Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

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yeshuaslavejeff

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Yes, their land has been restored to them but there are many within the ranks of the body of Christ who insist on denying that.
Yes, just as there were many antichrists among the true Ekklesia in the first century also, so it is today, still or again, and much worse today than ever before, and getting steadily and quickly worse day to day....
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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yeshuaslavejeff said:
As Promised, Yahuweh restored their land to them..... and even more wonderful is coming !
Yes, their land has been restored to them but there are many within the ranks of the body of Christ who insist on denying that.
So what is all the hoopla all about?
It is finished.............
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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So what is all the hoopla all about?
It is finished.............

Many are still lost, deceived, deceiving others, not living as disciples , not following Jesus .... some perhaps lost lambs or lost sheep, needing to be , as it were, brought back to Jesus to be nurtured, cared for, brougnt to a place of rest for their soul....
 
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jgr

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“You have finally, unmistakably if unwittingly, acknowledged the reality of genetic ubiquity.”


No one denies that interbreeding between various different ethnic groups and nationalities takes place. I never denied that. That just proves that we are all descendants of Adam. What is disputed is your claim that we are all descendants of Abraham, specifically of the line of Isaac.


“And all of their progeny also carried some quantity of Abraham's DNA.

What then of those progeny? Did they cease to mix with surrounding nations? Or did they repeat the mixing processes, with Abraham's DNA spreading out to and into Gentile bloodlines ever farther and farther from the Abrahamic source?

And what then of their progeny? Did the mixing processes cease, or did they continue?

And their progeny?

And theirs?

Ad innumeratum.

The answer is self-evident…. Abraham's physical DNA is in all of us.”


No, the answer is not as self-evident as you claim. In order to determine whether everyone is a direct descendant of Abraham and more specifically, from the line of Isaac and Jacob, DNA comparisons of people from every tribe, nationality, and ethnicity would have to be made and not just a few individuals from each, but from thousands if not hundreds of thousands or even millions.

The DNA of every ethnic group has genetic information unique unto itself that biologically distinguishes it from all the rest. And the Jewish bloodline is no exception to this.

Until such a test can be made, it would be preposterous to think that all of present day humanity descends from the Israelites.

Here are your millions, direct from a Jewish mouth:

"And indeed, the number of people in the world today with the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” is too large to count precisely. A reasonable estimate is in the hundreds of millions."

Preposterous?
 
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Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:14-16 The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.

1/ Israel, the chosen people of God: Exodus 15:13, Deuteronomy 33:3, Ezra 3:11
Christians, chosen of God: Romans 9:25, Ephesians 5:1, Col. 3:12, 1 John 3:1, Rev. 7:9

2/ Israel, the children of God: Deut. 14:1, Isaiah 1:2-4, Isaiah 63:8, Hosea 11:1
Christians, the children of God: John 1:12, Romans 8:14-16, Galatians 4:5-7, 1 John 3:1

3/ Israel, the scattered sheep of God: Psalms 78:52, Isaiah 40:11, Jer. 23:1-4, Ezekiel 34:12
Christians, His sheep: among the nations: John 10:14-16, Hebrews 13:20, 1 Peter 2:25

4/ Israel, God’s household: Hebrews 3:5, 1 Chronicles 29:14-18
Christians are God’s household: Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 10:20-21, I Timothy 3:15, 1 Cor.3:9

5/ Israel are the priests of God: Exodus 19:6, Deuteronomy 27:9
Christians are the priests of God: Isaiah 66:21, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 1:6, Revelation 5:10

6/ Israel is the bride of God: Isaiah 54:5-6, Jeremiah 2:2, Ezekiel 16:32, Hosea 1:2
Christians are the bride of Christ: Isaiah 62:4-5, 2 Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:29-32

7/ Israel is the vine and the olive tree: Isaiah 5:7, Hosea 9:10, Hosea 14:6-7
Christians are the vine and the olive: Luke 20:16, Romans 11:24

8/ Israelites are the circumcised: Genesis 17:9-14, Judges 15:18
Christians are the ‘circumcised’: Romans 2:25-29, Philippians 3:3, Col. 2:11

9/ Israelites are the children of Abraham: 2 Chronicles 20:7, Psalms 105:5-6, Isaiah 41:8
Christians are the spiritual children of Abraham: Romans 4:13-18, Gal. 3:7& 29, John 4:23

10/ The Covenant is with Israel: Deuteronomy 4:31, 2 Kings 17:34-36, Psalms 105:7-10
The New Covenant is with Christians: 1 Corinthians 11:25, Hebrews 8:6-10, Ezekiel 34:25


“Those believers who love the Lord and keep His commandments, that is: every faithful Christian person are designated by God to be Israelites. Galatians 6:14-16 The New Testament writings are clear: there is only one Israel, who are the only one Church, only one elect, be they Jew or Gentile by birth.”


The New Testament does not state that the Church is Israel in the literal sense but only in the spiritual. When Paul in the cited passage blessed “the Israel of God”, there is no evidence, contextually speaking, that he was referring to any other entity other than the people of Israel. In fact, he was blessing both the Church and Israel yet recognizing them as separate entities.

The scriptures have made it plain that the literal Israel which is of the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, will continue to abide, which is why we can be sure that the Church will continue to abide as well.

Eventually, as Paul stated (Rom. 9:27, 11:26) the nation of Israel will become a part of the body of Christ when they finally receive their Messiah.

As for the rest of what you wrote, for the most part, I have no dispute.
 
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So what is all the hoopla all about?
It is finished.............


The entire debate of this thread is about the integrity of God. If He is faithful in keeping His promises to one group of people, then we can be sure that He will do the same for us, but if He cancels His promises to one group of people, how can we be so sure that He will not do the same to us?

One problem with Preterism, (I will not go into all the rest) is that in claiming that all that has been said and foretold concerning Israel has been abolished, it attacks the integrity of God, even though I know that is not in the heart of everyone who adheres to Preterist theology.
 
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Here are your millions, direct from a Jewish mouth:

"And indeed, the number of people in the world today with the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” is too large to count precisely. A reasonable estimate is in the hundreds of millions."

Preposterous?


The cited article is centered only on Mid-Eastern peoples and not on all of humanity in general and neither is its focus specifically narrowed down to the line of Isaac. Furthermore, it seems that you have also overlooked the fact that Abraham also had a son named Ishmael from whom the Arabs claim descent.

That being the case, it is no surprise to me that there would be genetic similarities shared between the Jews and Arabs which the article focuses on, but it never focuses on the genetic differences between them.

The scriptures do state that Abraham would be the father of many nations, which include more than just the Israelites, and the focus of that article was about scientific evidence for the fulfillment of that promise, but there is no claim that all of present day mankind is descended from Abraham. An estimate of "hundreds of millions" does not mean "billions" in which all of mankind is presently numbered.
 
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claninja

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Wrong.
Romans 9:20 says that God will call us Christians His people, in the very place that He called the ancient Israelites: Not My people.
Also Revelation 7:9 shows all the Christians in Jerusalem and Rev 12 depicts the scene when Satan comes to the earth and persecutes them.

Sure, let's test your "wrong" statement.

first romans 9:20 is not the right verse:
who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

I think your thinking of
romans 9:26 And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’

So does romans 9:26 clearly and explicitly mention land restoration? No it does not. So this would be your debatable interpretation.

Romans 9:24-26 is Paul quoting hosea 1:10 and 2:23 as being fulfilled with the inclusion of the gentiles with the Jews in the vessels of mercy. This was being fulfilled in the 1st century.

Additionally, it appears you're stating the "will call us Christians His people, in that very place" would mean that we are not his people yet but must wait till we are in the land to be called his people? That doesn't really make sense.

What was the exact location that God told hosea the northern kingdom was no longer his people? scripture doesn't say.

However, God declared gentiles his people to Peter in Joppa, which was located in the northern part of the land of Israel. This was further demonstrated by gentiles receiving the spirit in caesarea, which was also located in the northern part of the land of Israel. This was during the 1st century.



Additionally revelation 7:9 does not clearly or specifically mention land restoration. We only have your debatable interpretation.

Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb.

Isn't heaven God's throne?

Isaiah 66:1 Thus says the Lord:“Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool;

He promised it to the Patriarchs and their descendants, who are now every faithful Christian. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:6-8

The promises were made to a singular descendant, not plural. Jesus is the descendent to whom the promises apply.

Galatians 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ

Just read all of Jeremiah 31.

Specifics in Jeremiah 31 that have not yet been fulfilled?

We Christians are the plurality of Abrahams descendants thru Jesus. 1 Peter 2:9-10

and yet we are one in Christ. Christ is the singular seed to whom the promises belong. Those in the body of Christ are one in Christ, just as a husband and wife are one. Thus we are co heirs.

Where does Christ currently own the world, which includes the land of Israel, from?



Humans never go to heaven, Jesus said so. John 3:13
Your 4 quotes all refer to the time after the Millennium, when God and therefore heaven; come to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7

When and where did Jesus receive the kingdom? upon his resurrection and ascension to heaven. why would it be different for believers?

And we surely did! 2 billion and counting, Christians in the world now. Most are Abrahams descendants by genetics and all by faith.

No argument here. I would take it even further and state just about all the people of the world have Abrahamic dna due mathematics and ubiquity.
 
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BABerean2

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This thread is not about who and who is not of Jewish descent. It is about whether or not the promise of land restoration to the Jews is still in effect.

Once again, your second sentence stands in direct opposition to your first sentence...

.
 
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BABerean2

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There is only one Israel in the literal sense, meaning the Israel descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The title of Israel placed upon the Church is a figurative one and does not replace the literal. If the literal Israel is not guaranteed preservation and if the promises pertaining to them are not fulfilled, then we as the Church, cannot be confident in the promises given to us.

You are attempting to totally ignore the fact that on the day of Pentecost about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Those approximately 3,000 members of the early Church were direct descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Therefore, the Church and Israel cannot be separated.
The Gentiles were not grafted in until several years later.

How did Peter address the crowd on that day?


Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

.
 
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keras

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The scriptures have made it plain that the literal Israel which is of the line of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, will continue to abide, which is why we can be sure that the Church will continue to abide as well.
The Israel of God will abide forever. But not the false Israel of the Jewish State of Israel. Isaiah 22:14, +

The Bible is crystal clear; there is only ONE people of God, His Victorious ones, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation, The Overcomers for God; literally the Israelites of God.
You seen to have been fooled by the 'rapture to heaven' believers. They must have Jewish Israel on earth, while they strum harps in heaven. Neither theory will happen.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Israel of God will abide forever. But not the false Israel of the Jewish State of Israel. Isaiah 22:14, +
The Bible is crystal clear; there is only ONE people of God, His Victorious ones, as seen in each of the seven Church's of Revelation, The Overcomers for God; literally the Israelites of God.
You seen to have been fooled by the 'rapture to heaven' believers. They must have Jewish Israel on earth, while they strum harps in heaven. Neither theory will happen.
Also the false religion of Judaism........
That false religious City in Revelation is 1st century Jerusalem.....

Jer 6:1
“O you children of Benjamin, Gather yourselves to flee from the midst of Jerusalem!
Blow the trumpet in Tekoa, And set up a signal-fire in Beth Haccerem;
For disaster appears out of the north, And great destruction.

Phl 3:2
Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the circumcision!

2 Corin 6:17
wherefore come-forth
<exelqete<1831> out<1537> of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord

Hey lookie here! The OC Jews are being brought before the NC Jews......huh?

Rev 3:9
To the Church in Philadelphia
“Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.
=============================
Revelation 18:4
And I hear another Voice out of the heaven saying "come forth!<exelqete 1831> out of Her My people......................

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 9. - Behold I give of the synagogue of Satan. The true reading seems to be neither δίδωμι nor δέδωκα, but διδῶ, from the form διδόω, which is fairly common in classical Greek. The construction, ἐκ τῆς- συναγωγῆς, the partitive genitive used as subject or object of a verb, is frequent in St. John's writings (John 1:24; John 7:40; John 16:17:2 John 4; comp. John 6:39; John 21:10). The Church of Smyrna was encouraged with a promise that their Jewish opponents should not be victorious over them. The Philadelphian Christians are told that they shall be victorious over their Jewish opponents. As before (Revelation 2:9), those who "say they are Jews, and they are not," are Jews who refuse to believe in the Messiah and reject the Gospel. The only true Jews are those who accept the Christ. They are not, but do lie. Antithetic parallelism, as in ver. 8 and Revelation 2:13. I will make them to come and worship at thy feet. This would be fulfilled when the destruction of Jerusalem drove large numbers of Jews into Asia Minor. Every city which had previously had a Jewish colony would then receive a great influx of refugees. This augmented Jewish settlement at Philadelphia was to furnish some converts to the Christian Church; but, as we learn from the epistles of Ignatius, these converts tainted the Church with a stubborn form of Judaistic error. Hence the need of the warning in ver. 11. Compare "The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet" (Isaiah 60:14; Isaiah 49:23). Know that I have loved thee. The "I" is emphatic: "I will cause them to recoginize that in this you received a blessing manifestly Divine."
=================================
Proof: The Temple Mount is Not @ Dome of the Rock
 
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keras

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I think your thinking of romans 9:26 And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’
Yes Romans 9:26 clearly says:....in the very place... In the same location; in the holy Land.
The context of this prophecy must be carefully studied: Paul is telling us about how we Christians have received God's mercy, prepared for glory.
We Christian believers, Jew and Gentile, were not God's people, but are now to be called; sons of the Living God.
Where will that happen? As many OT prophesies tell us; we will be gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after the devastation of the Lord's Day of fiery wrath.
If this scenario does not fit with your beliefs, then we have no further basis for discussion and only as the end times events unfold, will the truth be revealed.to all.
When and where did Jesus receive the kingdom? upon his resurrection and ascension to heaven. why would it be different for believers?
Why don't you read what the Bible tells us?
When we die, we go to the grave and know nothing until we stand before the Great White Throne.
Provided our name is Written in the Book of Life, we will receive spiritual bodies and will live with God forever, on earth. Revelation 21:1-7
 
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claninja

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Yes Romans 9:26 clearly says:....in the very place... In the same location; in the holy Land.
The context of this prophecy must be carefully studied: Paul is telling us about how we Christians have received God's mercy, prepared for glory.
We Christian believers, Jew and Gentile, were not God's people, but are now to be called; sons of the Living God.
Where will that happen? As many OT prophesies tell us; we will be gathered into all of the holy Land, soon after the devastation of the Lord's Day of fiery wrath.
If this scenario does not fit with your beliefs, then we have no further basis for discussion and only as the end times events unfold, will the truth be revealed.to all.

Right, romans 9:26 states "in the very place". Where did God declare gentiles his people? According to acts 10 in Joppa and Caesaria, which are located in the northern territory of the land of Israel.

Thus it was already being fulfilled in the 1st century with gentiles being included with the Jews as the vessels of mercy.


Considering your history of false future prophetic teachings and date settings that failed to come to pass (FaithWriters.com-Christian Prophecy - COMING WORLD CHANGES), I should have no reason to believe your interpretation of the OT is correct, especially considering you cannot back it up with NT scripture.


Why don't you read what the Bible tells us?
When we die, we go to the grave and know nothing until we stand before the Great White Throne.
Provided our name is Written in the Book of Life, we will receive spiritual bodies

Jesus died, rose again, ascended to heaven to receive the kingdom

Daniel 7:13-14 In my vision in the night I continued to watch, and I saw One like a Son of Man
coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into His presence. And He was given dominion, glory, and kingdom, that the people of every nation and language
should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away,
and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Luke 19:12 He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return

Why would this be different for believers? Why would believers not inherit the kingdom following the resurrection and ascension to heaven?

we will receive spiritual bodies and will live with God forever, on earth. Revelation 21:1-7

The new Jerusalem is the body of Christ:


1.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are the Bride of the lamb
Revelation 20:9-10 Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, “Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,

Ephesians 5:31-32 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.

2.)Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are built on the foundations of the prophets
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Ephesians 2:20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone

3.) Both the New Jerusalem and the Body of Christ are where God dwells with his people.
Revelation 21:3 Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God

Ephesians 2:21 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, “I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 
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pasifika

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Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
Isa 65:19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

.
Hello, the earth is still there after the second coming and during the 1000years of Christ reign on earth...

Revelation 20:4-6..."I saw thrones on which were seated those who had given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. I also saw those who had not worship the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years...(this only the righteous )

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended...(unrighteous or sinners )

This is the first resurrection...

The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years...

Where is Christ reign with his people during the thousand years?

Rev 20:7-9
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth (second resurrection )-Gog and Magog- and to gather them for battle..

Verse 9...They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of Gods people, the city He loves...

Isn't this city refer to mount Zion the city of the living God...Hebrews 12:22,

Psalms 87:1,2

NB:

This earth is Not a NEW earth as yet...as it disappear according Rev 20:11...
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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BABerean2 said:
Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. 18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Hello, the earth is still there after the second coming and during the 1000years of Christ reign on earth...
Verse 9...They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of Gods people, the city He loves...
Isn't this city refer to mount Zion the city of the living God...Hebrews 12:22,
Psalms 87:1,2
NB:This earth is Not a NEW earth as yet...as it disappear according Rev 20:11...
The unbelieving Jews of today need to read the NT in order to understand their New Heaven and Earth, which we NC Christians in Jesus now reside..............

Isaiah 1:1-2, "…Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth." The physical creation?

Isa 40:27
Why do you say, O Jacob,And speak, O Israel:
My way is hidden from the LORD,
And my just claim is passed over by my God”?

Isa 48:6
“You have heard;See all this.And will you not declare it?
I have made you hear new things from this time, Even hidden things, and you did not know them.

2Co 5:17
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Rev 21:5
Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me,[fn] “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”


Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT
I am putting this topic up on the CT board because of the controversial nature of it and that it may evolve into the realm of what is called "full preterism/realized eschatology" which can only be discussed on this board.

With that aside, I would like to put up the Preterist perspective from a Preterist site.

I am of the Covenantle view, of both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation, and will explain more about that was we get further along with this thread.

For now, here are a few Preterist views
[of course, both partial and full futurists can also post their views
FUTURISTS
(Virtually No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st C. - Types Only ; Also Included are "Higher Critics" Not Associated With Any Particular Eschatology)]
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The New Heavens and Earth | Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

New Heavens and Earth
Global, Covenantal, or Personal?

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens, and a new earth." II Peter 3:13

John Brown (1853)
" 'Heaven and earth passing,' understood literally, is the dissolution of the present system of the universe, and the period when that is to take place, is called the 'end of the world.' But a person at all familiar with the phraseology of the Old Testament Scriptures, knows that the dissolution of the Mosaic economy, and the establishment of the Christian, is often spoken of as the removing of the old earth and heavens, and the creation of a new earth and new heavens" (vol. 1, p. 170)

"It appears, then, that is Scripture be the best interpreter of Scripture, we have in the Old Testament a key to the interpretation of the prophecies in the New. The same symbolism is found in both, and the imagery of Isaiah, Ezekiel, and the other prophets helps us to understand the imagery of St. Matthew, St. Peter, and St. John. As the dissolution of the material world is not necessary to the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, neither is it necessary to the accomplishment of the predictions of the New Testament. But though symbols are metaphorical expressions, they are not unmeaning. It is not necessary to allegorise them, and find a corresponding equivalent for every trope; it is sufficient to regard the imagery as employed to heighten the sublimity of the prediction and to clothe it with impressiveness and grandeur. There are, at the same time, a true propriety and an underlying reality in the symbols of prophecy. The moral and spiritual facts which they represent, the social and ecumenical changes which they typify, could not be adequately set forth by language less majestic and sublime. There is reason for believing that an inadequate apprehension of the real grandeur and significance of such events as the destruction of Jerusalem and the abrogation of the Jewish economy lies at the root of that system of interpretation which maintains that nothing answering to the symbols of the New Testament prophecy has ever taken place. Hence the uncritical and unscriptural figments of double senses, and double, triple, and multiple fulfillments of prophecy. That physical disturbances in nature and extraordinary phenomena in the heavens and in the earth may have accompanied the expiring throes of the Jewish dispensation we are not prepared to deny. It seems to us highly probable that such things were. But the literal fulfillment of the symbols is not essential to the verification of prophecy, which is abundantly proved to be true by the recorded facts of history." (vol. i. p.200).

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Isaiah 51:15-16 | Hebrews 12:25-29

Another example of "heaven and earth" being referred to the Covenant World of Israel, and not literal creation, is Isaiah 51:16, "And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Notice that God is speaking to Israel. He says he gave them his law, the Old Covenant, the same law Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 5:17-18, to establish heaven and lay the foundation of the earth!

Clearly God is not saying he gave the Old Covenant to Israel to create literal heaven and earth! Material creation existed long before Israel was ever given the Old Covenant.

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of my hand, establishing the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, 'You are my people.'

Who is God speaking to in Isaiah 1:1-2, "…Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth." The physical creation?

No, he is speaking to Israel. And who is the witness in Deuteronomy 4:26, "I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day"? Physical creation or Old Covenant Israel?
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jgr

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The cited article is centered only on Mid-Eastern peoples and not on all of humanity in general

"And indeed, the number of people in the world today with the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” is too large to count precisely. A reasonable estimate is in the hundreds of millions."

As of when did "people in the world" not include "humanity in general"?

neither is its focus specifically narrowed down to the line of Isaac. Furthermore, it seems that you have also overlooked the fact that Abraham also had a son named Ishmael from whom the Arabs claim descent.

Both Isaac and Ishmael are encompassed within the ubiquity range covering from about 1400 BCE back.

The scriptures do state that Abraham would be the father of many nations, which include more than just the Israelites, and the focus of that article was about scientific evidence for the fulfillment of that promise, but there is no claim that all of present day mankind is descended from Abraham. An estimate of "hundreds of millions" does not mean "billions" in which all of mankind is presently numbered.

"This would explain why we also find the CMH in high numbers among Arabs and other Middle Easterners today. These peoples traditionally claim to be the progeny of Abraham through his son Ishmael, who would also have to be carrying Abraham’s male genetic signature. These markers are also found among some southern Mediterranean and European peoples.

Besides the Jews, there are other populations that share the “Abrahamic Genetic Signature” as their primary Y-markers. These include Lebanese, Syrians, Druze, Iraqi Kurds, some southern and central Italians, and Hungarians. It is also found among some Armenians."

This article dates back over ten years ago when DNA testing was considerably less refined and extensive than it is today. Yet, ubiquity was already being recognized.

There is little doubt that the author's estimate of hundreds of millions ten years ago would be billions today.

Because "mixing events" never ceased.

 
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BABerean2

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Hello, the earth is still there after the second coming and during the 1000years of Christ reign on earth...

Revelation 20:4-6..."I saw thrones on which were seated those who had given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. I also saw those who had not worship the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years...(this only the righteous )

The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended...(unrighteous or sinners )

This is the first resurrection...

The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years...

Where is Christ reign with his people during the thousand years?

Rev 20:7-9
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth (second resurrection )-Gog and Magog- and to gather them for battle..

Verse 9...They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of Gods people, the city He loves...

Isn't this city refer to mount Zion the city of the living God...Hebrews 12:22,

Psalms 87:1,2

NB:

This earth is Not a NEW earth as yet...as it disappear according Rev 20:11...


You are making an assumption that the Book of Revelation is in chronological order.

Because we have "the time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, and Christ returns "as a thief" at Armageddon, in Revelation 16:15-16, we know the book is not in chronological order.


The city in Hebrews 12:22-24 is the heavenly New Jerusalem, which Paul said is now above in Galatians 4:26.

Revelation chapter 20 is full of symbolic language, and is symbolic of the Church Age.
The fire comes at the end of the chapter, which is the same as 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, where Paul described the Second Coming of Christ.

There are two resurrections in John chapter 5.
The first resurrection in the chapter is the spiritual resurrection from the dead found in John 5:24.
The second resurrection in the chapter is the bodily resurrection and judgment of the dead found in John 5:27-30.

We know Christ judges both the living and the dead at His return, based on 2 Timothy 4:1.


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jgr

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That is because Israel was formed from a bloodline, which you seem to make out as no longer existing.

You've apparently been missing the point entirely, because ubiquity means the diametric opposite and converse of "no longer existing".

It means "existing everywhere".

Paul still called them the children of promise counted for the seed (Rom. 9:8)

Galatians 4
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Paul ascribes the expression to the Galatian Church, comprised of both Jews and Gentiles without ethnic distinction, and representative of the NT Church to which all faithful and obedient believers belonged and belong.
 
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jgr

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The articles, informative as they may be, are irrelevant to this thread topic and would be more useful on a thread pertaining to the origins of the earth.

They are specifically relevant because Abraham is one of the qualifying ancient ancestors who is an ancestor of all present-day individuals.
 
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