Women's ultimate responsibility for world's sin

Maria Billingsley

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
I once thought that myself however when I read more closely I realized they were considered "one flesh" in the purest form.
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
 
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bèlla

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Yes, it is my opinion, as is every comment in the forum. Nor do I presume to know what you have experienced to cause you to call her comment repugnant.

I do not support any rhetoric that maligns either sex.
 
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AlexDTX

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I do not support any rhetoric that maligns either sex.
I didn't think so. I have read your other posts and consider you to be both well read and deeply thoughtful.
 
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bèlla

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I didn't think so. I have read your other posts and consider you to be both well read and deeply thoughtful.

Thank you for the compliment. Many Christian women reject biblical submission because its been misused by both sexes. I want to see each walking in the fullness of His blessings.

I may be called to craft beautiful clothing and home decor. But I love my sisters. Saved and unsaved. I will do all that I can to show them the light of His truth and repel those who threaten His divine design or pervert its beauty. :)
 
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JackRT

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Do you have references and evidence to support your claim? I have not heard anyone else make such a claim. If it were true, the pastoral epistles would not be in the canon of Scripture and should be placed in the body of the Pseudopygrapha.

Actually we would have do that with the Gospels as well since the names were only assigned to them about a century later and that based mostly on legend. The same is true of a few of the epistles as well.
 
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AlexDTX

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Thank you for the compliment. Many Christian women reject biblical submission because its been misused by both sexes. I want to see each walking in the fullness of His blessings.

I may be called to craft beautiful clothing and home decor. But I love my sisters. Saved and unsaved. I will do all that I can to show them the light of His truth and repel those who threaten His divine design or pervert its beauty. :)
As far as I am concerned, submission is mutual between a husband and wife.
 
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AlexDTX

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Actually we would have do that with the Gospels as well since the names were only assigned to them about a century later and that based mostly on legend. The same is true of a few of the epistles as well.
Again, references for your claims.
 
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A_Thinker

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
You can get a good sense of who's responsible for the fall ... by looking at God's judgement in the aftermath.

God judged and cursed ... Adam
God judged and cursed ... Eve
God judged and cursed ... the serpent

Ergo, they were ALL responsible ...
 
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Cherrein

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Apologies for not reading every post.

Very controversial topic! My take on it is that God spoke directly to Adam with clear instructions. He did not speak directly to Eve.

Eve heard the instruction through Adam.

A Word received directly from God is extremely powerful and Adam understood very clearly so there was no doubt and he was not able to be deceived.

Eve, on the other hand, was far easier to deceive (which is why Satan approached her) as she did not receive the Word directly from God, but from Adam.

Eve was deceived, Adam make a deliberate and conscious choice to disobey God and allow Eve to persuade him (under the deception Eve had that it was ok to eat the fruit). Adam was not deceived. His act was a choice and he knew it was wrong and did it anyway.

Then blamed Eve!
 
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JackRT

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Do you have references and evidence to support your claim? I have not heard anyone else make such a claim. If it were true, the pastoral epistles would not be in the canon of Scripture and should be placed in the body of the Pseudopygrapha.

The claim was: "Paul, at first, appears conflicted until we realize that the pastoral epistles (1 and 2 Timothy and Titus) were actually written pseudonymously some 60 years after Paul's death."

Modern analytical bible scholars have intensively studied the text of those epistles that are generally attributed to Paul. By closely examining vocabulary, grammar and thought themes they are in agreement that the following epistles are genuinely from Paul. They are 1 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Philippians, Philemon and Romans. Two more letters, Colossians and 2 Thessalonians are in dispute. Hebrews does not reflect Paul’s style and content whatsoever. Ephesians does not reflect the style of Paul but is very much Pauline in content and is thought to have been written by a close follower of Paul’s. The Pastoral letters (Titus, 1 Timothy and 2 Timothy) are attributed to Paul, but someone writing in Paul’s name wrote them around AD120, some 60 years after Paul’s death. Each letter uses vocabulary Paul is not known to have used; each has a different concept than Paul had of key matters such as faith; and each refers to Paul’s close friends Timothy and Titus in formal rather than friendly terms. They assume that Christian churches are governed by the kind of carefully organized authority structures that developed decades after Paul’s time. They are similar in style and in content and in the issues they raise. Scholars generally believe them to have been written by the same person. In addition two of Paul’s epistles are thought to be composed of what were originally several smaller letters. In particular Philippians is composed of three and 2 Corinthians is composed of six. Chapter 16 of Romans seems to be a later addition but genuinely by Paul.

John Dominic Crossan has provided a detailed classification of our sources for the historical Jesus according to the chronological stratification of the traditions. For a brief discussion of each source, including the reasons for its proposed dating, see John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus (HarperCollins, 1991) Appendix 1, pp. 427-50. All dates shown are C.E. (Common Era).


First Stratum [30 to 60 C.E.]

1. First Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians (late 40s)

2. Letter of Paul to the Galatians (winter of 52/53)

3. First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians (winter of 53/54.)

4. Letter of Paul to the Romans (winter of 55/56)

5. Gospel of Thomas I (earliest layer of Thomas, composed in 50s)

6. Egerton Gospel (50s)

7. Papyrus Vienna G. 2325 (50s)

8. Papyrus Oxyrhynchus 1224 (50s)

9. Gospel of the Hebrews (Egypt, 50s)

10. Sayings Gospel Q (50s)

11. Miracles Collection (50s)

12. Apocalyptic Scenario (50s)

13. Cross Gospel (50s)


Second Stratum [60 to 80 C.E.]

14. Gospel of the Egyptians (60s)

15. Secret Gospel of Mark (early 70s)

16. Gospel of Mark (late 70s)

17. P. Oxyrhynchus 840 (?80s)

18. Gospel of Thomas II (later layers, 70s)

19. Dialogue Collection (70s)

20. Signs Gospel, or Book of Signs (70s)

21. Letter to the Colossians (70s)


Third Stratum [80 to 120 C.E.]

22. Gospel of Matthew (90)

23. Gospel of Luke (90s)

24. Revelation/Apocalypse of John (late 90s)

25. First Letter of Clement (late 90s)

26. Epistle of Barnabas (end first century)

27. Didache (other than 1:3b2:1, 16:35) (end first century)

28. Shepherd of Hermas (100)

29. Letter of James (100)

30. Gospel of John I (early second century)

31. Letter of Ignatius, To the Ephesians (110)

32. Letter of Ignatius, To the Magnesians (110)

33. Letter of Ignatius, To the Trallians (110)

34. Letter of Ignatius, To the Romans (110)

35. Letter of Ignatius, To the Philadelphians (110)

36. Letter of Ignatius, To the Smyrneans (110)

37. Letter of Ignatius, To Polycarp (110)

38. First Letter of Peter (112)

39. Letter of Polycarp, To the Philippians, 1314 (115)

40. First Letter of John (115)


Fourth Stratum [120 to 150 C.E.]

41. Gospel of John II (after 120)

42. Acts of the Apostles (after 120)

43. Apocryphon of James (before 150)

44. First Letter to Timothy (after 120)

45. Second Letter to Timothy (after 120)

46. Letter to Titus (after 120)

47. Second Letter of Peter (between 125 and 150)

48. Letter of Polycarp, To the Philippians, 112 (140)

49. Second Letter of Clement (150)

50. Gospel of the Nazoreans (middle second century)

51. Gospel of the Ebionites (middle second century)

52. Didache, 1:3b2:1 (middle second century)

53. Gospel of Peter (middle second century)

The issue of womens' role in the church is not as clear cut as some people would want to think. The letters of Paul, which date to the middle of the first century AD, provide some clues. For example, Paul greets Prisca, Junia, Julia, and Nereus' sister, who worked and traveled as missionaries in pairs with their husbands or brothers (Romans 16:3, 7, 15) as equals and co-workers. Junia is praised as a prominent apostle, imprisoned for her faith. Mary and Persis are commended for their hard work (Romans 16:6, 12). Euodia and Syntyche are called his fellow-workers in the gospel (Philippians 4:2-3). Women were the leaders of house churches (Apphia in Philemon 2; Prisca in I Corinthians 16:19), Lydia of Thyatira (Acts 16:15) and Nympha of Laodicea (Colossians 4:15). Women held offices and played significant roles in group worship, such as the deacon Phoebe (Romans 16:1) and women were certainly praying and prophesying during worship (I Corinthians 11). An order of widows served formal roles of ministry (I Timothy 5:9-10). Women prophets included Mary Magdalene, the Corinthian women, Philip's daughters, Ammia of Philadelphia, Philumene, the visionary martyr Perpetua, Maximilla, Priscilla (Prisca), and Quintilla.
 
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A_Thinker

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Unfortunately, women are forced to continue bringing evil into this world. This happens quite simply, because every woman needs materialistic resources and exerts demands for it, in order to nest successfully. This female problem is further worsened by St Paul who suggests that child birth is the primary way to a woman's redemption. It seems contradictory that bringing in more sin is a woman's salvation. Interesting.
Do you really feel that men, in general, would be LESS aggressive and acquisitive ... if women weren't putting pressure on them.

Social studies seem to indicate that women are a civilizing influence upon men ...
 
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Neogaia777

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
Adam submitted to his wife... Happens all the time, he was weak and they are both to blame... but I ultimately hope it will turn out to be only the serpent that is primarily to blame... That saw this joint weakness in them and chose to exploit and take full advantage of it, as part of his or it's plans to, in time, overthrow God, etc... Or first man, then God, etc...

God Bless!
 
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A_Thinker

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Some interpret that passage as meaning, the mother won't die in child birth, which was a frequent danger. To think it means it is part of their salvation requirements is contrary to the Gospel.
Thank-you for this explanation.

Other interpretations have never made much sense to me.
 
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Swan7

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.

If you’re aiming for truth, you’re best truth teller would be God Himself rather than your own linear thinking- which we are all at fault with from time to time.

No. Sin was brought into the world through Satan. Eve only chose to listen to him rather than God and where was Adam in all of this? I’m sorry but pinning all sin in Eve just doesn’t fit the narrative. There’s a reason why there’s a lake of fire and why Satan will be in it, along with all his followers.

When you read Genesis, why did God not even spare Adam but cast out BOTH Adam and Eve from the garden of Eden?

I’m truly against this line of thinking because God is not for partiality, but Judges Righteously and gives equal measure in those Judgments. :glowingstar:
 
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Toro

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Adam was the head of his wife, not Eve his head.

IF Adam were the man he should have been, God would have been his head and he would not have followed his wife.

Eve had her blame in sin, Adam had his. Just as we all are not above our own sins without Christ so we are in no position to take Adam nor Eve by the throat as we all share in their flesh and in their choice by our nature without Christ.

Blaming Eve or Adam for our condition today is s cop out to blame someone else rsther than take responsibility for our own sins.... its easier to blame someone else.
 
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Chris35

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The problem with everything is that man / woman think they can solve the problem of sin by themself through rights and law. However all it really does is show us how much people are corrupted.

If there is no sin, there is no need for rights or law, until the world turns their hearts to Jesus, things will keep going much the same.
 
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Neogaia777

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I realize this won't be a popular post, but I'm aiming for truth, here, not the feelings of comfort or the approval of other people, so come what may.

When we really get down to it, every sin problem in the world points back to Eve. She ate the fruit. Adam wasn't deceived, but Eve gave him the fruit. She chose to know what evil was, and so now we have evil in the world because of woman.

With this in mind, I cannot ever support feminism, despite being female. Whatever sin, rape, murder, etc. happens to woman, we brought it on ourselves through the actions of our original ancestor. It makes no logical sense to demand rights, love, etc. when all the problems of evil/sin in the world were brought on by us in the first place. WE are the ones who brought this mess on humanity, not Adam/men. Every sin you see -- that's ultimately all on Eve, the woman.
Adam submitted to his wife... Happens all the time, he was weak and they are both to blame... but I ultimately hope it will turn out to be only the serpent that is primarily to blame... That saw this joint weakness in them and chose to exploit and take full advantage of it, as part of his or it's plans to, in time, overthrow God, etc... Or first man, then God, etc...

God Bless!
 
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JackRT

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You can get a good sense of who's responsible for the fall ... by looking at God's judgement in the aftermath.

God blamed and cursed ... Adam
God blamed and cursed ... Eve
God blamed and cursed ... the serpent

Ergo, they were ALL responsible ...

By looking at God's judgment in the aftermath (by actually reading the Bible) we discover that neither Adam or Eve were cursed. They were punished but not cursed. There were just two curses issued --- on the serpent and on the earth.
 
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