Women's ultimate responsibility for world's sin
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klutedavid
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Thank you. It was as I expected, an analysis of internal evidence. I am reading Zechariah, and the 19th century commentators I am reading along with them (Albert Barnes and Adam Clarke) say the last two chapters were not written by Zechariah for some of the same reasons you listed above.
These things may be so, but all is still conjecture on analysts parts. I don't trust analysts. And I am shy of making definitive statements as tho these things are facts, when they are not. They are still just men's opinions.
You were very gracious to provide such exhaustive references. I know that takes a while to type in. Thank you for responding to my request.
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Doesn't take social studies. Any married man who has a good marriage will attest to that.
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- Oct 10, 2011
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He will rule over you because of your desire to control your husband, or because of his desire to rule over you you will be led into a desire to control your husband, or...?
Wait a minute...? The chicken and the egg!, the chicken and the egg!
God Bless!
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- Oct 10, 2011
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Define "good marriage"...?
And what if it all goes bad...?
We see what Adam submitting himself to his wife brought about...?
God Bless!
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Strictly my opinion that I will not argue for, but I think the word "curse" comes from hard hearts. What God pronounced the consequence of sin, which we view as a curse.
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GenemZ
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The woman was deceived. The man knew what he was doing.
God placed the responsibility on the man, not the woman.
That is why Jesus could not have a human father, but could have a human mother. Her ovum does not pass down the sin nature.
Romans 15:12 tells us that sin entered the world through one man. Its been ever since the male's "seed" that passes on the sin nature in copulation. Not the woman's ovum. That is why we read in Genesis 3:15, that the messiah would be born of the woman's seed!
God saw Adam as the responsible party.
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Very good, but who wears the pants...?
Does one with the right strength wear the pants, whether it is the male or the female...? And it does not matter, or what...? Is it just the particular strength that matters, or what...?
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There is nothing wrong with loving your partner, serving her, and heeding godly counsel. It’s something else to surrender the reins and crown her king.
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You write an interesting argument for rejecting feminism, kdm, but I think I have to side with most of the others in saying that there are better arguments for rejecting feminism, and more to the story in Scriptures that actually supports other arguments better.
One thing I ask myself often is "What is this particular passage in the Bible trying to tell me about the nature of God or the nature of mankind?" And I compare stories to see what I can glean there. Let's pick the story...say...the prophet who was traveling and God told him do NOT stop to eat but go there and come right back, but the local prophet there told the traveling prophet that God had told the local prophet to have the traveler eat with him. After the meal, the local prophet prophesied the death of the traveling prophet, one can assume it had something to do with disobeying, although the local prophet gave the traveling prophet honor in his death. You might remember that it seemed very evident that God had a hand in this plan because the lion that slew the traveling prophet was sitting there, along with the donkey, until someone came to get the traveling prophet. One would gather from comparing the stories that human nature has a clannish desire to allow someone else to lead, and in some cases, like when it's God, we would do well to obey in spite of anyone. Even Peter feel to this one when he would eat with the Gentiles until the people from James came down, then he withdrew because the Jews in general would not eat with others, and his hypocrisy almost led Barnabas astray. The tendency we have to fall away from God into the safety of humans hasn't stopped there. Jesus told us to not love anyone more than God, which is simply the first commandment stated another way. We'll probably never know what would have happened had Adam stood up and said NO, I refuse to disobey God. We do know that when Ninevah repented, so did God repent of His fierce judgement, although they later fell. Perhaps Adam's refusal then would have only postponed an act of rebellion later. We do see also that God didn't micromanage Adam and Eve, and He didn't keep the traveling prophet from the consequences of his disobedience. So I took the stories, came up with a reasonable intent, and now I can look to see what other scriptures support that idea or refute it. In most cases I'll learn something about the nature of God and the nature of man that will help me as I live today.
Of the many things I can learn from the Garden story, I don't find it helpful to think that if I am attacked, raped, and or murdered, that I should agree that since women brought sin into the world, it's just retribution. I believe, as scripture teaches, that whether I'm in the field or the city, if someone tries to perpetrate harm on me, I'm going to give strong effort to see that the court has a chance to deal out justice, since they are the arm of God to do that, at the same time praying that God will have mercy and give repentance to the perpetrator. And it wouldn't matter were I male or female, I would think it a sensible course to disable someone demonstrating their intentions to harm others. Just recently a young woman was shot dead a few miles from here, someone related to someone I know. At her funeral, one old man stood praying that people would forgive the murderer and not harbor hate in their hearts while the next man speaking said, yes, Lord, but we want Your justice on this murderer, that we forgive him but that YOU take him to justice and show mercy. It was one of those amazing moments where in my heart, I saw my prayer to be that this murderer would take on the life he took, by taking on the kindly actions the girl demonstrated during her life. What mercy and what justice it would be for him to trade his evil in true repentance and become a doer of the good she had been doing, living a righteous life from here on! And God clearly delights in showing kindness and mercy, along with justice: Jeremiah 9.24. If not, I feel sure he will forfeit what life he has, with no gain for having forced the loss of her life.
Like everyone here, we're all trying to make sense out of what we see in life and what we see in Scriptures, hopefully with the good help of the Comforter who reminds us of how Jesus fleshed out the words of God as He lived as the Word among us. Definitely none of us can claim entitlement by having been better than Adam and Eve, because if it hadn't been them, it would have been at least one of us, and I daresay, it would have been all of us. May we all see through the deceit by drawing ever closer to the Truth Himself.
One thing I ask myself often is "What is this particular passage in the Bible trying to tell me about the nature of God or the nature of mankind?" And I compare stories to see what I can glean there. Let's pick the story...say...the prophet who was traveling and God told him do NOT stop to eat but go there and come right back, but the local prophet there told the traveling prophet that God had told the local prophet to have the traveler eat with him. After the meal, the local prophet prophesied the death of the traveling prophet, one can assume it had something to do with disobeying, although the local prophet gave the traveling prophet honor in his death. You might remember that it seemed very evident that God had a hand in this plan because the lion that slew the traveling prophet was sitting there, along with the donkey, until someone came to get the traveling prophet. One would gather from comparing the stories that human nature has a clannish desire to allow someone else to lead, and in some cases, like when it's God, we would do well to obey in spite of anyone. Even Peter feel to this one when he would eat with the Gentiles until the people from James came down, then he withdrew because the Jews in general would not eat with others, and his hypocrisy almost led Barnabas astray. The tendency we have to fall away from God into the safety of humans hasn't stopped there. Jesus told us to not love anyone more than God, which is simply the first commandment stated another way. We'll probably never know what would have happened had Adam stood up and said NO, I refuse to disobey God. We do know that when Ninevah repented, so did God repent of His fierce judgement, although they later fell. Perhaps Adam's refusal then would have only postponed an act of rebellion later. We do see also that God didn't micromanage Adam and Eve, and He didn't keep the traveling prophet from the consequences of his disobedience. So I took the stories, came up with a reasonable intent, and now I can look to see what other scriptures support that idea or refute it. In most cases I'll learn something about the nature of God and the nature of man that will help me as I live today.
Of the many things I can learn from the Garden story, I don't find it helpful to think that if I am attacked, raped, and or murdered, that I should agree that since women brought sin into the world, it's just retribution. I believe, as scripture teaches, that whether I'm in the field or the city, if someone tries to perpetrate harm on me, I'm going to give strong effort to see that the court has a chance to deal out justice, since they are the arm of God to do that, at the same time praying that God will have mercy and give repentance to the perpetrator. And it wouldn't matter were I male or female, I would think it a sensible course to disable someone demonstrating their intentions to harm others. Just recently a young woman was shot dead a few miles from here, someone related to someone I know. At her funeral, one old man stood praying that people would forgive the murderer and not harbor hate in their hearts while the next man speaking said, yes, Lord, but we want Your justice on this murderer, that we forgive him but that YOU take him to justice and show mercy. It was one of those amazing moments where in my heart, I saw my prayer to be that this murderer would take on the life he took, by taking on the kindly actions the girl demonstrated during her life. What mercy and what justice it would be for him to trade his evil in true repentance and become a doer of the good she had been doing, living a righteous life from here on! And God clearly delights in showing kindness and mercy, along with justice: Jeremiah 9.24. If not, I feel sure he will forfeit what life he has, with no gain for having forced the loss of her life.
Like everyone here, we're all trying to make sense out of what we see in life and what we see in Scriptures, hopefully with the good help of the Comforter who reminds us of how Jesus fleshed out the words of God as He lived as the Word among us. Definitely none of us can claim entitlement by having been better than Adam and Eve, because if it hadn't been them, it would have been at least one of us, and I daresay, it would have been all of us. May we all see through the deceit by drawing ever closer to the Truth Himself.
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GenemZ
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The Bible tells us that...
The woman was deceived. The man knew what he was doing.
The Bible also tells us that God placed the responsibility for sin on the man, not the woman.
It is why Jesus could not have a human father. But, he could have a human mother. For the woman's ovum does not pass down the sin nature. Its the male's seed that does.
Romans 15:12 tells us that sin entered the world through one man. Its been ever since the male's "seed" that passes on the sin nature in copulation. Not the woman's ovum.
That is why we read in Genesis 3:15, that the Messiah would be born of the woman's seed!
God sees Adam as the responsible party.
The Holy Spirit had to provide the perfect male genetic material to fertilize the chosen ovum that came from Mary's body.
The woman was deceived. The man knew what he was doing.
The Bible also tells us that God placed the responsibility for sin on the man, not the woman.
It is why Jesus could not have a human father. But, he could have a human mother. For the woman's ovum does not pass down the sin nature. Its the male's seed that does.
Romans 15:12 tells us that sin entered the world through one man. Its been ever since the male's "seed" that passes on the sin nature in copulation. Not the woman's ovum.
That is why we read in Genesis 3:15, that the Messiah would be born of the woman's seed!
God sees Adam as the responsible party.
The Holy Spirit had to provide the perfect male genetic material to fertilize the chosen ovum that came from Mary's body.
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I hadn't ever quite thought of it that way, but that makes perfect sense.
One thing feminists don't consider -- do you really want the responsibility men have on them? In some ways, women's lives are easier. Housework and raising children isn't like leading nations, going to war, or building complex machinery. Men are held to much higher standards and have greater consequences for failure. They face stricter judgment, as teachers and leaders. "Brethren, let few of you be teachers..."
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I understand you disagreed strongly with my post, but your tone is getting increasingly disappointing. We've had several good discussions here in the past, and I've always respected your posts, as you seem to have mine.
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