God loves everyone?

bling · Aug 13, 2019

sdowney717 said:
God created rocks and fallen angels, demons, and evil people too.
They are part of this current evil age, but in the age to come, they will not be living or around us anymore, they will be gone. God will create and make all things new.
God through Christ made all things that were made, including all mankind, but God is the vinedresser and chooses whether they remain in the vine (abide in Christ) or not.
Its honestly up to God.
John 15 New King James Version (NKJV)
The True Vine
15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.

John 1 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

From what I see and read everything was made or allowed to happen to help those willing to accept God's help to fulfill their earthly objective or there would be no good reason for it to be here. Satan roaming the earth, Christ going to the cross, tragedies of all kinds, hell, death and even sin are to help those who are willing.
Which "branch" does God choose to cut off?

BNR32FAN · Aug 13, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Scripture explains why things are as they are, so we have no surprises, we are supposed to be knowing the truth, that is what the Holy Spirit teaches. We have perfect explanations in scripture for why some people are saved and why some fall away and why some never believe at all.

Can I hear the explanation in light of a John 15:1-10 please.

1. How can branches who are in Christ be cut off?

2. Were they elected by God? If not how can those who are totally depraved be in Christ and attached to the vine?

3. Why did Jesus tell His 11 faithful apostles to abide (stay, remain, continue) in Him if they were undoubtedly chosen by God and are incapable of failing to abide?

4. How can anyone fail to abide in Christ? Keep in mind they must first be in Christ in order to stay, remain, and continue in Him. A person cannot stay or remain somewhere they’ve never been and they cannot continue something they’ve never begun.

bling · Aug 13, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Scripture explains why things are as they are, so we have no surprises, we are supposed to be knowing the truth, that is what the Holy Spirit teaches. We have perfect explanations in scripture for why some people are saved and why some fall away and why some never believe at all.

From what I see and read everything was made or allowed to happen to help those willing to accept God's help to fulfill their earthly objective or there would be no good reason for it to be here. Satan roaming the earth, Christ going to the cross, tragedies of all kinds, hell, death and even sin are to help those who are willing.

sdowney717 · Aug 13, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
John 15:2 He (The Father) cuts off every branch in Me that does not bear fruit. Were these branches chosen by God? If not how can they have been in Christ if the doctrine of total depravity it true?

God through Christ created all men did He not do that? So Christ was responsible for making them.
In Him was life it says, He being the true Vine will only have fruit bearing branches, that is God's decision.
John 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

But these men that Christ created that God did not foreknow as His own, they are the ones removed from the vine, so of course they won't be abiding in Christ. They are cut off from LIFE by the Father since He never knew them or ordained that they bear fruit in the vine and have LIFE.

The ones who are chosen to bear fruit and be in the vine, God foreknew them and so then predestined them to be conformed to Christ and only them. They are the ones who will remain in the vine and have life, those He did not foreknow get cut off.
Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

You can only keep saying the things so many times.

BNR32FAN · Aug 13, 2019

bling said:
From what I see and read everything was made or allowed to happen to help those willing to accept God's help to fulfill their earthly objective or there would be no good reason for it to be here. Satan roaming the earth, Christ going to the cross, tragedies of all kinds, hell, death and even sin are to help those who are willing.
Which "vines" does God choose to cut off?

Actually it’s the branches that are cut off. Jesus is the vine that they are attached to.

bling · Aug 13, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Actually it’s the branches that are cut off. Jesus is the vine that they are attached to.

Sorry good comment, thank you , will change.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

renniks said:
First, that doesn't fit with your theology. If you are chosen, you were never a child of wrath, you were destined from before you were born for salvation. The question is why you think you have been chosen and not others?

I misspoke. I am, by nature, as a child of wrath. So there’s no difference between my nature and that of the reprobate.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

renniks said:
That makes no sense whatsoever. If I have the means to save everyone from a house fire and only pick one to save, even if they were foolish and started the fire themselves, I am not more merciful to one than to the others?

This shows your lack of understanding of the holiness of God, and how bad sin is.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

Strong in Him said:
Forgive me if I'm dense, but I cannot see how that is not the case.
A person does not know what's in a sealed envelope until they open it - to do that, they have to pick it up. If it's addressed to them, whatever is inside it is meant for them. If that turned out to be money, it would do them no good until, or unless, they took it and put it in their wallet/the bank.
The best wrapped, and most expensive, Christmas present in the world is no good to you if you don't look at what's inside.

okay.

God doesn't force anything on anyone.
If he had wanted to do that, he would have made it so that Adam and Eve had no choice but to obey him. And he would not have then given Adam a command not to touch certain fruit if he knew full well that Adam HAD to obey him. That would be like God saying to me "I command you not drive your car next week." I don't have a car and cannot drive, so it is pointless commanding me not to.

mkay.

So are you saying that a non Christian could be going happily along, and they suddenly find they have a new heart - that they didn't ask for - inside them?

That is what happens to all of those who are saved.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
John 15:17 says

“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:17‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Some translations use the word may be saved indicating He gave the world the possibility or way of being saved.

See the OP.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

Lost4words said:
Who did Jesus 'hate'

Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

bling said:
All people are saved by God's forgiveness, but not all are disciplined for their rebellious disobedience.
Paul explains that in Ro. 3:25 since prior to the cross "those forgiven" were not "punished/disciplined".

All chosen people are saved by the work of Christ on the cross.

Lost4words · Aug 13, 2019

Hammster said:
Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity.

Thats not hate though? Surely?

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

bling said:
Come now Hammster, do you not know all the benefits of fair/just/Loving discipline, are you a parent and/or did you have good parents? Sorry for asking, just have a hard time believing you do not know.

Loving Discipline correctly accepted :

Is a deterrent for the child and other children of the same parent.

Is a way to measure the severity of the offence (the greater the severity of the discipline the greater the offence).

Lets the child know the parent unquestionably cares about them.

Allows those going through the discipline with the child to form a stronger bond (Christ is going through it with us).

helps the child put the offence against the Parent behind him/her to know it is over.

Allows the child to now feel comfortable in the Parent’s presence.

There could be more, just off the top of my head.

I have no idea what you point is. This has nothing to do with the cross.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

Lost4words said:
Thats not hate though? Surely?

Seems like it to me.

BNR32FAN · Aug 13, 2019

sdowney717 said:
God through Christ created all men did He not do that? So Christ was responsible for making them.
In Him was life it says, He being the true Vine will only have fruit bearing branches, that is God's decision.
John 1:4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

But these men that Christ created that God did not foreknow as His own, they are the ones removed from the vine, so of course they won't be abiding in Christ. They are cut off from LIFE by the Father since He never knew them or ordained that they bear fruit in the vine and have LIFE.

The ones who are chosen to bear fruit and be in the vine, God foreknew them and so then predestined them to be conformed to Christ and only them. They are the ones who will remain in the vine and have life, those He did not foreknow get cut off.
Romans 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

You can only keep saying the things so many times.

What about His 11 faithful apostles? Why did Jesus tell them to abide in Him even saying to them “the branch cannot bear fruit of itself so neither can you unless you abide in Me”. Why would He say that if they are incapable of failing to abide.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
What about His 11 faithful apostles? Why did Jesus tell them to abide in Him even saying to them “the branch cannot bear fruit of itself so neither can you unless you abide in Me”. Why would He say that if they are incapable of failing to abide.

Not this nonsense again.

Not David · Aug 13, 2019

Jonaitis said:
John 3:16 refers to mankind in general, not every individual person, as the context is a conversation between Jesus and a Jewish teacher about salvation.

If God loved every human being ever born, then all would have been saved by the blood of Jesus.

Not true, I remember the thread "Does God love the devil?" and what Father Matthew explained about love and salvation.
Does God loves the devil?

BNR32FAN · Aug 13, 2019

Hammster said:
Not this nonsense again.

Nonsense? I think it’s a legitimate question.

Hammster · Aug 13, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Nonsense? I think it’s a legitimate question.

But you reject legitimate answers. You take no consideration of context.

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