Women's ultimate responsibility for world's sin

kdm1984 said:

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

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Two questions, when were Adam and Eve's eyes opened to the knowledge of good and evil? What is the knowledge of good and evil?

kdm1984 said:

every sin problem in the world points back to Eve.

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that a girl!

Genesis 4 King James Version (KJV)
4 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord.
That is the beginning of the bad kind of feminism.
Gen 5
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

That is it's healing.

A woman will be a woman and a man will be a man. And I believe a woman is as weak as a man. And a man is as weak as a woman. And i dont believe its so much you do that attracts someone, the inclination should be more towards the heart. We can all do something and still be insincere in our actions. And the only way to have a faithful marriage is to keep it personal and between you and your spouse and the Lord because if a anything there are people out there to destroy marriages. And I also believe Eve acted on a strong impulse because the serpant tempted her in a way to get to her, he only made that impulse stronger which made her listen totghe serpant and bite into the apple and because it seems Eve made Adam weak , he listened to her. So either way they were still submissive to each other just in a more disorderly way , just like an innocent child who doesn't know better and tells a stranger" my mom told me not to get in a car with strangers".. but ends up getting in the car anyway for the stranger strongly enticing the innocent child for not knowing better. But since God already put Adam and Eve together and not for having not being submissive to each other because they were in a way, they we're not seperated from each other, they only became separated from God for having disobeyed him for the serpant enticing Eve and having Adam
biting into the apple also which open thier eyes and made them realize they have disobeyed God. I think that's why God said to not eat from the knowledge of evil and good for them having thier eyes closed in the first place. Because knowing thier eyes were open now their eyes was open to everything else including thier nakedness.. lol jk but because it was a bad apple by having them biting into it, they corrupted the whole earth under the serpants request. So I think the moral of the story is for not only for us to be submissive to our spouse but we should be submissive to God too to respect both our wives and husband and to remain within God in a oneness with our mate and I also believe just like the serpant what God has put together, let no one separate..

kdm1984 said:

Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor.

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Don't you think that this is a bit far-fetched?

(never mind, since you edited your OP)

kdm1984 said:

EDIT: I have adjusted my thesis on this a bit after further discussion and analysis of Scripture with some here. Woman was deceived, but Scripture says sin came through one man (Adam), so I no longer view sin as fully woman's responsibility. See pages 6, 7, 8 of this thread for further explanation and context.

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I see. Thanks. Good night.

LaBèlla said:

Yeah, I’ve thought about that. Why didn’t he say no. I’ve questioned if the desire to eat was lurking in his heart as well. He didn’t put up a fight.

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If I remember the lesson correctly... The Hebrew is revealing. It says something to the effect, that when he finally got his hands on the fruit that he kept on munching and munching it down. It was not a matter of casually eating it. That he kept on eating vigorously.

Evidently after hearing the lie, Adam had been having a strong desire to be as wise as the Lord. Its possible he may have felt a bit jealous of how Eve admired the Lord for his wisdom while teaching them. Adam wanted to eat that fruit with that goal in mind.

Hank77 said:

Two questions, when were Adam and Eve's eyes opened to the knowledge of good and evil? What is the knowledge of good and evil?

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Up until when they fell they had no need to know good and evil. For anything they did was safe and without consequence, as long as they did not eat from the forbidden tree.

Once fallen, they now needed to learn such things as... "This is good. Do this. This is evil. Avoid this." Before they fell they simply lived moment to moment without any fear, nor concern for anything. So to speak, now they had to be careful look both ways before crossing the street.

The first evil they learned about? Had been what they did when they ate the fruit. They learned... "that's bad! That was evil!" Before they fell, the use of the words, - "that is bad" - was never used. For there had been no perception of evil in their lives. They now had a knowledge of what good and evil means.

LaBèlla said:

Adam could have intervened. He had many opportunities to do so before she ate. His complicity and inaction was duly punished.

A feminist could turn your argument on its head and lay the blame at his feet because he failed to man up and protect her. They would call his behavior passive and probably digress into diatribes about beta males ad nauseam.

God charged both with sin. Our natural reason doesn’t set aside His wisdom. I am not a feminist but I can see a litany of holes in your theory. Let’s stick with His instead.

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first, the Hebrew fall from Eden story is parallel to the Greek myth of Pandora

both populations are part of the same Mediterranean culture continent, sharing deep mythic memories of prehistory

offer this is about the agricultural revolution and transition from hunting and gathering to farming = genesis 3:19

agriculture was an outgrowth of gathering vegetable resources, uncritically accepted, agriculture began with fertile crescent fruit trees... Dates???

which women learned to cultivate while "the menfolk were away hunting"

until women started contributing more calories to the community than the hunters, "giving fruit"

major social adjustments ensued, with many remembering the good old golden days

mythic memory is plausibly based on real historical events?

Neogaia777 said:

I don't know...? Did he or did he not...? Scripture says he was not deceived...?

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And yet, Adam blamed the woman.

timewerx said:

And yet, Adam blamed the woman.

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I still don't know if that gives us any insight as to how much Adam knew about it though, or his knowledge of good and evil, how deceived or not deceived he was, etc, what the fruit was before he ate it or not, etc...?

First of all, Adam, who had been instructed to care for Eden and was given a helper, therefore he was primarily responsible for what went on there, had failed to keep the serpent out. Perhaps the serpent had already charmed him with flattery.

So now the serpent was present and Adam was very near when he worked his charm on the woman. Adam did not protect her. When the deed was found out, Adam blamed the woman. Then he blamed God for giving the woman to him. No responsibility. Eve did not do this. She just told the truth - that she had been deceived. She could have blamed Adam as he was the one who held responsibility and failed to protect her but she didn't.

It was Adam who was banned from Edam, not Eve. She did chose to go with him and because of this God told her what her fate would be - she would become subservient to the man. This was due to what God knew about the man not what He prescribed. Man is the cause of much of the evil in the world. A woman can also become 'bad' but it is usually because she has been damaged.

There is enough blame to go around, so why play this blame game. It happened, it was wrong and we are paying for it in all manners of sin, death and destruction for both genders. Our redemption is coming through a man, who died on a cross, that we may have a way of salvation from all this. That is what is most important.

It was not in the body of a female that redemption came. I wonder why that is if it was the female who started it all by being the first to sin.

Does not God ultimately think that man is more responsible for this first mistake and that is why it says ...
1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Adam had complete free will and knew what he was doing. Maybe he was watching to see what would happen to her.

They really disobeyed God at the same time. He did not discourage Eve.

timewerx said:

And yet, Adam blamed the woman.

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Which is exactly what you'd expect from someone that got caught.

genez said:

If I remember the lesson correctly... The Hebrew is revealing. It says something to the effect, that when he finally got his hands on the fruit that he kept on munching and munching it down. It was not a matter of casually eating it. That he kept on eating vigorously.

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Leave it to the Hebrew to entertain. ;-)

Adam reminds me of the kid who wanted to make mischief but was too afraid to take the lead. They waited for someone else to make the first move. But once it happened they were all in.

Guojing said:

Some preachers believed that Adam saw Eve "died spiritually" when she ate the fruit. He was unwilling to let her die alone, so he ate that fruit too, to join in with her.

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There is just a hint of a silver lining in Adam's willingness to fall alongside Eve. His reason for disobeying God ... seems to have been his affinity/love for his wife.

It was a lesson in priorities ... teaching that even as we LOVE our loved ones, ... that LOVE should be secondary to LOVE for God.

Guojing said:

I guess only in heaven will we ever know what went down at that moment.

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Or not ... as it is a bit personal ...

Hank77 said:

Two questions, when were Adam and Eve's eyes opened to the knowledge of good and evil? What is the knowledge of good and evil?

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I would posit ... that the knowledge of good and evil ... is, in fact, the EXPERIENCE of good AND evil.

To the point where they ate from the tree, ... they had only experienced GOOD. The EVIL was yet to come.

LaBèlla said:

Yeah, I’ve thought about that. Why didn’t he say no. I’ve questioned if the desire to eat was lurking in his heart as well. He didn’t put up a fight.

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They were quite imperfect ...