Who is responsible for our sanctification?

Michael Collum said:

The true church Jesus builds and is a Habitation for God in the Spirit.

In the man made organizations, there's no such thing as a true church.

Click to expand...

"The true church Jesus builds and is a Habitation for God in the Spirit."

I have no idea what that means.

Hammster said:

If someone is saved, then God will sanctify them. That’s what I’m saying.

Click to expand...

That's comforting to hear...if Perseverance of the Saints is true, we have so much hope.
If it is not true, we have much to despair of, seeing the fallen away ones pass on.

Hammster said:

Who is responsible for our sanctification?

Click to expand...

Given we are compared to the most incompetent animal--sheep--we would be in trouble if the responsibility of sanctification fell on us.

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." John 10:28

Hammster said:

You must not have anticipated my question, because you haven’t answered it.

Who is predestined to be conformed? If God predestines something, I’m sure it will happen.

Click to expand...

Don't you read my replies? The Galatians were called and predestined but they apostatized from Christ to turn to another gospel (Gal 1:6). God predestined those Galatians but they did not persevere did they? Yes or No? I prefer to believe Paul's own witness which directly contradicts your claim.

@Hammster great posts! I was raised in a hell, fire and brimstone teaching and if you sin after salvation then you are backslidden and are subject to be judged and cast into hell on the day of judgment. I was trying sooooo hard to be perfect and upright and walk in righteousness....but every time I was in church the pastor preached a message on a sin that I was guilty of that week.....I became so full of fear that I didn't enjoy being Christian much at all, I just feared going to hell more. One particular Sunday the pastor preached a message and at the end of the sermon gave an alter call for any who were guilty of the sin of that message. Of course I went up to be prayed for again for the umpteenth time...to rededicate my life again, or to get saved again or to get delivered of fleshly weaknesses....sigh.....
After church I went home so discouraged....and by the time I got home and walked in the door I had convinced myself that this Christianity thing was too hard and no matter how hard I tried I just couldn't make the mark.
As I cried out to God and told Him I quit...funny thing happened....I heard a voice (inaudibly) ask me "Patty, who do you think I am?".....a minute or two went by while I was trying to comprehend what I just heard and then I answered you are God.....He asked me again..."Who do YOU think I am?" ......remembering what I was taught in church I replied...You are the Creator, the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and End, The I Am.....He asked me again....."Who do you think I am?" ....I just shrugged my shoulders and said what do you WANT ME TO SAY?.....Then He said "I am your Father, and as much as you love your daughter so much more do I love you that you cannot even comprehend it.....and as you raise your daughter and teach her right from wrong and when she errs from doing right you will correct her, chastise her, and continue to teach her and no matter how many mistakes she makes you will never stop loving her.....So it is with me....I am your Father and I will teach you to walk in my ways, to overcome and to be victorious over sin....and when you mess up I will chasten you and correct you....but I will NEVER stop loving you.....so when you sin...repent and ask forgiveness....walk with me and talk with me...tell me what's on your mind...I love to hear your thoughts.

I have shared this before so if you have already heard it my apologies.....

ANYWAY from that day forward He always assured me that He was doing a new thing in me and that good work He began He will perfect until the coming of Jesus Christ.

NOT that I am off the hook....His chastening really sucks.....basically sometimes downright unbearable...lol.

So I agree with you.....He sanctifies us....and never ceases to nudge us to a deeper fellowship and relationship with Him.

God Bless!

Hammster said:

Who is responsible for our sanctification?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
— Philippians 2:12-13

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
— 1 Corinthians 15:10

Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
— Hebrews 13:20-21

Click to expand...

Without grace, without God, there's no human sanctification. Without human cooperation with grace, there's no human sanctification. In fact, the human will is directly involved; the more we willingly participate, the greater our sanctity. That's what God's after in us, since Eden.

Mountainmanbob said:

I do not believe that because.
Much of the Bible is written to the Church

Bible mentions pastors, elders and deacons.
These are found in the local churches.

M-Bob

Click to expand...

In the bible it also says the tares and the wheat abide until the harvest comes, thus not all attending are "the church" thus not the "true" church.

David Cabrera said:

"The true church Jesus builds and is a Habitation for God in the Spirit."

I have no idea what that means.

Click to expand...

It's two scripture verses compounded into one sentence.

Jesus said "I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not stand against it" and Ephesians 2:22

Hammster said:

Don’t stop there.

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
— Philippians 2:12-13

Click to expand...

Yes, God is He who sanctifies us.
We are sanctified by Him.

Heb 2
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”

13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”

And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

Hammster said:

Who is responsible for our sanctification?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
— Philippians 2:12-13

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
— 1 Corinthians 15:10

Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
— Hebrews 13:20-21

Click to expand...

God the Father already knows if you will walk with Him as your "supposed to do", I guess you could say...? anyway, or, God the Father already knows and knew your specific, end and everything in-between, from the very, very, very beginning, etc, of anything, etc...

But you don't and we don't (know, etc), and I don't even know if Jesus or the Holy Spirit knows for absolute 100% certainty with each and everyone of us like the Father does either, whether we will choose to allow them to "save" us and/or work with us and be with us to "keep us saved" or "whatever", and again, "I guess you could say", etc...

The Father God is ultimately responsible for it, but because none of the rest of knows, and only because we don't know, we have the "appearance" that each and every one of the rest of us, Son and Holy Spirit included maybe, anyway, we have the "appearance that we all each one (Son and Holy Spirit and us) plays a major role or heavy part in it as well", if anything, if only due to our not knowing all that the Father knows and always knew from even before the very beginning...

We have to act as if we have some part in it, by choosing to cooperate with the Son and Holy Spirit and walk with them, but the Father already knows, and already always did know "all" etc...

God Bless!

Hammster said:

Nope. Just looking to start a discussion. So many folks think that salvation can be lost. But if sanctification is God’s responsibility, then that is impossible.

Click to expand...

Sanctified is defined as "to be made holy" which in simple terms means, "to be set apart for divine purpose."

God might call us (John 6:44) but we have to choose between light and darkness, life and death. In fact, we have to choose whether or not to aim our heart at God, or leave it aimed at the world. So to say we have nothing to do when our very initial "salvation experience" if you will, involved us deciding where to aim our heart... determining who we serve, what we will love more! Then, He accepts us... and He sets us apart for His good purpose... which we can't do. But then we walk in that set apart calling, which is something we can do. We do something on our own, He does something we can't do, then we do something related to what He did, with the aid at that point of the Spirit in us.

So Hammy, if sanctification to you means being saved, He saves us and nobody will have any argument from Scripture that can state otherwise. Who belongs to His family and who doesn't is HIS CALL alone. But if the definition of sanctification is being made set apart for a purpose, then it's still only His work, but once He has done His end, we have to do ours.

Hammster said:

Who is responsible for our sanctification?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
— Romans 8:29

So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
— Philippians 2:12-13

But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.
— 1 Corinthians 15:10

Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
— Hebrews 13:20-21

Click to expand...

We have free will and it is our place to use it to surrender to the will of God. We become holy through the baptism in God's Spirit and that Spirit is our helper to guide us in holiness. We cannot do it on our own but must rely on the Spirit to follow.

Yarddog said:

We have free will and it is our place to use it to surrender to the will of God. We become holy through the baptism in God's Spirit and that Spirit is our helper to guide us in holiness. We cannot do it on our own but must rely on the Spirit to follow.

Click to expand...

With the "appearance of free will that we have", etc, most definitely a big "yes" and "Amen" to the rest...

Because it's entirely possible that maybe even the Spirit and the Son don't even know for sure... And we most definitely don't or do not...

So we must use the free will that we have, or appear to have, to do this, to choose them and to walk with them...

God Bless!

Hammster said:

The thread isn’t about being called. It assumes that we are talking about people who are saved.

Click to expand...

Perhaps you might define "sanctify" then so your understanding of the word is made known.

According to Webster's, to sanctify means "to set apart to a sacred purpose" as its first definition. The Hebrew (qadash) means to consecrate (to make holy, i.e. to set apart).The Greek (hagiazō) also means "to make holy" and again, holy means "to be set apart from the ordinary."

So the question is, "What are we being set apart to do or become?" I was taking the position that it is too narrow to just say "be saved" when salvation involves more than just eternal life. We have been set apart (sanctified) for His purpose. What is your place in that purpose? What is your calling? Because you being set apart to do that is also part of being sanctified.