit all the blessings that were meant for them in the first place.

Click to expand...

You need to read up on who the OT Jews were..........

There are Jews living in Jerusalem and in the land of Benjamin and Judah now [the ones that want to]!
That is all the land the Jews are entitled to....the rest belong to the non Jewish Hebrew Israelites/Nations.................

Eze 48:22
“Moreover, apart from the possession of the Levites and the possession of the city which are in the midst of what belongs to the prince,
the area between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin shall belong to the prince.

LittleLambofJesus said:

You need to read up on who the OT Jews were..........

There are Jews living in Jerusalem and in the land of Benjamin and Judah now [the ones that want to]!
That is all the land the Jews are entitled to....the rest belong to the non Jewish Hebrew Israelites/Nations.................

Eze 48:22
“Moreover, apart from the possession of the Levites and the possession of the city which are in the midst of what belongs to the prince,
the area between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin shall belong to the prince.

View attachment 261029

Click to expand...

The people of Judah were first called Jews during the days of Ahaz, King of Judah (2 Ki. 16:6) but all Israelites were later called Jews as is written in the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther. They are entitled to all the promised land though each tribe is given their portion.

Contenders Edge said:

The cited passages do not in any way, shape or form cancel out the promise of land restoration to Israel. Will the nation of Israel in the end consist of only those Jews who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord? The following scriptures say that this will be the case. (Zech. 12-14, Rom. 9:27, Rom. 11:26) and it will be they who inherit all the blessings that were meant for them in the first place.

Click to expand...

Zechariah 12:10 is often quoted by Dispensationalists in an attempt to prop up their doctrine.
Their problem is the fact that the verse was fulfilled at Calvary, and on the Day of Pentecost.


Zec 12:10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.


Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.
Joh 19:35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe.
Joh 19:36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "NOT ONE OF HIS BONES SHALL BE BROKEN."
Joh 19:37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."


Act 2:16 But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 'AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAYS GOD, THAT I WILL POUR OUT OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL FLESH; YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS.


Based on Romans 11:5, Romans 9:27 was already fulfilled during Paul's day.

Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.

Rom 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.


Are you one of the people who is changing the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing, in Romans 11:26?

I heard a Dispensationalist make that change on television this week. (Prophecy Watchers)

Anyone who has to change God's Word to make their doctrine work is exposing their doctrine for what it really is.

.

BABerean2 said: ↑
If you think the promises of God were not fulfilled at Calvary, and instead belong to a group of people based on their DNA, then you are clearly promoting some form of Dual Covenant Theology not found in the Bible.

Click to expand...

Contenders Edge said: ↑
What is being disputed is whether or not the earthly blessings, including land restoration for the Jews have been carried over into the New Testament. Again, my contention in stating that they have been carried over has been based upon the fact that God is unchanging (Mal. 3:6) and faithful in keeping His promises (Heb. 10:23) and any doctrine suggesting that He has canceled out any promises He has made to anyone, be they to the nation of Israel who is descended from the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or the Church which consists of both Jew and Gentile, is an attack upon the integrity of our God.

Click to expand...

BABerean2 said: ↑
Your arguments for two separate peoples of God fall apart in the words of Christ found below.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

In the video below former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson reveals your doctrine for what it really is.

Click to expand...

Contenders Edge said: ↑
The cited passages do not in any way, shape or form cancel out the promise of land restoration to Israel. Will the nation of Israel in the end consist of only those Jews who accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord? The following scriptures say that this will be the case. (Zech. 12-14, Rom. 9:27, Rom. 11:26) and it will be they who inherit all the blessings that were meant for them in the first place.

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
You need to read up on who the OT Jews were..........

There are Jews living in Jerusalem and in the land of Benjamin and Judah now [the ones that want to]!
That is all the land the Jews are entitled to....the rest belong to the non Jewish Hebrew Israelites/Nations.................

Eze 48:22
“Moreover, apart from the possession of the Levites and the possession of the city which are in the midst of what belongs to the prince,
the area between the border of Judah and the border of Benjamin shall belong to the prince.

Click to expand...

Contenders Edge said:

The people of Judah were first called Jews during the days of Ahaz, King of Judah (2 Ki. 16:6) but all Israelites were later called Jews as is written in the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther. They are entitled to all the promised land though each tribe is given their portion.

Click to expand...

You have just exposed your ignorance of the difference between Judah and Israel in the OT

The Divorce:

Jer 3:8
“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; ["these shall hate the Harlot"...Revelation 18:16]
yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.["...He judges the great Harlot".....Revelation 19:1]
======================================
Let's look where the words "Jew/Jews" occurs in the OT:
==================
The word "JEW" occurs in only 1 book of the OT: Esther

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"jew" occurs 28 times in 28 verses in the NKJV
Only in Esther of the OT:

Est 2:5
In Shushan the citadel there was a certain Jew whose name was Mordecai the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite.
===========================

The word JEWS only occurs in only 5 books of the OT:
2 Kings, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Daniel and Jeremiah

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"jews"occurs 243 times in 230 verses in the NKJV.

Ezr 4:12
Let it be known to the king that the Jews who came up from you have come to us at Jerusalem, and are building the rebellious and evil city, and are finishing its walls and repairing the foundations.
Neh 1:2
that Hanani one of my brethren came with men from Judah; and I asked them concerning the Jews who had escaped, who had survived the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem
Est 3:6
But he disdained to lay hands on Mordecai alone, for they had told him of the people of Mordecai. Instead, Haman sought to destroy all the Jews who were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus—the people of Mordecai.
Jer 32:12
“and I gave the purchase deed to Baruch the son of Neriah, son of Mahseiah, in the presence of Hanamel my uncle's son, and in the presence of the witnesses who signed the purchase deed, before all the Jews who sat in the court of the prison.
Dan 3:8
Therefore at that time certain Chaldeans came forward and accused the Jews.

==========================
Captivity of the Jews in the OT:

Jer 52:28
These are the people whom Nebuchadnezzar carried away captive: in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Jews;
=============
Captivity of the Jews in the NT [including Revelation]

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]
================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.
=============================
Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
=========

Double Post....................

LittleLambofJesus said:

You have just exposed your ignorance of the difference between Judah and Israel in the OT

The Divorce:

Jer 3:8
“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; ["these shall hate the Harlot"...Revelation 18:16]
yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.["...He judges the great Harlot".....Revelation 19:1]
======================================
Let's look where the words "Jew/Jews" occurs in the OT:
==================
The word "JEW" occurs in only 1 book of the OT: Esther

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"jew" occurs 28 times in 28 verses in the NKJV
Only in Esther of the OT:

Est 2:5
In Shushan the citadel there was a certain Jew whose name was Mordecai the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite.
===========================

The word JEWS only occurs in only 5 books of the OT:
2 Kings, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Daniel and Jeremiah

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"jews"occurs 243 times in 230 verses in the NKJV.

Ezr 4:12
Let it be known to the king that the Jews who came up from you have come to us at Jerusalem, and are building the rebellious and evil city, and are finishing its walls and repairing the foundations.
Neh 1:2
that Hanani one of my brethren came with men from Judah; and I asked them concerning the Jews who had escaped, who had survived the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem
Est 3:6
But he disdained to lay hands on Mordecai alone, for they had told him of the people of Mordecai. Instead, Haman sought to destroy all the Jews who were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus—the people of Mordecai.
Jer 32:12
“and I gave the purchase deed to Baruch the son of Neriah, son of Mahseiah, in the presence of Hanamel my uncle's son, and in the presence of the witnesses who signed the purchase deed, before all the Jews who sat in the court of the prison.
Dan 3:8
Therefore at that time certain Chaldeans came forward and accused the Jews.

==========================
Captivity of the Jews in the OT:

Jer 52:28
These are the people whom Nebuchadnezzar carried away captive: in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Jews;
=============
Captivity of the Jews in the NT [including Revelation]

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]
================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.
=============================
Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
=========

Click to expand...

"Jew" or "Jews"; what difference does that make? Now you are engaging in semantics that are no consequence. After the Babylonian exile, all Israelites are then called Jews. There is no longer any distinction between the two regardless of what tribe any of them are from. They at that point in time were made one people and remain so to this very day.

Also, there is reconciliation after the divorce as foretold by the prophet Hosea and the harlot being judged in the book of Revelation is Babylon, not Israel.

Contenders Edge said: ↑
The people of Judah were first called Jews during the days of Ahaz, King of Judah (2 Ki. 16:6) but all Israelites were later called Jews as is written in the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther. They are entitled to all the promised land though each tribe is given their portion.

Click to expand...

LittleLambofJesus said:

You have just exposed your ignorance of the difference between Judah and Israel in the OT

The Divorce:
Jer 3:8
“Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; ["these shall hate the Harlot"...Revelation 18:16]
yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.["...He judges the great Harlot".....Revelation 19:1]
======================================
Let's look where the words "Jew/Jews" occurs in the OT:
==================
The word "JEW" occurs in only 1 book of the OT: Esther

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"jew" occurs 28 times in 28 verses in the NKJV
Only in Esther of the OT:

Est 2:5
In Shushan the citadel there was a certain Jew whose name was Mordecai the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite.
===========================

The word JEWS only occurs in only 5 books of the OT:
2 Kings, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Daniel and Jeremiah

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"jews"occurs 243 times in 230 verses in the NKJV.

Ezr 4:12
Let it be known to the king that the Jews who came up from you have come to us at Jerusalem, and are building the rebellious and evil city, and are finishing its walls and repairing the foundations.
Neh 1:2
that Hanani one of my brethren came with men from Judah; and I asked them concerning the Jews who had escaped, who had survived the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem
Est 3:6
But he disdained to lay hands on Mordecai alone, for they had told him of the people of Mordecai. Instead, Haman sought to destroy all the Jews who were throughout the whole kingdom of Ahasuerus—the people of Mordecai.
Jer 32:12
“and I gave the purchase deed to Baruch the son of Neriah, son of Mahseiah, in the presence of Hanamel my uncle's son, and in the presence of the witnesses who signed the purchase deed, before all the Jews who sat in the court of the prison.
Dan 3:8
Therefore at that time certain Chaldeans came forward and accused the Jews.

==========================
Captivity of the Jews in the OT:

Jer 52:28
These are the people whom Nebuchadnezzar carried away captive: in the seventh year, three thousand and twenty-three Jews;
=============
Captivity of the Jews in the NT [including Revelation]

Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]
================
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, to which must be added, above TWO-HUNDRED AND THIRTY-SEVEN THOUSAND who perished in other places, and innumerable multitudes who were swept away by famine, and pestilence, and of which no calculation could be made. Not less than two thousand laid violent hands upon themselves.
Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.
=============================
Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
=========

Click to expand...

Contenders Edge said:

"Jew" or "Jews"; what difference does that make?

Click to expand...

Typical zionist dispensationalist futurist response that ignores all the scriptures I posted concerning the words Jew/Jews in the Bible......

Are you a Jew in disguise by any chance?