Women's ultimate responsibility for world's sin

kdm1984 said:

EDIT: I have adjusted my thesis on this a bit after further discussion and analysis of Scripture with some here. Woman was deceived, but Scripture says sin came through one man (Adam), so I no longer view sin as fully woman's responsibility. See pages 6, 7, 8 of this thread for further explanation and context.

Click to expand...

think of Christ, he was conceived by a virgin through the Holy Spirit (a woman). God chooses a woman to carry the incarnate and he does not choose a man. We know you need two essential ingredients to make a baby. Man's sperm and Woman's egg. Hypothetically the sperm of a man could have been used to form Christ in a hypothetical womb of the Holy Spirit but this combination didn't work. It's laughable but it not only doesn't work because this womb would corrupt Christ's humanity as he could not be said to endure the complete human experience but I believe the sperm of man would also corrupt Christ's divinity being developed from a sinful state.

Somehow with a woman, it's different. Christ's humanity is preserved enduring the complete human experience being carried to full term in the womb of a human but also I believe his divinity is preserved as well being untouched by the sin of man. It is the magic combination and woman somehow is more worthy than man to have this direct involvement.

so looking at these essential ingredients again which one is corrupted by sin? the sperm or the egg? Somehow the sin of Adam had a deeper impact and it might be to do with him taking the fruit not out of deception but from something else. Genesis simply says he was with Eve and she gave him some so he ate it... that's a pretty poor excuse and Adam fails not just in eating the fruit but also in his leadership and inability to resist. In the end, they were both at the tree together and the sin had already started in both of them, it doesn't matter who took the first bite.

Pedra said:

lol, Typical of the tactic to let Eve off the hook. No where does the Bible say Eve was designed as a responder.
Imo, people miss gaining any wisdom from what took place to cause the fall, if they reject the facts of the matter as the Bible states it. Interesting that you are projecting innocence onto Eve and projecting selfish motive upon Adam.

The Bible states Eve was deceived by Satan, she took and ate of the fruit and offered it to Adam and Adam ate it disobeying GOD.
It is a cautionary tale for any who have ears to hear it.

Click to expand...

You can get a good sense of who's responsible for the fall ... by looking at God's judgement in the aftermath.

God judged and cursed ... Adam
God judged and cursed ... Eve
God judged and cursed ... the serpent

Ergo, they were ALL responsible ...

A_Thinker said:

You can get a good sense of who's responsible for the fall ... by looking at God's judgement in the aftermath.

God judged and cursed ... Adam
God judged and cursed ... Eve
God judged and cursed ... the serpent

Ergo, they were ALL responsible ...

Click to expand...

Exactly.
It should not be ignored that Eve was deceived by the serpent, she disobeyed and Adam was not deceived, he disobeyed God. Whatever the bible stresses it does so for a reason.

Pedra said:

The Bible states Eve was deceived by Satan, she took and ate of the fruit and offered it to Adam and Adam ate it disobeying GOD.
It is a cautionary tale for any who have ears to hear it.

Click to expand...

Actually, no, the Bible does not say that at all. Satan makes no appearance at all in the Genesis narrative. You are thinking od the serpent. It was over a thousand years later in the second century (AD) that Justin of Samaria was the first to take that interpretation.

A_Thinker said:

You can get a good sense of who's responsible for the fall ... by looking at God's judgement in the aftermath.

God judged and cursed ... Adam
God judged and cursed ... Eve
God judged and cursed ... the serpent

Ergo, they were ALL responsible ...

Click to expand...

Actually, no. While the serpent was indeed cursed, Adam and Eve were not. They were punished not cursed. However, God did curse the earth.

JackRT said:

Actually, no, the Bible does not say that at all. Satan makes no appearance at all in the Genesis narrative. You are thinking od the serpent. It was over a thousand years later in the second century (AD) that Justin of Samaria was the first to take that interpretation.

Click to expand...

So , you don't know that Satan took the form of the serpent?

Pedra said:

So , you don't know that Satan took the form of the serpent?

Click to expand...

I have heard that interpretation. As I just pointed out, it took over a thousand years after Genesis for that to happen.

Pedra said:

What you stated is the common modern feminist argument.

Click to expand...

If you are attached to the term and enjoy brandishing it. Carry on.

I have found an e book that can help you understand the mysteries of live and how to make your family. Access irmthrough this link, Affiliate Offer: Christian Publishing Treasures

JackRT said:

I have heard that interpretation. As I just pointed out, it took over a thousand years after Genesis for that to happen.

Click to expand...

You are wrong.

LaBèlla said:

If you are attached to the term and enjoy brandishing it. Carry on.

Click to expand...

why do you make those kind of remarks? I'm not brandishing anything.
You defended the feminist point of view and I merely noted that.

JackRT said:

Genesis 3:7,8 --- that is, as soon as they ate of the forbidden fruit.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that once the tasting began it all happened very quickly but I read it that when Eve ate her eyes weren't opened until after Adam ate.
Gen_3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen_3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

JackRT said:

I believe it to be that which makes us capable of making moral decisions. It is what separates us from the animals --- it is what makes us fully human. It is also what makes us capable of sin.

Click to expand...

I agree.

The "original sin" was not eating of the fruit. I think it was their attempt to hide from God afterwards.

Click to expand...

I think both are part of "original sin." First in disobeying God through lack of faith/trust and then again through lack of faith/trust in God they didn't turn to Him. Instead they let fear guide their actions.

Pedra said:

I've not found the eisegesis method to interpret scripture accurate or helpful. It psycho-analyses & assigns motives etc....rather then sticking with he facts that have been presented in the scripture.

Click to expand...

You will need more gained knowledge before you can see what I am talking about.

Looks like you learned the word eisegesis as a means to not have to ask questions to find out if you need to learn more than you already know?

We have all been there. That is why we are told not to judge.

Pedra said:

why do you make those kind of remarks? I'm not brandishing anything.

Click to expand...

You do it with me, too! You have an issue that has not been dealt with yet.

genez said:

You do it with me, too! You have an issue that has not been dealt with yet.

Click to expand...

Don't want to stick with the scripture as it is written ---that is your choice.

JackRT said:

Actually, no. While the serpent was indeed cursed, Adam and Eve were not. They were punished not cursed. However, God did curse the earth.

Click to expand...

The things cursed became a curse for Adam, and for mankind. Working by the sweat of his brow. Where as before, all Adam did was leisure and relaxation. Its only by salvation and through sanctification, does God turn a curse into a blessing.

You think the pain a woman experiences in labor is not a curse? But, punishment?
Is every women in labor being "punished?

Its a curse. A curse is something handed down from generation to generation. Punishment is individually based. And, is situational, based upon a personal indiscretion according to each person's own personal life.

Cain was cursed and punished, because what the consequences were died with him.

.

Pedra said:

You are wrong.

Click to expand...

Facts are neither right or wrong, they are simply facts. Interpretations on the other hand, can be right or wrong, but I drew no interpretations.

Pedra said:

Don't want to stick with the scripture as it is written ---that is your choice.

Click to expand...

You think all answers to our problems are to be found in a predetermined passage in black and white?

You would not need to think then. You would only need to memorize.

Correlation by the leading of the Spirit brings us insight. In contrast. Wishful thinking and mental manipulation brings eisegesis.

Exegesis that is sound leads to insight! Insight is the substance of "wisdom."

.

genez said:

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life." Gen 3:17

Click to expand...

Adam was the reason the ground was cursed. Adam himself was not cursed. The toil to make a living was his punishment.

genez said:

You think all answers to our problems are to be found in a predetermined passage in black and white?

You would not need to think then. You would only need to memorize.

Correlation by the leading of the Spirit brings us insight. In contrast. Wishful thinking and mental manipulation brings eisegesis.

Exegesis that is sound leads to insight! Insight is the substance of "wisdom."

.

Click to expand...

You believe the Bible scripture needs human insight. I don't. I rely on the Holy Spirit who authored it.