Faithfulness vs belief (pistos)

Discussdocs

druth
Aug 10, 2019
53
14
North East
Visit site
✟10,035.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hey all

I was wondering if anyone here was working with the concept that faith (pistos) in the Greek is used to mean faithfulness rather than just one time belief. What I mean is instead of just a one time belief, understanding rather that faith as used by the Biblical authors has the idea of loyalty and faithfulness. There have been some authors out there who have written about it such as Matthew Bates or others. I think the Biblical authors had the idea of more than just one time belief.

Anyone want to discuss and think similar?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tigger45

Discussdocs

druth
Aug 10, 2019
53
14
North East
Visit site
✟10,035.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
  • Agree
Reactions: fhansen
Upvote 0

watchman 2

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2016
519
59
65
ohio
✟24,537.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Hey all

I was wondering if anyone here was working with the concept that faith (pistos) in the Greek is used to mean faithfulness rather than just one time belief. What I mean is instead of just a one time belief, understanding rather that faith as used by the Biblical authors has the idea of loyalty and faithfulness. There have been some authors out there who have written about it such as Matthew Bates or others. I think the Biblical authors had the idea of more than just one time belief.

Anyone want to discuss and think similar?

Hi Devon,
I've got alot of info on your topic, where do you want to start .
 
Upvote 0

Discussdocs

druth
Aug 10, 2019
53
14
North East
Visit site
✟10,035.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hi Devon,
I've got alot of info on your topic, where do you want to start .

Thanks for the reply. I guess one thing we could discuss first is how we identify how the authors of Scripture use faith. For me James 2 and Hebrews 11 are pivotal. In both of these chapters faith is defined as what it is and refined as what it is not.

Hebrews 11 defines faith as "evidence of that not seen." To me that is visible action. The rest of the chapter goes on to discuss people who were in "faith" and the author lists their loyal actions. As the author says that God rewards those that "diligently seek Him."

James 2 says that works and faith "work together" and by it faith is complete as was the case of Abraham. So then the kind of loyalty or faith that God is looking for seems to me to be one that is loyal disposition or action.

How would you define how the authors use the word and what is your reasoning?
 
Upvote 0

watchman 2

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2016
519
59
65
ohio
✟24,537.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Thanks for the reply. I guess one thing we could discuss first is how we identify how the authors of Scripture use faith. For me James 2 and Hebrews 11 are pivotal. In both of these chapters faith is defined as what it is and refined as what it is not.

Hebrews 11 defines faith as "evidence of that not seen." To me that is visible action. The rest of the chapter goes on to discuss people who were in "faith" and the author lists their loyal actions. As the author says that God rewards those that "diligently seek Him."

James 2 says that works and faith "work together" and by it faith is complete as was the case of Abraham. So then the kind of loyalty or faith that God is looking for seems to me to be one that is loyal disposition or action.

How would you define how the authors use the word and what is your reasoning?

Okay,
Before and if we look at the scriptures, let's look at what Faith really is.

Our English word "Faith" comes from the Greek word "Pistis". Pistis is a noun and used 244 times in the NT.

Of course, a noun is a person, place or thing, right. So a noun on its own isn't an action word ,it needs a corresponding verb, correct.
 
Upvote 0

Discussdocs

druth
Aug 10, 2019
53
14
North East
Visit site
✟10,035.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Okay,
Before and if we look at the scriptures, let's look at what Faith really is.

Our English word "Faith" comes from the Greek word "Pistis". Pistis is a noun and used 244 times in the NT.

Of course, a noun is a person, place or thing, right. So a noun on its own isn't an action word ,it needs a corresponding verb, correct.

I take it to be a noun as in a disposition. I also think "having faith" is the same as exercising and therefore is a verb.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

watchman 2

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2016
519
59
65
ohio
✟24,537.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Pistos is not only translated as a noun it is also translated as a verb.

Pistos is an adverb, and is only used 67 times in the NT. The corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, is pisteuo. Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

How would you define what a verb is?
 
Upvote 0

Discussdocs

druth
Aug 10, 2019
53
14
North East
Visit site
✟10,035.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Pistis is an adverb, and is only used 67 times in the NT. The corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, is pisteuo. Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

How would you define what a verb is?
Translators have done this on the basis of context.

I would define a verb as an action or something you do whether that be fleshed out or in your mind. Like I was saying earlier Pistis, and its forms, are used by New Testament authors as a disposition demonstrating loyalty. I make the argument that faith is a work.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

watchman 2

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2016
519
59
65
ohio
✟24,537.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Translators have done this on the basis of context.

I would define a verb as an action or something you do whether that be fleshed out or in your mind. Like I was saying earlier Pistis, and its forms, are used by New Testament authors as a disposition demonstrating loyalty. I make the argument that faith is a work.

Your correct, a verb is an act, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence. Do you agree with this definition of a verb?
 
Upvote 0

watchman 2

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2016
519
59
65
ohio
✟24,537.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I would not affirm that it is always upon belief or sustained by confidence. I don't see the need to go that far for all actions.

Let me ask you. How many acts, based upon a belief, sustained by confidence do you fulfill in one days time?
 
Upvote 0

mark kennedy

Natura non facit saltum
Supporter
Mar 16, 2004
22,024
7,364
60
Indianapolis, IN
✟549,630.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
Hey all

I was wondering if anyone here was working with the concept that faith (pistos) in the Greek is used to mean faithfulness rather than just one time belief. What I mean is instead of just a one time belief, understanding rather that faith as used by the Biblical authors has the idea of loyalty and faithfulness. There have been some authors out there who have written about it such as Matthew Bates or others. I think the Biblical authors had the idea of more than just one time belief.

Anyone want to discuss and think similar?
Rom. 1:17, Gal. 3:11, Heb. 10:38 are all telling us the righteous shall live by faith. Based on Habbukuk 2:4, the just shall live by faith. The word for faith used in the original Hebrew is most often translated faithfulness. I've dealt with this before.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums