Marriage

Sight of God yes...but where you are.. obey all mans laws

Carl Emerson said:

Hi there,

If a guy and a girl rock up to church that have been living together unmarried, but both have just found salvation in Jesus, should they split as a couple until they can get married?

What if they claim they are now married before God having repented of their previous state, committed themselves to each other before Him immediately after finding salvation and are therefore married spiritually?

This begs the question - what constitutes a marriage biblically?

Some site Adam and Eve were married before God only.

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Obtaining a marriage license, and standing before someone authorized to perform marriages.

Anything else is just fornicating, playing house, and deceiving yourself.

Carl

If a man and a woman 'rock up' to church, and both have found salvation in Christ, then I would *first* expect that they are reading the Bible together. Every day, without fail. Because if they have truly made God their #1 priority, then the Lord's Word must govern their lives - including their intimate behavior.

I would expect that when they read God's commandments about marriage, they will stop living together. Period. They will stop all physical intimate behavior ... No sex. This they must do, until they go through a proper marriage ceremony ordained by God.

A proper ceremony does not have to be an expensive one. It can be very simple. But a pastor who is ordained by God must conduct the ceremony, with vows that are solemn and sincere.

If they take these steps, then the Lord will surely bless their future. However, if they continue to make excuses and live in sin, then I have no idea what the words 'rock up to church' really mean. It certainly would not be a living arrangement that is blessed by God.

I must say i am a little surprised by some other answers on this forum. It appears that knowledge of God's word has become very wishy-washy, even amongst practicing Christians. I hope people will go back to reading the Bible daily.

Blessings!!

Carl Emerson said:

Hi there,

If a guy and a girl rock up to church that have been living together unmarried, but both have just found salvation in Jesus, should they split as a couple until they can get married?

What if they claim they are now married before God having repented of their previous state, committed themselves to each other before Him immediately after finding salvation and are therefore married spiritually?

This begs the question - what constitutes a marriage biblically?

Some site Adam and Eve were married before God only.

Click to expand...

Years ago a website called TeamLaw gave this explanation regarding marriage license in the USA.


He further says,


Regarding what the Bible has to say, he says this:


Furthermore, many states agree that a couple who has lived together for more than seven years can have a common law marriage. What each state has to say about this, I suppose would depend on the states. For most, if the couple had been claiming taxes as a married couple, they would be regarded as married.

So, in consideration that a marriage license, in of itself, is not what constitutes a marriage, nor does just shacking up for seven years mean married as well, we should consider the essentials. I think the essentials are these things:

1. The couple agree to stay together as a married couple.
2. The father of the woman consents to the arrangement.
3. A public declaration of their vow to stay together has been made.

Speaking for my self and my wife, before we married, while publicly engaged, we stumbled into sin and were intimate. I knew this displeased the Lord, even tho, we publicly announced our betrothal and had her father's consent. In my spirit, I knew we were sinning.

We repented and had no further intimacy until we married. That repentance cleansed our relationship, but did not remove the consequences. We were blessed with a honeymoon provisions, but I knew that if we had been chaste 100% the honeymoon would have been much greater. We have been married almost 30 years now.

I hope this is helpful.

Carl Emerson said:

Hi there,

If a guy and a girl rock up to church that have been living together unmarried, but both have just found salvation in Jesus, should they split as a couple until they can get married?

What if they claim they are now married before God having repented of their previous state, committed themselves to each other before Him immediately after finding salvation and are therefore married spiritually?

This begs the question - what constitutes a marriage biblically?

Some site Adam and Eve were married before God only.

Click to expand...

I don't see the value in separating.. Why not just go to the JP and get it done then and there... Have a church celebration later....

Kris Jordan said:

Hi Carl,

This couple needs to immediately stop living (and sleeping) together until they are legally married.

What constitutes a legal marriage is first directed by what Scripture says (= one man and one woman for life) and then by what their particular state requires (= marriage license, official marriage ceremony, etc.).

As believers, they are to submit themselves to the governing authorities over them in becoming "legally married," since there is nothing about those requirements that violate any biblical command (Reference: Romans 13:1-2). Without meeting these requirements, they are not married before God or anyone else but simply living in sin instead (if they continue living and sleeping together).

Hope that helps!

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Can someone show some scripture where it says that official marriage before God has anything to do with marriage laws created by human beings? Is there any such scripture? I would love to take a look at it. Thanks

Kris Jordan said:

Hi Carl,

I would assert that your statement, "authority in any culture is to be respected and the cultural norms define what constitutes marriage" would apply only in cases where those cultures and cultural norms do not violate God's Word or principles (or our own consciences, for that matter).

For example, if a culture (and their government) legalized polygamy, homosexual marriage or human-animal marriage, then your statement would not apply since it goes against the clear teaching of Scripture. But in cases where no violation of God's Word (or our own conscience) is present, then yes, I would agree with that statement.

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What do cultural norms have to do with God? It isn’t against a God to deviate from social or cultural norms is it?

Carl Emerson said:

Romans 13

1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.7Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

God works through governing authorities.

Such authorities require legal acknowledgement of marriage performed by a registered celebrant.

Folks that ignore this requirement are acting lawlessly and need to clean up their act.

They would not be considered married before God if this step is not taken.

That means those who choose to be married before God without going through this hoop are indeed living in sin.

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I think a careful study of the Romans 13 will show that Paul was not talking about civil government but mature leaders of the body of Christ.

I don't know how the laws in New Zealand came about, but I suspect we have a similar history. It is obvious you have posted Rom 13 to repudiate what I had shared regarding the marriage license.

However, this topic is too big to discuss in this venue. If you have an open mind, I direct you to this article on Rom 13 that I wrote several years ago.

Carl Emerson said:

Romans 13

1Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing.7Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

God works through governing authorities.

Such authorities require legal acknowledgement of marriage performed by a registered celebrant.

Folks that ignore this requirement are acting lawlessly and need to clean up their act.

They would not be considered married before God if this step is not taken.

That means those who choose to be married before God without going through this hoop are indeed living in sin.

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Ok so I have a quick question for you now. Was God working through the governing authorities when say slavery was legal? Or do we pick and choose which times we get to say God was working through governing authorities and when God was absent from working with the governing authorities?

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Ok so I have a quick question for you now. Was God working through the governing authorities when say slavery was legal? Or do we pick and choose which times we get to say God was working through governing authorities and when God was absent from working with the governing authorities?

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I think a careful study of the Romans 13 will show that Paul was not talking about civil government but mature leaders of the body of Christ.

I encourage you to read my article. It is long and thorough but I believe unravels the chapter.

Depends on the heart of the couple.

IF you have the means to be married right now by mans law... why havent you done so?

Do you fear mans law more than God and are unwilling to make the "union" more than "just" a union before God.

Why would you state before God that this is the one you are joined to as one flesh, but not make the same declaration before man?

IF you look to justify sin and claim it as "This is my one, until it gets too hatd or inconvenient... you may as well remain in your sin rather than try to play God for the fool in your loopholes and justifications, you arent fooling Him. If you go in search 9f those loopholes, you havent truly repented.

IF two people are truly devoted to eachother as husband and wife (not just saying so for the "physical benefits") then I honestly dont believe that God cares about an official document claiming they are bound by law..... but God DOES care if two are joined in one spirit... His... in love, to be married as intented, not in the twisted state it has become at the hands of man.

IF you or the other person doesnt want to take the legal step to be married offical in the eyes of man, then you must ask yourself why?

You arent going to fool God, He lnows your heart.

Getting married in a courthouse is not expensive. IF having a "dream wedding" is higher on a priority list than obedience to God, you or they MIGHT have made an idol of the ceremony of marriage. Nothing stops you from having a courthouse wedding..... and celebrating your anniversary with your "dream wedding" as people do in vow renwal if you cant live without it.

They are babes in Christ and as such need nurturing, guiding, unconditional love, and much wisdom from those in leadership. Whatever you decide to do I trust that you earnestly seek God's wisdom and Holy Spirit to guide you. Much harm can be done to new believers, and mature ones for that matter, when they are 'corrected' in their walk. Especially when they haven't even learnt to 'crawl' so new are they in the faith. New believers have so much in their lives to change, to take in, many things to give up and walk away from, I pray they are not overwhelmed too greatly and that they continue to receive loving, Holy Spirt filled and led counsel and support.

If I had lived with my ex before we got married, then our wedding would never had happened. There is an old saying that "you do not truly know someone until you live with them." Living with her was misery. Had I known of how just unhappy she would make me, then I never would have married her.

Fast forward to now. My old lady and I have been married for 20 happy years. We lived together for 3 before.
By the time we got married we knew each other well.

My advice to others is to live together first. This is the 21st century and first century Jewish traditions do not find us not should they define us.

Carl Emerson said:

I think this point you raise is fully relevant and needs to be discussed.

You claim Romans 13 refers to Church administration not Civil authority - this is critical to the topic - please support this view from scripture.

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I had linked to my article, but because I linked on the words Romans 13, it linked to the Bible instead.
To explain why I believe it really refers to believers and not civil governments takes a detailed analysis of the chapter in context of the book.
Here is the link. It is too long to discuss in this venue.

Romans 13 Exhorts Trusting Mature Believers not Obeying Civil Government