Women's ultimate responsibility for world's sin

Hank77 said:

Two questions, when were Adam and Eve's eyes opened to the knowledge of good and evil?

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Genesis 3:7,8 --- that is, as soon as they ate of the forbidden fruit.

What is the knowledge of good and evil?

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I believe it to be that which makes us capable of making moral decisions. It is what separates us from the animals --- it is what makes us fully human. It is also what makes us capable of sin. The "original sin" was not eating of the fruit. I think it was their attempt to hide from God afterwards.

JackRT said:

Actually the Bible itself provides the reason:

Genesis 3:
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

It would seem that the Elohim (the pantheon of the gods) were somewhat afraid that since the first couple now knew good from evil, they could not risk that they could live forever.

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Yeah, imagine existing in that state forever? being blamed and blaming others? that would be sheer hell.

A_Thinker said:

There is just a hint of a silver lining in Adam's willingness to fall alongside Eve. His reason for disobeying God ... seems to have been his affinity/love for his wife.

It was a lesson in priorities ... teaching that even as we LOVE our loved ones, ... that LOVE should be secondary to LOVE for God.



Or not ... as it is a bit personal ...

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That's a good point considering, Adam should be fully aware of the thing Eve gave him as God explained this Adam.

This notion is foreign to me. I grew up in a Christian home, attended church almost every Sunday, was in Intervarsity in college, etc. In all that time, I never heard of Eve being blamed for original sin. It was never about women or men being better or worse. It was always about Satan deceiving humanity.

Adan should have realized his mistakes and repented for them both since he was in the best knowledge of it all..... That's whats makes us christian sinners we never acknowledge our mistakes and ask for forgiveness we just blame it on

timewerx said:

And yet, Adam blamed the woman.

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Did he? Or did he really blame God, "the woman that you gave me."

bmjackson said:

First of all, Adam, who had been instructed to care for Eden and was given a helper, therefore he was primarily responsible for what went on there, had failed to keep the serpent out. Perhaps the serpent had already charmed him with flattery.

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Just a point of discussion ...

How would Adam keep the serpent out of the garden ... if
God had allowed it ?

Miles said:

This notion is foreign to me. I grew up in a Christian home, attended church almost every Sunday, was in Intervarsity in college, etc. In all that time, I never heard of Eve being blamed for original sin. It was never about women or men being better or worse. It was always about Satan deceiving humanity.

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This is, typically, the official doctrinal line. But in churches made up of fallen man and women, ... these discussions were often had privately ...

Hank77 said:

Did he? Or did he really blame God, "the woman that you gave me."

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He blamed both.

It’s been mentioned that the seed of the woman supplied the remedy for the situation, however it went down. Cain, Abel and all the others born were from the seed of man and not until Christ was the seed of woman implemented into salvation in the replacement of the old Adam. The natural implication is that the offspring of the seed is the church that came forth from that.

Miles said:

This notion is foreign to me. I grew up in a Christian home, attended church almost every Sunday, was in Intervarsity in college, etc. In all that time, I never heard of Eve being blamed for original sin. It was never about women or men being better or worse. It was always about Satan deceiving humanity.

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I see it, at least in part, as an attempt to shore up patriarchy by blaming the woman as a "weaker vessel". Patriarchy is slowly dying and thank God it is. I regard it as one of the worst evils humanity has ever inflicted on itself.

A_Thinker said:

Just a point of discussion ...

How would Adam keep the serpent out of the garden ... if
God had allowed it ?

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God had given him control of the animals so much that he was able to name them. He was in charge of the garden.

following

bmjackson said:

God had given him control of the animals so much that he was able to name them. He was in charge of the garden.

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God placed everything that was in the garden.

There is no hint in scripture that Adam had anything to do with what was there ... and what was not ...

Genesis 2

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

bmjackson said:

God had given him control of the animals so much that he was able to name them. He was in charge of the garden.

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Also, note that such was not one of the points of judgement God brought against Adam ...

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

A_Thinker said:

God placed everything that was in the garden.

There is no hint in scripture that Adam had anything to do with what was there ... and what was not ...

Genesis 2

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

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Pretty much in control then.

JackRT said:

I see it, at least in part, as an attempt to shore up patriarchy by blaming the woman as a "weaker vessel". Patriarchy is slowly dying and thank God it is. I regard it as one of the worst evils humanity has ever inflicted on itself.

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I was reared in an environment whose principles and Christian influence would be deemed patriarchal by most. With the requisite gender roles joyously occupied by each. The women worked and were well-educated but never sought to diminish their femininity or usurp a man.

I’ve greatly benefited from their example and have never struggled with the principles of headship or been subject to feminism’s reach. I’ve always known my place and made no attempt to reinterpret His directive in any measure.

Honoring His hierarchy does not imply repression or jockeying for position. It requires surrendering our person (and ideals) to His instead. My personal opinion is meaningless if it contradicts Him. That’s how I see it.

LaBèlla said:

I was reared in an environment whose principles and Christian influence would be deemed patriarchal by most. With the requisite gender roles joyously occupied by each. The women worked and were well-educated but never sought to diminish their femininity or usurp a man.

I’ve greatly benefited from their example and have never struggled with the principles of headship or been subject to feminism’s reach. I’ve always known my place and made no attempt to reinterpret His directive in any measure.

Honoring His hierarchy does not imply repression or jockeying for position. It requires surrendering our person (and ideals) to His instead. My personal opinion is meaningless if it contradicts Him. That’s how I see it.

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But I don’t really get how conforming to a shadow gives you any indication of what the substance is w/o having actually Christ there instead of an imperfect human. I mean I get the inference but to not actually experience Christ is just a cheap substitute of make believe.

LoreneDD said:

But I don’t really get how conforming to a shadow gives you any indication of what the substance is w/o having actually Christ there instead of an imperfect human. I mean I get the inference but to not actually experience Christ is just a cheap substitute of make believe.

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Surrender is my aim. The clay has chosen and yielded to the Potter. He sees the final product. I embrace the shaping and sanctification He requires to reach that point.

Man and woman become one flesh in His eyes. The individual is sloughed and refined while the inner transmutes. It is the becoming that is beauteous and sacrosanct. That is the holiness He’s crafting.

The vessels are the avenue for its creation. He uses other elements too. But the friction of togetherness when undertaken with His precepts yields a glorious hue. We are buffing the other lovingly one day at a time.

This is many layered. It harkens back to Paul’s words about being a bondservant and the deeper meaning of the captivity we’ve embraced. It is the greater understanding of the yoke upon our person. When the two are wholly digested and received our metamorphosis is welcomed for its hewing effect on our person.

We bear the yoke and we love it.

The other is but an aspect of Him in a lesser state whose existence is being transformed like our own. And we want it. We crave the end result of His hands.

So we endure it willingly. Lovingly pressing our form against his until the two are no longer visible and oneness has taken shape.

You cannot yield to another until you’ve yielded to Him. When you’re able to present your alabaster (your sacred cows) to the other and forsake its contents in deference to the becoming (the ‘we’). You’re ready.

LaBèlla said:

Leave it to the Hebrew to entertain. ;-)

Adam reminds me of the kid who wanted to make mischief but was too afraid to take the lead. They waited for someone else to make the first move. But once it happened they were all in.

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Satan was watching them and studying their ways. He knew the right time to make his move.

Satan probably overheard conversations they had. How they expressed amazement at the Lord's wisdom and knowledge. Adam may have said... "I wish I could be that way!"

Satan, as any competent spy would, studied them and took notes about what they desired. His lie in the Garden was geared towards what they had talked about. Satan was the first liberal politician running for office. And, they voted.